|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
|
 Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:59 am Post subject: ROK's version of Dr. Doom arrested |
 |
|
http://www.rjkoehler.com/2009/01/08/breaking-news-minerva-arrested/
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.01de0792b3f19228add5bcb4091ef37c.691&show_article=1
| Quote: |
The arrest of a popular South Korean Internet financial pundit sparked a heated debate on Friday over how much freedom of speech should be tolerated in cyberspace.
State prosecutors arrested the commentator, identified only as Park, on Thursday on charges of spreading "groundless" allegations that the country's currency, the won, was imperiled.
Park, who uses the alias Minerva, has caused ructions over the past few months with more than 200 postings about the country's financial woes and the global economic crisis.
Hong Jun-Pyo, parliament leader of the ruling Grand National Party, accused Minverva of "maliciously" distorting the facts while rights campaigners rallied to back the pundit.
"This is seriously infringing upon freedom of speech. The government should immediately stop its move to gag the people," said civil liberties group the Council for Public Welfare and Democracy.
"This may be the first case of restricting freedom of expression in the name of banning groundless Internet rumours," Koh Young-Chul, a Jeju National University professor, told Yonhap news agency.
"This is a typical case showing our democracy going backward," opposition legislators said in a statement.
Minerva was rumoured to be a retired financial market worker with a foreign degree.
But prosecutors said he was in fact a jobless man whose knowledge about foreign exchange markets was acquired entirely through self-education after graduating from a two-year community college course.
On Friday a court in Seoul is reviewing a request from prosecutors to bring charges against him.
Minerva drew a large Internet audience with postings that accurately predicted the collapse of Lehman Brothers in September, the won's sharp depreciation and the local stock market crash.
His writings irritated authorities with their sharp criticism of the government's economic policy and its intervention in the foreign exchange market.
On December 29, Minerva said the government had forced key financial institutions and exporters to stop buying dollars, in order to prop up the won. The government issued an angry denial.
|
Some background:
http://www.economist.com/world/asia/displayStory.cfm?story_id=12783609&source=hptextfeature
| Quote: |
False god?
Dec 11th 2008 | SEOUL
From The Economist print edition
An online Nostradamus, and the search for his identity
BACK in September a message appeared on an online bulletin board owned by Daum, the most popular web host in a country, South Korea, with a huge internet culture. Written by someone called �Minerva�, it predicted the imminent collapse of Lehman Brothers, a now-defunct investment bank.
Wild speculation is normally disregarded, but when it proved to be right just five days later, a prophet was born. Word raced through the �netizen� community, and when Minerva went on to predict that the Korean won would fall against the dollar by around 50 won a day in the first half of the week of October 6th, his followers began to watch the currency markets in anticipation. The won did indeed fall by about that much over the next three days.
Minerva became an internet phenomenon, with 40m-odd hits to date. Web-users combed through previous posts, looking for prognostications, and clues about his identity. Sharp comments on the state of the Korean economy and government policy only increased his standing. The media now call him �the Internet Economic President�.
Click here
The administration of President Lee Myung-bak is frequently accused of authoritarianism by opponents, so it came as little surprise when the finance minister, Kang Man-soo, admitted that officials had attempted to uncover the blogger�s identity. Some people believe him to be a senior figure in a financial firm. Others think he may even be a civil servant undermining the government from inside. All Minerva has revealed is that he is a man in his 50s.
With the government on his tail, the Minerva case is no longer just about economic prescience. As one equity analyst in Seoul puts it, �The real issue about Minerva is the government�s action�we are not in the 1970s or 1980s!� During that period South Korea was ruled by a military dictatorship, and freedom of speech curtailed.
For now, given the state of Korea�s economy�the central bank slashed rates again this week�Minerva�s identity has taken a back seat to his more recent predictions. He says the KOSPI 100 stockmarket index, now over 1,000, will drop to 500, and the value of flats in Seoul will fall by half. Such a bearish prospect may appear outlandish but, unlike Cassandra, Minerva has many believers. |
If the Koreans are going after internet rumours, half the country will be arrested... Imagine if Peter Schiff or Roubini was arrested in the US. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
Hong Jun-Pyo, parliament leader of the ruling Grand National Party, accused Minverva of "maliciously" distorting the facts while rights campaigners rallied to back the pundit.
|
For anyone who thought that the rise of the Grand National Party would lead to a more open and democratic society... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Troll_Bait
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: [T]eaching experience doesn't matter much. -Lee Young-chan (pictured)
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:17 pm Post subject: Re: ROK's version of Dr. Doom arrested |
|
|
Numbers are mine.
[1] Malice goes to intent. How do they know that he had bad intentions, as opposed to trying to warn or inform people?
[2] The fact that he's self-educated, and only has a two-year community college degree, and yet has shown more knowledge and insight that the hordes of zombie drones graduating from Seoul National University, Yonsei University, etc., is really freaking people out.
Didn't Bill Gates leave college? Didn't Einstein work in a patents office while working on his theories? Didn't Newton gain great insight from watching an apple fall to the ground? Benjamin Franklin never graduated from Boston Latin School and was self-educated. In Korea, all of these people would have been looked down on. It's no wonder that he chose the Internet, where not he, but only his ideas, would be scrutinized. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
SEOUL (AFP) � South Korea's arrested popular Internet financial pundit Saturday denied spreading false information online but a court extended his detention period.
The 31-year-old, identified only as Park but better known as "Minerva", the Greek goddess of wisdom, claimed he was trying to help those who had suffered as a result of the current financial turmoil
|
http://tinyurl.com/a8rpoa |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Um, gee, if the economy DOES go into a massive IMF-style meltdown ... are they going to arrest all the other guys who are saying that things are going to work out all right? Shall we assume malice on their part as well?
Hey, I just had a thought: if a tv weather report predicts a massive storm, can hotels and recreation concerns demand jail time as recompense for their loss of revenue?
The free-speech argument is obvious here, as are the reasons we have free speech: arresting people for sincerely-held opinions - and I agree that malice needs proof - leads to a world where we can only talk happy talk. Sometimes what we hear is going to be something we don't want to hear, but if you don't like the news, go out and make some of your own ...
Having said that, there is a certain cowardice involved in making dire statements while cloaked in internet anonymity, and I can't find any route to respecting that. People should know your background and qualifications if you are spreading words around that encourage them to change their behavior, especially when fear is one of the motivators. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Having said that, there is a certain cowardice involved in making dire statements while cloaked in internet anonymity, and I can't find any route to respecting that. People should know your background and qualifications if you are spreading words around that encourage them to change their behavior, especially when fear is one of the motivators. |
From what I've read, the strongest case against the guy would probably be this...
| Quote: |
On December 29, Minerva said the government had forced key financial institutions and exporters to stop buying dollars, in order to prop up the won. The government issued an angry denial.
|
If Park did make the allegations, and they were indeed false, then that goes a bit beyond simply giving an opinion. Still not sure if it's something that should be illegal, though. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| On the other hand wrote: |
| Quote: |
On December 29, Minerva said the government had forced key financial institutions and exporters to stop buying dollars, in order to prop up the won. The government issued an angry denial.
|
If Park did make the allegations, and they were indeed false, then that goes a bit beyond simply giving an opinion. Still not sure if it's something that should be illegal, though. |
It shouldn't be illegal. The whole point of defamation is that you're broadcasting a falsehood you know to be untrue (or are ambivalent concerning the truth of). But we are immunized from defamation cases concerning public officials because: a) anything concerning their fitness for office is a public matter, b) public officials may use public channels to rebut the claims.
But Korean Law has a truly miserable and backwards understanding of defamation. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The guy stated an opinion as a fact and when the government denied it, he said they were liars. His actions caused problems in the market.
It looks like there is at least room for a legal investigation. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
| No, at any point you have opinions from every corner of possible opinions in a market. That is what a market is (the aggregation and dissemination of information). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
| mises wrote: |
| No, at any point you have opinions from every corner of possible opinions in a market. That is what a market is (the aggregation and dissemination of information). |
Right. If I start a thread on Dave's about how I think there is going to be a flu pandemic next year, and as a result of reading that you go out and blow your retirement savings on pharmaceutical stock that subsequently goes south, I don't imagine that I can be arrested for what I wrote. Even if it were proven that I had misrepresented myself as being physician and was making it all up as I went along.
But I wonder: does anything change if I present my predictions as investment advice? Like, if I say "There's going to be a flu pandemic next year, so now is a good time to go out and buy shares in pharmaceutical companies that manufacture vaccines". Does the addition of the italicized clause alter the legality of the sentence in any way? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I don't know anything about Korean securities laws as it pertains to that. But to the most loose extent possible, all voices need to be heard for a market to function properly. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hater Depot
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
| On the other hand wrote: |
| But I wonder: does anything change if I present my predictions as investment advice? Like, if I say "There's going to be a flu pandemic next year, so now is a good time to go out and buy shares in pharmaceutical companies that manufacture vaccines". Does the addition of the italicized clause alter the legality of the sentence in any way? |
As I understand US law, it would depend on the context. If you were just extemporaneously writing on Dave's, then even if you misrepresented yourself as an investment advisor you are likely in the clear. But if you were answering someone's question, or had a website set up, you may be in trouble.
Of course here I should say I'm not a lawyer yet and am not in any way offering you legal advice. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| If you were just extemporaneously writing on Dave's, then even if you misrepresented yourself as an investment advisor you are likely in the clear. |
Wasn't Minerva basically just posting on a message board, or something similar to that?
| Quote: |
BACK in September a message appeared on an online bulletin board owned by Daum, the most popular web host in a country, South Korea, with a huge internet culture. Written by someone called �Minerva�, it predicted the imminent collapse of Lehman Brothers, a now-defunct investment bank.
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hater Depot
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Yes, and as far as I know he never advocated specific investment decisions. That would leave the only substantive charge being deliberately lying about an act of government. If the case goes to court I would expect the government to lean heavily on the judge since it strikes me as a thin reed on which to rest its case. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| mises wrote: |
| No, at any point you have opinions from every corner of possible opinions in a market. That is what a market is (the aggregation and dissemination of information). |
Opinions are one thing. An accusation of lying is another.
| Quote: |
If I start a thread on Dave's about how I think there is going to be a flu pandemic next year,....
|
I think a better comparison of what the guy did:
Next year the government is going to deliberately release germs in the drinking water to cause a pandemic. When the government denies they will do this, you can be assured they are lying. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
