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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Location: retired
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Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:20 pm Post subject: Re: The debate |
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| ESL Milk "Everyday wrote: |
| CP wrote: |
Two facts you need to get straight!!!
1. Cutting spending for all Federal Parties: Oh my God!!! Are the Liberals and the NDP so inept that they can't raise funding for their own parties? Why does the taxpayer have to pay to keep them afloat? Before you go on about equality for all Canadians and before you say the right is richer don't. Barrack Obama, the U.S. president elect, was able to raise his own money for his campaign against the big bad rich republicans. If he can do it why can't the Liberals and NDP do it in Canada? |
So basically, you think inequality is a good thing, and that the private interests of the rich should come before everything and everyone else. The Liberals need to forget about all these social programs, get rid of public health care, destroy the environment, and downgrade the education system so that they can promise some oil tycoon with a pharmaceutical company that he will get richer if he funds their rise to power. Also, let's get rid of the CBC because they're too liberal and that's a threat to us.
Then, we can work on that pesky border between us and the States, you know, that thing that's really interfering with Stephen Harper's presidency. Minority? What's a minority? He's the president of Canada! Canada's not going to go into recession! Let's take this opportunity to crush our enemies before they get stronger!
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The above is a platitude wrapped in a straw-man then drenched with hysterical nonsense.
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Seriously, he's like this smarmy high school jock, with the retarded starstruck masses vying for the chance to be his sidekick. He walks up to generic redneck number 33446 and says 'Pffft... you really think some University Professor knows how to do my job? You and me, yeah, we know what's REALLY goin' on, don't we?', and the redneck goes 'Hey... yeah.... YEAH!'.
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So, I assume high school was tough on you?
Anyways, it seems Iggy has more sense than esl types. |
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supernick
Joined: 24 Jan 2003 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:24 am Post subject: |
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| Starts with "who controls the ROK military" and then goes on to add the caveat "in wartime". Also I don't think he has put even 2 minutes research into the operational command situation/debate. Just a Canadian, talking shit. |
Just an example about how one country has some control over another. There are many more examples.
As for a person who says that QEII has control or can run Canada or any other country is really talking out of a hole between their buttocks. Maybe that person is the one who should do some research.
My point is simple; that the present day U.S. excercises a great amount of control over some countries, much more than QEII. |
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supernick
Joined: 24 Jan 2003 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:37 am Post subject: |
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| Ruled by a foreign sovereign, how sad. |
No. She reigns but she does not rule.
As I have said before, she is not allowed by law to rule in any country. |
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ESL Milk "Everyday
Joined: 12 Sep 2007
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Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:25 am Post subject: |
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Harper's 'war zone' tactics are the reason that the coalition exists. Because of this, all of his mistakes, hang ups, and obsessive-compulsive power plays are fair game.
He really did want to cut spending to the CBC because it's 'too Liberal'-- he's already started by denying public funding to any artistic expression that is deemed 'offensive' by his government, loosely defined enough so that he could, if he so desired, pick and choose what gets said and what doesn't. This is true.
He has already started informing national legislature with his archaic views on gay marriage and womens' rights-- and actually seems to actively support less pay and fewer rights for women in the workplace. A cause worth defending, of course.
He has publicly denied that Canada would ever go into a recession so that his slap-in-the-face budget might seem more acceptable. A few months later, the Bank of Canada says 'Canada is in a recession'.
He seems determined to reform or eliminate the senate, mostly due to the fact that there are so many Liberals in the senate. Before you say 'he wants to save money' or 'he wants to keep things democratic', keep in mind that he wants to either eliminate the senate completely (ie: decrease the Liberal influence) or make it a requirement that all senators be elected (elections are expensive). Given he doesn't seem to care whether it's the option that costs more money OR the option that saves money, it would seem to suggest that he is far more interested in doing WHATEVER HE CAN to increase his own power.
I'm convinced that he really would like to see Canadian political parties more dependent on big business for their campaign revenue, likely because this compliments his own ideological agenda.
Less public funding for political parties would mean all parties necessarily inviting more private interests into their decision-making processes, so that regardless of what party holds power, the way is paved for increasing privatization, looser definitions of civil rights, and huge cuts to public programs. This would seem to compliment the PC agenda perfectly, and it would force the Liberals and the NDP (also the Bloc and the Greens) to radically alter their entire political identity, so as to not scare off potential investors... and so that they may attract and romance big money as a matter of basic survival. This may come as a surprise to you, but the majority of additional campaign revenue is not from concerned voters... it comes from the wealthy elite.
Public funding for political parties isn't about 'paying' for the opposition's campaign, it's about paying for the ability to make at least a semi-informed decision between parties which are actually distinct from each other. And preserving options which aren't as corrupted by private business interests.
I'm not defending the coalition here (I do think it would work, just not now), just explaining the reasons behind its existence-- it's not an out-and-out undemocratic power grab, there is a very real justification for it. On the other hand, defending Harper is just flat-out wrong.
Ignatieff on the other hand is going to back out of the coalition. I'm all for stability, and hopefully Harper has learned his lesson. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Location: retired
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Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:51 am Post subject: |
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| supernick wrote: |
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| Starts with "who controls the ROK military" and then goes on to add the caveat "in wartime". Also I don't think he has put even 2 minutes research into the operational command situation/debate. Just a Canadian, talking shit. |
Just an example about how one country has some control over another. There are many more examples.
As for a person who says that QEII has control or can run Canada or any other country is really talking out of a hole between their buttocks. Maybe that person is the one who should do some research.
My point is simple; that the present day U.S. excercises a great amount of control over some countries, much more than QEII. |
Who said that?
You were just talking shit. The operational command situation is extremely complicated. |
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supernick
Joined: 24 Jan 2003 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 7:21 am Post subject: |
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Jandor wrote:
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Harper is not the president.
However the Commander in Chief of Canada is appointed by the Queen herself and is a Viceroy (Vice Royal) in the person of the the Governor General of Canada who serves at the pleasure of the Queen.
By the Grace of God of the United Kingdom, Canada and Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith.
Ruled by a foreign sovereign, how sad. |
mises wrote:
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Who said that?
You were just talking shit. The operational command situation is extremely complicated.
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All types of military command is complicated. If I was wrong in my post, then correct it. Just saying that I'm talking shit is uncalled for. You might have thought that one comment was directed at you, but it wasn't. Read again, I responded to your post, and then went on to "As to the person..." That would be another person and not you. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| supernick wrote: |
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What a poor defense.
Supernick, you've basically just admitted Jandar's point. Rather than assert a sober-headed counterpoint to Jandar's taunts, you attacked his nationality and things that his country has done.
Fail. |
Really? Where did I attack his nationality? I mentioned actions and policies of the U.S. which are in many ways inline with policies of what G.B. at one time had under a monachy with power. |
How is KORUS-SOFA relevent to the Queen of Canada? Even if it were, its highly et tu quoque.
Can you justify the Queen of Canada's role in Canada without referring to the USA?
I think I could. Hell, I think I have. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Location: retired
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Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:24 am Post subject: |
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| ^ That is exactly why I said it was talking shit. Canadians always do that. He could have referenced China in XingJang or Russia in any number of places, or Rwanda in Congo etc. But that would take a wider depth of knowledge than skimming the CBC headlines permits. |
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Jandar

Joined: 11 Jun 2008
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Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| supernick wrote: |
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| Ruled by a foreign sovereign, how sad. |
No. She reigns but she does not rule.
As I have said before, she is not allowed by law to rule in any country. |
Among the powers possessed by the monarch in the United Kingdom under the Royal Prerogative are:
* The appointment and dismissal of ministers;
* The dissolution of parliament and the calling of elections;
* Clemency and pardon;
* The award of dignities and honours;
* The declaration of war;
* The declaration of an emergency;
* The grant of Charters of Incorporation;
* The minting of coinage;
* The issue and revocation of passports;
* The expulsion of a foreign national from the United Kingdom;
* The creation of new common law courts;
* The creation of new universities;
* The appointment of bishops and archbishops in the Church of England;
* The printing of the authorised Church of England version of the Bible;
* The publication of all statutes, legislative instruments and Orders-in-Council; existing and new
* The exercise of jurisdiction over numerous Royal foundations of all kinds;
* The appointment of Royal Commissions and Officers for any purposes;
* The choice of the numbering of monarchs (See MacCormick v. Lord Advocate)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Prerogative
The Queen of Canada, you can't deny it, she rules. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Location: Retired
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Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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| ESL Milk "Everyday wrote: |
He has already started informing national legislature with his archaic views on gay marriage and womens' rights-- and actually seems to actively support less pay and fewer rights for women in the workplace. A cause worth defending, of course.
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Link please. |
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supernick
Joined: 24 Jan 2003 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 1:53 am Post subject: |
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[quote]How is KORUS-SOFA relevent to the Queen of Canada? Even if it were, its highly et tu quoque.
Can you justify the Queen of Canada's role in Canada without referring to the USA?
I was responding to an American, so I used a U.S. example. |
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supernick
Joined: 24 Jan 2003 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 2:31 am Post subject: |
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* The appointment and dismissal of ministers;
* The dissolution of parliament and the calling of elections;
* Clemency and pardon;
* The award of dignities and honours;
* The declaration of war;
* The declaration of an emergency;
* The grant of Charters of Incorporation;
* The minting of coinage;
* The issue and revocation of passports;
* The expulsion of a foreign national from the United Kingdom;
* The creation of new common law courts;
* The creation of new universities;
* The appointment of bishops and archbishops in the Church of England;
* The printing of the authorised Church of England version of the Bible;
* The publication of all statutes, legislative instruments and Orders-in-Council; existing and new
* The exercise of jurisdiction over numerous Royal foundations of all kinds;
* The appointment of Royal Commissions and Officers for any purposes;
* The choice of the numbering of monarchs (See MacCormick v. Lord Advocate) |
All symbolic.
What you didn't include from your link was:
While prerogative powers were originally exercised by the monarch acting alone, and do not require parliamentary consent, they are now always exercised on the advice of the Prime Minister or the Cabinet, who is then accountable for the decision to Parliament
If Canada and a dozen other countries want to remove their British monarch, a quick and easy vote would be all it takes. No war. No deaths.
As QEII said:
�I have always made it clear that the future of the monarchy in Australia is an issue for you, the Australian people, and you alone to decide by democratic and constitutional means. It should not be otherwise,� the Queen said during a State visit to Australia in 2000. |
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Jandar

Joined: 11 Jun 2008
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Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| supernick wrote: |
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* The appointment and dismissal of ministers;
* The dissolution of parliament and the calling of elections;
* Clemency and pardon;
* The award of dignities and honours;
* The declaration of war;
* The declaration of an emergency;
* The grant of Charters of Incorporation;
* The minting of coinage;
* The issue and revocation of passports;
* The expulsion of a foreign national from the United Kingdom;
* The creation of new common law courts;
* The creation of new universities;
* The appointment of bishops and archbishops in the Church of England;
* The printing of the authorised Church of England version of the Bible;
* The publication of all statutes, legislative instruments and Orders-in-Council; existing and new
* The exercise of jurisdiction over numerous Royal foundations of all kinds;
* The appointment of Royal Commissions and Officers for any purposes;
* The choice of the numbering of monarchs (See MacCormick v. Lord Advocate) |
All symbolic.
What you didn't include from your link was:
While prerogative powers were originally exercised by the monarch acting alone, and do not require parliamentary consent, they are now always exercised on the advice of the Prime Minister or the Cabinet, who is then accountable for the decision to Parliament
If Canada and a dozen other countries want to remove their British monarch, a quick and easy vote would be all it takes. No war. No deaths.
As QEII said:
�I have always made it clear that the future of the monarchy in Australia is an issue for you, the Australian people, and you alone to decide by democratic and constitutional means. It should not be otherwise,� the Queen said during a State visit to Australia in 2000. |
Symbolic shymbolic it is what it is.
You have a Queen her agent in the person of the viceroy, Governor General, has the power to suspend the Parliament.
The same Queen added seats to your Senate not so long ago to strengthen the PMs position.
Stop denying it, you have a Queen, an active Queen with Royal Prerogatives, a Monarchy.
It's the 21st century, wake up and smell the coffee, oh Canada.
Glorious with Queen.
(If it takes a simple vote then do it.)
(Remember she is the Commander in Chief it's her majesties army her majesties navy.)
All hail Her Majesties Canada. |
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supernick
Joined: 24 Jan 2003 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 2:26 am Post subject: |
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| You have a Queen her agent in the person of the viceroy, Governor General, has the power to suspend the Parliament. |
At the request of Parlaiment.
If at any time, the Queen had a motion against an elected parliament, it would result in the removal of the Queen as the head of state. That I am sure would happen in the UK and in Canada.
There are some safeguards to having a constitutional monarchy that protect democracy. There are rules in which parliament operates, and those rules also apply to the monarchy. |
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Jandar

Joined: 11 Jun 2008
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Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 3:05 am Post subject: |
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| supernick wrote: |
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| You have a Queen her agent in the person of the viceroy, Governor General, has the power to suspend the Parliament. |
At the request of Parlaiment.
If at any time, the Queen had a motion against an elected parliament, it would result in the removal of the Queen as the head of state. That I am sure would happen in the UK and in Canada.
There are some safeguards to having a constitutional monarchy that protect democracy. There are rules in which parliament operates, and those rules also apply to the monarchy. |
Motion against Parliament, hell she shut it down on the PMs request.
No motion no nothing suspended to avoid the no confidence vote.
It's like an old wool coat that you just can't throw out
so you use it for the dogs bed.
Except when no ones lookin' you put it on just around the house (when the PM wants to suspend Parliament) when the wife's not home.
Come on Canada you can do it, throw out that old wool coat, the dog doesn't even need it any more.
It's just embarassing and it makes you smell like dog. |
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