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for lifters - question/advice re sticking point(s)
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bogey666



Joined: 17 Mar 2008
Location: Korea, the ass free zone

PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:13 am    Post subject: for lifters - question/advice re sticking point(s) Reply with quote

there is a ton of advice on this online obviously and in various books and journals, blah blah blah, but I am curious what has worked for YOU (real life testimonial)

I strongly suspect I'm at a bench sticking point and it's much lower than it should be, frankly.

I "look" far stronger than I am, but admittedly I stick to a bodybuilding rather than more of a powerlifting regimen, for a variety of reasons though obviously I'd always welcome a chance to get a lot stronger.

clearly, trying a powerlifting approach to blast thru this point is one "obvious" suggestion.

but I'm curious/anxious to hear yours.

for a broad outline of my workout.. assume I do each body part twice every eight days... and for e.g. re chest, I'll do probably 16 sets, 6-8 reps per set.

this approach has always worked very well UNTIL I reach this magical weight level which is basically my "historical high", which now I'd love to blast thru.
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okokok



Joined: 27 Aug 2006

PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're hitting a 'historical high' most likely not because of how you train but because of your calorie intake. You can't expect your body to grow/get stronger while giving it the same amount of fuel. If you want to break through your sticking point, up your calories by 300-500 and keep your eye on the results. If you see yourself adding fat, drop the calories down a bit. If you are getting stronger and want more results in time, up the calories again. Make sure the calories you add are quality ones..... lean protein and complex carbs for the most part.

As far as training goes, if you're trying to increase something like bench press, it can be beneficial to focus on your triceps for a while since it can make a difference. Adding creatine to your routine will also give you a boost in strength. But in the end, nothing will do the job better than just simply eating more.
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bogey666



Joined: 17 Mar 2008
Location: Korea, the ass free zone

PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmm. interesting. (not worried about being under strenth in tris or shoulders)

I have been consistently trying to keep my calories down.... aka trying to get bigger and fat cutting as the same time.

yeah, it's quite difficult.

but creatine or certainly whey protein is an excellent suggestion

(though all research says creatine helps you by say 7-8%, not much more )

given I don't want to fatten up... protein powder is an excellent starting point.
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sharkey



Joined: 12 Oct 2008

PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

first of all, dont use supplements.. theyre garbage and only make you strong for a short period of time.

maybe if you want to increase your bench press, work on your triceps more

and instead of doiing 6-8 reps, take it up to 10-12 reps, but with just a bit less weight, should give you more stamina and power after a little while.

and if you really want to enlarge your chest badly, i would say to do at least 3 sets a day of chest, even when its not chest day. but then you run into the problem of having an over developed chest.
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bogey666



Joined: 17 Mar 2008
Location: Korea, the ass free zone

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sharkey wrote:
first of all, dont use supplements.. theyre garbage and only make you strong for a short period of time.

maybe if you want to increase your bench press, work on your triceps more

and instead of doiing 6-8 reps, take it up to 10-12 reps, but with just a bit less weight, should give you more stamina and power after a little while.

and if you really want to enlarge your chest badly, i would say to do at least 3 sets a day of chest, even when its not chest day. but then you run into the problem of having an over developed chest.


I'm not too "big" on supplements, I think their effect is mainly placebo, but that's not a bad effect to have.

re your last approach, that wouldn't overdevelop your chest, it would underdevelop it.. your muscles need time to recuperate.. each time you lift you break muscle tissue, only to have it regrow bigger and stronger.
they need the time/opportunity for the latter. Only with roids can you just hammer them like that and I don't do roids.

a note on the food ... if one extends this argument to its logical conclusion it fails credibility. Ergo, if one must keep eating more to lift more, then there's a quasi linear relatinship between calories consumed and power/strength and we know that's not quite the case -- there's a link but it's not that "linear".
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sharkey



Joined: 12 Oct 2008

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="bogey666"]
sharkey wrote:


re your last approach, that wouldn't overdevelop your chest, it would underdevelop it.. your muscles need time to recuperate.. each time you lift you break muscle tissue, only to have it regrow bigger and stronger.
they need the time/opportunity for the latter. Only with roids can you just hammer them like that and I don't do roids.



dont do heavy weight, just light weight .. and i honestly think that is a myth. if you work that muscle everyday, its going to grow, no questions
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bogey666



Joined: 17 Mar 2008
Location: Korea, the ass free zone

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well bodies and results are HIGHLY individualistc things.

but your approach of often and light runs COMPLETELY against conventional lifting wisdom Very Happy
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sharkey



Joined: 12 Oct 2008

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bogey666 wrote:
well bodies and results are HIGHLY individualistc things.

but your approach of often and light runs COMPLETELY against conventional lifting wisdom Very Happy


agreed, I would try it if your style isnt working, but I think it is key to do at least 10 reps . best of luck... and dont forge those triceps !
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caniff



Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't listen to sharkey, bogey. He wants you to ruin your body.
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Thunndarr



Joined: 30 Sep 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="sharkey"]
bogey666 wrote:
sharkey wrote:


re your last approach, that wouldn't overdevelop your chest, it would underdevelop it.. your muscles need time to recuperate.. each time you lift you break muscle tissue, only to have it regrow bigger and stronger.
they need the time/opportunity for the latter. Only with roids can you just hammer them like that and I don't do roids.



dont do heavy weight, just light weight .. and i honestly think that is a myth. if you work that muscle everyday, its going to grow, no questions


Wow. That is some amazingly bad advice.

1. Doing a million reps of light weight won't help you increase a given lift as much as doing fewer reps of heavier weight.

2. Basic physiology, you need excess calories to grow. Your body needs a minimum amount of protein just to maintain muscle mass, and carbs and fat for energy and nutrition requirements. Guess what? If your body is using all your protein, carbs, and fats on maintenance, there isn't enough left over for growth.
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sharkey



Joined: 12 Oct 2008

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Thunndarr"]
sharkey wrote:
bogey666 wrote:
sharkey wrote:


re your last approach, that wouldn't overdevelop your chest, it would underdevelop it.. your muscles need time to recuperate.. each time you lift you break muscle tissue, only to have it regrow bigger and stronger.
they need the time/opportunity for the latter. Only with roids can you just hammer them like that and I don't do roids.



dont do heavy weight, just light weight .. and i honestly think that is a myth. if you work that muscle everyday, its going to grow, no questions


Wow. That is some amazingly bad advice.

1. Doing a million reps of light weight won't help you increase a given lift as much as doing fewer reps of heavier weight.


who said a million reps ? i said 2 more reps a set with a little less weight, which will , with time, enable him to lift the same amount of weight he is doing for 6-8

youre advice is stupid, never conform !!!!
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Thunndarr



Joined: 30 Sep 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="sharkey"]
Thunndarr wrote:
sharkey wrote:
bogey666 wrote:
sharkey wrote:


re your last approach, that wouldn't overdevelop your chest, it would underdevelop it.. your muscles need time to recuperate.. each time you lift you break muscle tissue, only to have it regrow bigger and stronger.
they need the time/opportunity for the latter. Only with roids can you just hammer them like that and I don't do roids.



dont do heavy weight, just light weight .. and i honestly think that is a myth. if you work that muscle everyday, its going to grow, no questions


Wow. That is some amazingly bad advice.

1. Doing a million reps of light weight won't help you increase a given lift as much as doing fewer reps of heavier weight.


who said a million reps ? i said 2 more reps a set with a little less weight, which will , with time, enable him to lift the same amount of weight he is doing for 6-8

youre advice is stupid, never conform !!!!


1. It's your. (I only point that out because you claimed that *I* was stupid.)

2. Regarding conformity...You know, there is a reason people gravitate towards certain kinds of lifting routines over time. It's because they work. I'll conform every day if it means I'm getting the results I want.

3. I notice how you didn't address the part about nutrition. You know, I suspect you know I'm right, which I find amusing, because my attitude is a very conformist attitude.
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NaD00D00



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Gimpo

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you tried taking some time off (a week to a month, depending), and totally revamping your workout? Maybe new exercises, orders, numbers of sets/reps, etc.?
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sharkey



Joined: 12 Oct 2008

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Thunndarr"]
sharkey wrote:
Thunndarr wrote:
sharkey wrote:
bogey666 wrote:
sharkey wrote:


re your last approach, that wouldn't overdevelop your chest, it would underdevelop it.. your muscles need time to recuperate.. each time you lift you break muscle tissue, only to have it regrow bigger and stronger.
they need the time/opportunity for the latter. Only with roids can you just hammer them like that and I don't do roids.



dont do heavy weight, just light weight .. and i honestly think that is a myth. if you work that muscle everyday, its going to grow, no questions


Wow. That is some amazingly bad advice.

1. Doing a million reps of light weight won't help you increase a given lift as much as doing fewer reps of heavier weight.


who said a million reps ? i said 2 more reps a set with a little less weight, which will , with time, enable him to lift the same amount of weight he is doing for 6-8

youre advice is stupid, never conform !!!!


1. It's your. (I only point that out because you claimed that *I* was stupid.)

2. Regarding conformity...You know, there is a reason people gravitate towards certain kinds of lifting routines over time. It's because they work. I'll conform every day if it means I'm getting the results I want.

3. I notice how you didn't address the part about nutrition. You know, I suspect you know I'm right, which I find amusing, because my attitude is a very conformist attitude.


to be honest on the nutrition part, I dont diet or eat properly. I eat what I want, when i want, even its complete garbage for me. I dont really follow meals, proteins or any of that stuff. I find, if I go to the gym consistently i dont need to eat properly. Im sure it would be better for me , and i admit this. But, I am not serious about lifting, i go 5 times a week, and i follow no routine, i dont write sets down.. etc etc.. i dont even try to get that much stronger. I just go , have fun, and get the results i want. I think the main reason i dont care about nutrition is because last winter i broke my foot playing hoops, sat on my ass in front of my computer screen for about a month, ate like complete shit (pizza, ice cream, chips, whatever really) and dropped 10 pounds. I just have one of those lucky metabolisms.
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bogey666



Joined: 17 Mar 2008
Location: Korea, the ass free zone

PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi guys, appreciate the feedback

no I really haven't tried much manipulation YET.. but I will if this "sticking point" holds of course.

I was trying to elicit feedback in order to decide what kind of manipulation should take place, that's all.

and don't worry caniff, I appreciate sharkey's input but I'm quite old school when it comes to lifting.. (Arnold's Encyclopedia remains the Bible)
so I will definitely try more weight, less reps, the TRADITIONAL approach over his unconventional one.

and yeah.. I will tinker with the diet again.
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