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Kimbop
Joined: 31 Mar 2008
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 Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:24 am Post subject: Re: The debate |
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| ESL Milk "Everyday wrote: |
Harper brought his on himself by going after their money. That's what started this whole thing-- he cut all spending by the parties. So tell me, how do you win an election or even keep people interested in an election if you have no money to campaign with? |
Alla forbid they would have to convince some of their supporters (*cough.. cough) to donate for the Liberal cause. How much did you donate to your party, eslmilk??
So tell me, "how do you win an election or even keep people interested in an election" when you have poor leadership and silly ideas? What happens is : you get the lowest Liberal support in 140 years, and very few donations.
| ESL Milk "Everyday wrote: |
Why? What exactly do you know about Dion that makes you think he's incapable of running the country? |
Hahahahahahaha!!! |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:58 am Post subject: |
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I reckon the right-wing is right and the Liberals just feel entitled to lead. They were going to take power regardless of the strings attached because they deserve power. Canadians made a poor choice and the Liberals would help them fix it.
I did not vote for the Cons in the last election and didn't vote prior to that. But I will absolutely 100% vote for the Conservative Party in the next election. |
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ESL Milk "Everyday
Joined: 12 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:12 am Post subject: Re: The debate |
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| Kimbop wrote: |
| Alla forbid they would have to convince some of their supporters (*cough.. cough) to donate for the Liberal cause. How much did you donate to your party, eslmilk?? |
This is about Harper trying to crush his enemies and using the economic crisis as an excuse to do it. You might think this is clever, but it's actually disgusting, undemocratic, and wrong.
| Kimbop wrote: |
| So tell me, "how do you win an election or even keep people interested in an election" when you have poor leadership and silly ideas? What happens is : you get the lowest Liberal support in 140 years, and very few donations. |
I'm not going to disagree that Dion couldn't pull his party together, but on the other hand, that wasn't necessarily because his ideas were silly, just untimely, and overly idealistic. He wasn't a visible minority so he couldn't use that as a platform (like Obama)... he could have pushed the economy angle, but held onto his carbon tax platform. Unfortunately, the economic crisis came along and suddenly nobody gives a shit about Global Warming anymore... combine that with his unfortunate physical appearance and the superficiality of the general public, and it's not necessarily a recipe for success.
BUT that doesn't mean he wouldn't have been capable of leading the country... just that he emphasized the wrong point during his campaign, and people got confused. He probably also shouldn't have given his political rivals such high positions within the party, and filled it with yes men instead. That's what Harper would have done.
| Kimbop wrote: |
| Hahahahahahaha!!! |
Wow, you sure got one over on me there. 'Hahahahahahaha!!!' is the smartest thing you've 'said' here, likely because it's the one instance where you're not actually trying to articulate ideas, and communicating instead in the sort of expression you're likely most accustomed to in your daily life. Such obnoxiousness flows so naturally from you it's actually really obvious why you have such an affinity for the PCs.
Point taken. |
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Kimbop
Joined: 31 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:28 am Post subject: Re: The debate |
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| ESL Milk "Everyday wrote: |
wasn't necessarily because his ideas were silly, just untimely, and overly idealistic. He wasn't a visible minority ... ....unfortunate physical appearance and the superficiality of the general public...
... people got confused. |
That was a great little speech! But instead of taking responsibility, you make excuses: "It's because Dion's a goofy looking nerd!" "It's because stuipid Canadians didn;t understand the green shift!" "It's because he's not black like Obama!" You should apply for a job with the CBC, or perhaps with Dion;s film crew!
I don't give a poop about your hero Dion or his silly tax plans! (And neither does the desperate Liberal caucus; plenty of shame there!) What you should be telling me is how happy you are to have Ignatieff as the new leader, and the great new ideas he brings with him. Now THIS I would lend an ear to.
Oh, and tghanks for the insults! Long live the green shift! And coalition too! Enjoy your prius! |
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peppermint
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| Dion might've made a great leader, in the same way that Al Gore might've. Unfortunately, they're both lacking in the charisma department. The fact that an incredible, electrifying election season was taking place in the US at the time, highlighted Dion's deficiencies, rather than his strengths. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Saw today that Dion's dog is named Kyoto. He might as well have named it Platitude. Such naivet� has no place leading a major nation. Though, it reminds me of the Peruvian economist Hernando de Soto, who named his two dogs Karl and Freddy, cause the dogs are German (setters), hairy and have no respect for private property. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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| supernick wrote: |
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Might as well just have the Queen run the country.
All hail the Queen and Master of Canada!!!
Viva colonial Canada!! |
She is prevented from running any country.
It seems that in recent years, Washington takes a leading role in running many countries, and South Korea is just one of them. Sure it looks like it's independent from the U.S. but who controls its military? Did you know that in South Korea, if there is a war, the U.S. takes the lead and their army falls under U.S. control. The U.S. is really much like the Imperialist of what G.B. was, and you're just sore that neither you nor the U.K has any control on Canada.
Maybe you should keep quiet for awhile as you are really making yourself look like a fool. |
What a poor defense.
Supernick, you've basically just admitted Jandar's point. Rather than assert a sober-headed counterpoint to Jandar's taunts, you attacked his nationality and things that his country has done.
Fail. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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Well, that and it was a stupid reply.
Starts with "who controls the ROK military" and then goes on to add the caveat "in wartime". Also I don't think he has put even 2 minutes research into the operational command situation/debate. Just a Canadian, talking shit. |
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ESL Milk "Everyday
Joined: 12 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Kimbop wrote: |
| That was a great little speech! But instead of taking responsibility, you make excuses: "It's because Dion's a goofy looking nerd!" "It's because stuipid Canadians didn;t understand the green shift!" "It's because he's not black like Obama!" You should apply for a job with the CBC, or perhaps with Dion;s film crew! |
So what, you think I should admit that he wouldn't have been able to lead because he didn't win? By that logic, George W. Bush was an amazing president, because he won twice. Then again, maybe you actually do think that W was a good president, and that his complete disregard for Global Warming, the war in Iraq, and the fact that he actually caused the worst global economic crisis since the great depression is perfectly okay, because that's what good leaders do... they win, and then they wreck everything.
| Kimbop wrote: |
| I don't give a poop about your hero Dion or his silly tax plans! (And neither does the desperate Liberal caucus; plenty of shame there!) What you should be telling me is how happy you are to have Ignatieff as the new leader, and the great new ideas he brings with him. Now THIS I would lend an ear to. |
Blind loyalty to a sports team, I could understand. But blind loyalty to a political party no matter who is running it or what their ideas are is a little shortsighted, wouldn't you say? Anyway, yes... Ignatieff doesn't look like a cartoon rat, and he knows how to play so he'll probably do better as leader. |
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Kimbop
Joined: 31 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Yawn. You're all over the map, dude...I'm not sure what you're trying to prove anymore. Dion is poo. But don't beleive me; ask anyone in his own caucus. Enjoy your prius. |
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CP
Joined: 18 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:10 pm Post subject: Re: The debate |
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| ESL Milk "Everyday wrote: |
| CP wrote: |
However, the coalition, in my view, is unethical at the time they did it.
A. They planned this coalition before the election even happened. It's obvious they planned it. Anyone who can't see it is blind. Why not tell the public their plan? Why hide it from everyone, if they thought it was a great idea? Why wait until now? All these years of not working together and all of a sudden in less than 6 weeks since the election the NDP and Liberals are buddies with the Bloc giving support. Come on. They knew they would not get a majority goverment so they waited to do it because they knew Canadians would have voted in a majority Conservative Government if they had known this plan. |
Harper brought his on himself by going after their money. That's what started this whole thing-- he cut all spending by the parties. So tell me, how do you win an election or even keep people interested in an election if you have no money to campaign with? That brought the parties together. Next, he illegally listened in on a private conversation that the NDP were having about a possible coalition, and then went to the media... so they didn't have much of a choice. Of course, after the idea of a coalition became public, that was the focus, not the fact that the PM had illegally listened in on a private conversation.
Two facts you need to get straight!!!
1. Cutting spending for all Federal Parties: Oh my God!!! Are the Liberals and the NDP so inept that they can't raise funding for their own parties? Why does the taxpayer have to pay to keep them afloat? Before you go on about equality for all Canadians and before you say the right is richer don't. Barrack Obama, the U.S. president elect, was able to raise his own money for his campaign against the big bad rich republicans. If he can do it why can't the Liberals and NDP do it in Canada?
2. The PM didn't illegally listen in on a conversation. When someone from the Conservative party is invited to the meeting they are free to tape any and all conversations legally and distribute them as he/she wants. Check Canadian Law if you like and you will find it.
| CP wrote: |
| B. Throw in the Bloc Quebecois who are now their buddies also. They say they will support this coalition. Why? What were they promised by the Liberals and NDP for this support, since they will not be part of the government? They will only "support" the coalition. Come on - they were given something huge as a bribe. What did they get? |
Like I said before, Harper went after their money in an attempt to permanently weaken their position, and of course, strengthen his own. Of course, after all this coalition talk, he's reversed his decision...
| CP wrote: |
| 5. Dion as PM? Layton as the Right hand man. Who in their right mind would trust these 2 to lead a country. Dion on the international stage would be a major catastrophe waiting to happen. |
Why? What exactly do you know about Dion that makes you think he's incapable of running the country? |
1. Dion can't speak English. Sorry if that sounds bad, but it's important. His English is so bad that most Canadians don't understand him at all and furthermore English is vital on the international stage. When he speaks in French it's excellent, but this just doesn't cut it in a country where 2/3rds of the people speak English. His English ability is a huge problem.
2. He doesn't even have the faith of his own party to run the party, let alone the country. If you have no confidence from your own party members how can you possibly lead a country where the people have no faith in you either?
3. Dion's performances in the House are weak. His inability to raise funds for his party is pathetic. His tax policy is horrendous. His environmental plans in theory sound nice, but he is not clear about how he will do it. His getting in bed with the NDP and Bloc is a contradiction to what he has said in the past.
Shall I go on? |
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supernick
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:11 am Post subject: |
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What a poor defense.
Supernick, you've basically just admitted Jandar's point. Rather than assert a sober-headed counterpoint to Jandar's taunts, you attacked his nationality and things that his country has done.
Fail. |
Really? Where did I attack his nationality? I mentioned actions and policies of the U.S. which are in many ways inline with policies of what G.B. at one time had under a monachy with power.
Jandar had no point, only taunts. I just felt that he needed to be reminded that QEII operates on certain rules, something that he seems to be totally unaware of.
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She is prevented from running any country.
It seems that in recent years, Washington takes a leading role in running many countries, and South Korea is just one of them. Sure it looks like it's independent from the U.S. but who controls its military? Did you know that in South Korea, if there is a war, the U.S. takes the lead and their army falls under U.S. control. The U.S. is really much like the Imperialist of what G.B. was, and you're just sore that neither you nor the U.K has any control on Canada.
Maybe you should keep quiet for awhile as you are really making yourself look like a fool. |
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Jandar
Joined: 11 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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But she can close down parliament with the stroke of a pen.
Facts are funny things.
Canadian are in denial over their royalist tendency.
God save the Queen of Canada.
Long live the Monarchy. |
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ESL Milk "Everyday
Joined: 12 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:12 pm Post subject: Re: The debate |
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| CP wrote: |
Two facts you need to get straight!!!
1. Cutting spending for all Federal Parties: Oh my God!!! Are the Liberals and the NDP so inept that they can't raise funding for their own parties? Why does the taxpayer have to pay to keep them afloat? Before you go on about equality for all Canadians and before you say the right is richer don't. Barrack Obama, the U.S. president elect, was able to raise his own money for his campaign against the big bad rich republicans. If he can do it why can't the Liberals and NDP do it in Canada? |
So basically, you think inequality is a good thing, and that the private interests of the rich should come before everything and everyone else. The Liberals need to forget about all these social programs, get rid of public health care, destroy the environment, and downgrade the education system so that they can promise some oil tycoon with a pharmaceutical company that he will get richer if he funds their rise to power. Also, let's get rid of the CBC because they're too liberal and that's a threat to us.
Then, we can work on that pesky border between us and the States, you know, that thing that's really interfering with Stephen Harper's presidency. Minority? What's a minority? He's the president of Canada! Canada's not going to go into recession! Let's take this opportunity to crush our enemies before they get stronger!
And exactly how long do you think your Green Party would last?
| CP wrote: |
| 2. The PM didn't illegally listen in on a conversation. When someone from the Conservative party is invited to the meeting they are free to tape any and all conversations legally and distribute them as he/she wants. Check Canadian Law if you like and you will find it. |
Oh, so the NDP voluntarily invited their political enemy to listen in on a conversation during which they discussed a coalition that would unseat the current government. Okay, makes sense. That must be why they want to press charges.
I'm not going to talk about Dion anymore... and anyway, it doesn't matter because he's out. But I do think he got a raw deal... the carbon tax was a good idea, and he probably thought it was worth fighting for. His biggest fault was not being enough of a politician to let it go and instead tell everyone what they wanted to hear. I still say if Bush hadn't ruined the world economy, Dion would have done a lot better with that platform. I mean, AT LEAST he believes in something beyond self-preservation.
Meanwhile, Stephen Harper and his party of conservatives revel in manipulating the lowest common denominator. They do it with such a smirky, cocksure swagger that it's actually embarrassing to see people regurgitating his rhetoric. I just want to grab them and say 'Don't you realize that he has no respect for you?!'.
Seriously, he's like this smarmy high school jock, with the retarded starstruck masses vying for the chance to be his sidekick. He walks up to generic redneck number 33446 and says 'Pffft... you really think some University Professor knows how to do my job? You and me, yeah, we know what's REALLY goin' on, don't we?', and the redneck goes 'Hey... yeah.... YEAH!'. |
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Jandar
Joined: 11 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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Harper is not the president.
However the Commander in Chief of Canada is appointed by the Queen herself and is a Viceroy (Vice Royal) in the person of the the Governor General of Canada who serves at the pleasure of the Queen.
By the Grace of God of the United Kingdom, Canada and Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith.
Ruled by a foreign sovereign, how sad. |
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