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Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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crossmr
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul
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 Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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Those are just a few things that come to mind. |
all of it vaguely worded and completely unverifiable..."a number of.." zero is a number.. |
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jkelly80
Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Location: you boys like mexico?
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Articulating a criticism on the internet is not the same thing as Gandhi's march to the sea--I think we all realize that. That being said, it's not a useless endeavor. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| jkelly80 wrote: |
| Articulating a criticism on the internet is not the same thing as Gandhi's march to the sea--I think we all realize that. That being said, it's not a useless endeavor. |
I learned so much from whining, bitching, upset FTs on Dave's when I decided to quit and get a new job in Korea. Were it not for them, I likely would have barely got through my first year, gone home or to another country, and then badmouthed Koreans for being mostly pig-headed morons you should never work with or for any time the subject of Korea came up. Fortunately I was able to relocate and see a very different side of Korea while leaving my employer with much loss of face to him. Thanks, Dave's whiners. |
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Bucheonguy
Joined: 23 Oct 2008
Location: Bucheon
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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On the current topic, if it wasn't for this website and the open criticism I totally would have gone crazy and thought I was the only one who felt like this. If you ask me it really saved me.
Back to lack of integrity, I think that you can't gage it. I think it just seems like they lack integrity because it's so blatent to us, I mean all the lying, cheating and scamming. Now imagine you grew up here. These people don't see it. It's double think. Take a Korean and take them to Canada or the US and I'm sure they'll see our lack of integrity clearer too. I think what we should all do is take a look at what we see go down here and then take a closer look at our own countries with a fresh perspective. We my think our homes are better but it's just a matter of what we're used too.
Total trade of. Here, they may constantly back stab eachother to get to the top, but, they aren't going and bombing middle of nowhere defenceless thirdworld countries. They also don't sue eachother at the drop of a hat. They see us as having the lack of integrity. Both sides are right, the problem is, our own population and their own population refusing to accept the fact that both of countries are corrupt. |
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Mr-Dokdo
Joined: 16 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:02 am Post subject: |
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| So, then, why do Koreans lie so much, shaft people on contracts, and screw foreigners for every won they can get. Oh, and international studies of foreign business-people giving bribes overseas show Koreans to be a leader in that dubious activity. Why? |
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coffeeandmilk
Joined: 23 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:30 am Post subject: |
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| jkelly80 wrote: |
| I'm not a huge fan of the Korean way of doing business or their feeble "it's our culture" excuses, but to say that "Koreans lack integrity" is a little harsh. |
Yes, and more than a little true. Sometimes the truth is harsh. |
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crossmr
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:41 am Post subject: |
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Just to upset you. |
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jkelly80
Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Location: you boys like mexico?
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:49 am Post subject: |
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| crossmr wrote: |
Just to upset you. |
You really don't have a point, beyond being contrary. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:29 am Post subject: |
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| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Mr-Dokdo wrote: |
| [. We are trying to help Korea help itself. Why don't you join us in that noble undertaking? |
Because it's not your place to do so. And how does complaining on a message board in some obscure corner of the Internet accomplish change?
I've been on here since 2001. Back then there were a number of foreigners who were also trying to change Korea, or so they claimed. Guess what? It's still the same way. Until Koreans decide to change, it will remain the same. And the opinions of FTs will have the same weight in that change as they do now...zero.
And there's a fair chunk of the FT community which isn't in much of a position to be lecturing the Koreans on integrity. |
Really? Last year I was talking to a Korean who had come back after being away for nine years. He said he couldn't believe how much things have changed.
Well I was talking about the treatment of teachers. Actually though you are correct. It has changed... it's gone downhill.
Also, if our opinions matter so little, why do some Koreans get so irate and offended about them (take LP's Seoul Guidebook, for instance)? |
Can you list an issue where the opinions of FOREIGN TEACHERS have made a change in Korea's laws? |
At a few universities foreigners have been able to change hiring practices in some departments and curricula. Foreigners are also responsible for weeding out and no doubt scaring off a number of fraudulent academics. A few foreigners have successfully challenged and manipulated Korea's investment visa restrictions and have been able to open up a few foreign-owned hagwons. A number of foreigners have successfully challanged employment conditions and frightened other employers from violating them. I have no doubt that the opinion of FTs has contributed to various government pronouncements that all KETs must conduct classes in English starting in 2008 / 2010 / 2012 / 2015 (of course the reality is very different but it's still a MoE regulation).
Those are just a few things that come to mind. For far less than 0.1% of the population I'd say that's proportional. The long-term subtle influences of teachers on their students also can't be discounted. Every teacher who enforces the rule of law in their classroom is contributing toward a future society that may as well. |
Unfortunately NONE of the things you listed above can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. These hiring practises...will they be changed long-term? These academics...which FOREIGN TEACHER weeded them out? If you meet visa investment conditions...well that's hardly an foreign teacher's OPINION now is it? Which employers have been frightened? There are literally hundreds of present-day contracts on the contract sticky thread most of which violate Korean labor law up the yin-yang.
And it was my understanding that MOE regulation had been revoked for now due to opposition.
But just to prove my point. If FT's opinions were so important and most Koreans cared, why do so many of us get ripped-off and cheated and lied to? |
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legalquestions
Joined: 25 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:35 am Post subject: |
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Oh, I just remembered another glaring example of Koreas lack of integrity: the current president, Lee Money Bags, stated just before the election last year that he would donate all of his huge personal fortune (except for his house) to charity if elected.
But that campaign promise got brushed under the carpet very quickly once he went into office by a landslide.
Haha, Koreans and their lack of integrity! |
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