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ManintheMiddle
Joined: 20 Oct 2008
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 Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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bang bayed at the moon:
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| Whether he's the first or not, doesn't make it weird. Islam recognises Jesus as a prophet. |
Yes, but pointedly as a lesser prophet than the great whoremonger Mohammed.
Ahmadine-jihad is one world leader who sorely needs a bullet to the head. Oh, gosh, gee, I'm sorry. Was that too brutish for you Big Bird? |
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Neil
Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Location: Tokyo
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| Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:55 am Post subject: |
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List of Alternative message presenters
* 2005 - Jamie Oliver |
Now you've put it into context, I think we got off lightly this year. |
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bangbayed
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 7:08 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| bangbayed wrote: |
| Islam recognises Jesus as a prophet. |
Absolutely. The penultimate prophet, to be precise.
What does this have to do with my point here? |
The point at the time seemed to be that you thought it unusual for Ahmadinejad to be citing Christ. I just pointed out that it does not seem to be unusual for a Muslim to be citing a prophet of Islam (co-opted by Mohammed or not).
| Man on the Fence wrote: |
| Yes, but pointedly as a lesser prophet than the great whoremonger Mohammed. |
greater, lesser, whatever - besides the point. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 9:09 am Post subject: |
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| Bangbayed: But you did not respond my point; and I doubt that you even read it in the first place. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Bangbayed: But you did not respond my point; and I doubt that you even read it in the first place. |
As far as I can tell, your point was that it's odd for a Muslim extremist to be citing Jesus. But I'm still not convinced that that is any odder than a Christian extremist citing the Old Testament prophets. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 9:22 am Post subject: |
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Oh, I just saw this...
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| Sure, On the Other Hand. But also a propagandist aiming to justify his jihad. Listen, to make this simpler: Islamic extremists, in my view, spend virtually no time asking themselves "what would Jesus do?" in their everyday spiritual lives -- especially where they engage in unmitigated violence against others, strap suicide bombs onto themselves, etc. When they do, such as Imadinnerjacket and your Osama bin Laden, they do so dishonestly and manipulatively. No more no less |
If you're saying that because Muslim extremists engage in wanton violence, they must be insincere when they cite the pacifist Jesus, I think that betrays a certain naivety on your part. Christians have cited Jesus directly for many centuries to justify violence.
And yes, you're right, Muslims probably don't ask themselves about what Jesus would do, for the same reasons that Christians don't ask themselves what Ezekial or Isaiah would do. Those prophets are not THE central figure of their religion. But that doesn't mean they're wouldn't quote from them now and then.
I agree that a Muslim is probably more likely to cite Jesus when addressing a Christian. Which makes me wonder about Saddam's citation in his letter to the troops. I'm curious if that was a dog-whistle to Christians in the Iraqi army.
Last edited by On the other hand on Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:24 am; edited 2 times in total |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| And by the way, that whole "What would Jesus do?" thing is a fairly recent discourse, and more specific to protestantism. Catholic theology is less focussed on copying behaviour directly from the Bible. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:35 am Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
| As far as I can tell, your point was that it's odd for a Muslim extremist to be citing Jesus. But I'm still not convinced that that is any odder than a Christian extremist citing the Old Testament prophets. |
You love your analogies. I do not know if the analogy you cite here is odd, but say for the sake of argument it is. The fact that both of these examples seem odd does not undermine my point, either.
Muslim extremists tend to cite the Prophet and the Koran. Imadinnerjacket is playing games for propagandistic effect. He wants to unite as many people behind him in his, he believes, righteous mission to develop a vast, nuclear-armed Iranian sphere-of-influence in the Middle East premised on Israel's destruction and America's complete withdrawal from world affairs as he can get.
And Channel Four apparently wants to help him communicate his message. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:37 am Post subject: |
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Do not get lost in anything that Saddam ever said. Saddam's first, last, and only allegiance was to the Church of Saddam. Very straightfoward. Nothing to understand here. He exploited every opportunity he could every time he addressed anyone. Typical secular politician, really -- dictator or not.
| On the other hand wrote: |
| And by the way, that whole "What would Jesus do?" thing is a fairly recent discourse, and more specific to protestantism. Catholic theology is less focussed on copying behaviour directly from the Bible. |
But I did say I was offering that in simplistic style to better get my basic message across. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:57 am Post subject: |
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Do not get lost in anything that Saddam ever said. Saddam's first, last, and only allegiance was to the Church of Saddam. Very straightfoward. Nothing to understand here. He exploited every opportunity he could every time he addressed anyone. Typical secular politician, really -- dictator or not.
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Yeah, I think we agree about this. Saddam was putting Jesus in his message in order to tailor it to a certain audience. I'm not sure why you think I'm "lost" in Saddam's statements. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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| I did not direct that warning, of course, at you personally, On the Other Hand. Just a general caveat since Saddam's remarks do appear on this thread. No one ought to take them at face-value. No more no less. |
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RJjr
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Location: Turning on a Lamp
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| Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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Ahmadinejad's speech was tailored to resonate with a predominately Christian audience before he laughs with his generals in private and says, "Phuck Jesus, who do we bomb next?"
Should we be surprised that Ahmadinejad tried this stunt when Bush has fooled so many for so long (even some in this thread) with the same bullshit? |
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bangbayed
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| RJjr wrote: |
Ahmadinejad's speech was tailored to resonate with a predominately Christian audience before he laughs with his generals in private and says, "Phuck Jesus, who do we bomb next?"
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe the last country that Iran bombed was Saddam's Iraq. |
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bangbayed
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
| Gopher wrote: |
| Bangbayed: But you did not respond my point; and I doubt that you even read it in the first place. |
As far as I can tell, your point was that it's odd for a Muslim extremist to be citing Jesus. But I'm still not convinced that that is any odder than a Christian extremist citing the Old Testament prophets. |
Exactly. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| bangbayed wrote: |
| RJjr wrote: |
Ahmadinejad's speech was tailored to resonate with a predominately Christian audience before he laughs with his generals in private and says, "Phuck Jesus, who do we bomb next?"
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe the last country that Iran bombed was Saddam's Iraq. |
Try Israel 2006, via Hezbollah. |
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