Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Rteacher]

Not much MMA action this past weekend, but there was the big Oscar de la Hoya - Manny Pacquiao boxing PPV and the finals of the K-1 Grand Prix tournament.

Since I'm in Korea, I'll do the K-1 fights first.

Neither Hongman Choi or Ray Sefo were actually in the finals, but they fought in the "first reserve" bout.

I figured that this was a bad match-up for the giant Korean - he seems to have the most trouble against short, strong guys with big punches (like Mighty Mo) - partly because he can't punch down at a sharp angle with much power at all.

Reportedly, Sefo prepared very hard for the fight by training with "Extreme Couture", and he was much more animated than he's been in recent fights.

Hongman was too stationary - and his head too big a target - to avoid being hit by most of Sefo's strikes, including spinning reverse punches and strong low kicks.

Nothing seemed to hurt him much, but he kept getting tagged while not being able to mount much of an offense.

Here's video:
http://www.mmatko.com/hong-man-choi-vs-ray-sefo-fight-video-k-1-world-gp-2008-final/

The Grand Prix championship match pitted Badr Hari against Remi Bojanski, and it had a bizzare ending.

After Bojanski scored a knockdown in the first round (winning it 10-8 on all cards) Badr Hari resorted to illegal rough-house tactics in the 2nd, grabbing his leg for a "take-down", followed by a couple punches and a stomp to the head while his opponent was still down.

Bojanski was given 5 minutes to recover (during which time Badr Hari and some of his rowdy backers kept taunting him) but he complained of double vision and said he couldn't continue. Since his injury was caused by a foul, he was given the win, and Badr Hari was disqualified.

Here's a recap:
http://mma.fanhouse.com/2008/12/06/badr-hari-disqualified-remy-bonjasky-wins-k-1-world-grand-prix/

Here's video (with I think Japanese commentary)
http://mma.fanhouse.com/2008/12/07/video-badr-hari-goes-crazy-punches-and-stomps-remy-bonjasky/

On paper, the de la Hoya - Pacquiao fight looked like a toss-up, with de la Hoya having a considerable edge in power and size, while Pacquiao had superior speed, youthful stamina, and an unorthodox southpaw style.

I think that Oscar's advantages were negated by his own mistakes and crafty strategy on the part of Pacquiao's Hall-of-Fame trainer, Freddy Roach, who had trained de la Hoya in his fight against Mayweather.

Roach accurately predicted an 8th round stoppage and intimated that he knew a secret that would nullify Oscar's best weapon - his left jab. According to some accounts, de la Hoya has had a partially torn rotator cuff, which may be why he abandoned the jab against Mayweather in the latter rounds of that fight, probably costing him the decision.

Moreover, to ensure that his guy wouldn't be outweighed by much at fight time, Roach stipulated that Oscar would have to pay $1 million for every pound over 147 at the weigh-in, and the fight would be canceled if he weighed 150 or more.

Instead of entering the ring up to 15 lbs. heavier (as expected by most analysts) de la Hoya came in looking light and didn't look nearly as strong as usual.

Although Oscar praised his current trainer (who has had a lot of success with Mexican fighters) it seemed like they weren't prepared to adjust to the strategy devised by Roach and executed masterfully by Pacquiao.

Actually, commentator Emmanual Steward - another great trainer who had formerly worked for de la Hoya - analyzed mistakes made by Oscar right from the start (such as keeping his right guard to the side of his face instead of in the middle to protect against Manny's sucker lead lefts and not taking a step back to give himself punching room...)

Steward said that, knowing Oscar, he doubted that he would be able to make the necessary adjustments, and he would continue to weaken while Pacuiao would steadily get stronger.

Promoter Bob Arum wants Ricky Hattan next, and Manny said he would like that, but the seemingly inevitable big fight down the road figures to be Pacquiao-Mayweather.
http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=17339

UFC's Dana White, probably hopeful Pacquiao doesn't become as big a pay-per-view draw as de la Hoya has always been - called the bout a "bad day for boxing"...
http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=17349

Here's video in English:
http://www.wazzupmanila.com/pacquiao-vs-de-la-hoya/[/url]

[roknroll]

i saw the remy/badr fight twice and i have to say that remy looked more like a soccer player taking a dive.

of course, bad-r lost it and punched him while he was down and the ref had already signalled a halt, then he goes on to give him a head stomp (had to fight around the ref to do it). so undoubtedly, he deserved to lose that round.

however, remy played it to the hilt and was rolling around like his ribs were broke. if you look at both the punch and kick he took, neither was anything near what a k1 fighter (or any martial artist) is used to taking and can stand up to. you mentioned about the eye problems but i didn't see his trainers checking his eyes, which is quite important to do if you care about your fighter.

it would've been quite interesting to see a third round. the only thing that doesn't make me really angry about the stoppage is that there was probably a high probability that bad-r would've done something as equally dirty/illegal if they continued.

did u see the glare he gave remy after the first round ended? it wasn't the typical psyche out stuff, it looked like pure hatred. also, what do you think "set off" bad-r? the only thing i could see is that after bad-r landed the fists, remy was attacking his lower leg---so that coupled with his rage after the first is all i can think of. also, i'm not aware of any pre-fight hype or the history between them at all.

[Rteacher]

Well, I think they work for rival groups in Holland, and Bojanski snapped Badr Hari's winning streak by beating him by decision in the quarterfinals at the Grand Prix last year.

Remi did appear kind of wimpish, but reportedly he has had medical problems with that eye, and I'm inclined to accept that he was experiencing double-vision - certainly a valid reason to retire from the bout.

I doubt that he's a good enough actor to shed tears the way he did over not being able to continue.

One possible factor that may help explain Badr Hari's bizarre behavior is the notoriously lax drug-testing policies in Japan (especially with PRIDE - maybe K-1 is more strict...)

[roknroll]

found some info here.
http://www.mat-magazine.com/mat/content/view/6108/2/

i'm sure he did have some difficulty with his eye (from what point in the fight, who knows) but you'll be hard pressed to find another reaction like that to an eye injury. i thought it was some part of his body must've got busted up or something. also, the way he peered up to see what was happening with the ref, then proceeded to 'milk' it some more. i also viewed the aftermath as over-compensating (also looked a bit shifty-eye) but that's just my perception.


He gives a good reply in the link:

-- Well, he said he thought you were 'acting' . . .
The only thing I can say about that is that if he'd respected the rules we could have fought normally and decided in the fight who was the best. If he thinks I was acting, let me kick him in the head when he's down and we'll see if he's acting or not.

of course, this definitley trumps any possible acting cus if bad-r didn't lose it, the fight would've continued. if remy couldn't continue, then it would've been bad-r's fight.

K1 basically backed him up and made mention of bob sapp problems before. remy says he thinks he should be punished financially--got a chuckle out of that---he lost a potential 400,000 and had to settle for 30,000 second place prize.

[samcheokguy]

I can't imagine the abuse an arab opens himself up to by stepping into a ring and saying HIT ME!

[manlyboy]

I don't think Bonjasky's injuries occured as a result of the foul play. He was already hurt before Badr Hari decided to go all MMA on him, and he used the foul as a get-out. They should have called it a no-contest.

Pac Man's strategy had little to do with his victory. From the first round it was quite evident that no matter what strategic approach either guy took, it was going to be about as competitive as a drive-by shooting.

[mzeno]

Remy milked it to the fullest, but it was Badr that blew it. I think he was pissed because Remy tried to take his head off earlier with a kick that barely missed as Badr was falling to the canvas. Up to that point, it was a really great fight. It looked like Badr could've won fair and square.