Korean Job Discussion Forums

[meursault]

I just had my EPIK interview. I had listed Busan as my first choice (only because Incheon is apparently full), but my interviewer sounded skeptical that I would get it (I'm still waiting for my letter of recommendation). He even "added" Chungbuk to my list--which made me feel rather anxious.

Now, I realize that most people on this forum strongly prefer public schools, but I'm beginning to think I should go the hagwon route after all. I'm planning on taking the LSAT (for law school) in Seoul this year and I really wanted to teach in/around the city. And the idea of making more than the measly 1.8M EPIK offers is also appealing. I'd do my research, but I'm obviously terrified of being cheated by an unscrupulous hagwon director.

What do you think?

[marlow]

Well, I'm not going to go recommending Busan EPIK. Because they feel desirable, their respect for teachers is going down the tubes.

[Yu_Bum_suk]

The EPIK crapshoot is much preferable to the hagwon crapshoot, but if you do your research carefully you might be able to get an academy in Seoul or Busan that's a better bet than either.

[Perceptioncheck]

IMO, Public schools are not all they're cracked up to be.

If you're the only whitey, it can be quite isolating and lonely as many of the teachers may be shy or may not speak much English. I believe this is especially true of rural and/or elementary schools. If you're at a school that's both rural AND elementary, be prepared to start having long conversations with yourself.

Having a co-teacher can also be a bit of a crap-shot. Mine is unfortunately one of the craaaazy ones and it takes a lot of patience and tongue-biting to get through just one working day with her. This is mainly because her teaching methodology is crap, she has the social graces of a tree-frog and is constantly butting heads not only with me but with pretty much every other member of the teaching staff. I can only assume this is because she is a bitter, insecure and fundamentally evil old crone. However, it can go both ways; I have another co-teacher who is ace.

Yes, your school is unlikely to go bankrupt or fire you at the eleventh hour but this doesn't mean there aren't issues when it comes to payment. It took me five months of nagging to get my plane ticket refunded. This was because there were "too many numbers" on my perfectly legit and easy-to-read invoice. I have also had ongoing issues with non-payment for after school classes.

I have friends who are incredibly happy at their public schools. They have experienced none of the same problems as me. Some of them are on their second contract and some of them are even on their third. However, I also have known people who have had similar problems to me and even pulled runners from public schools within months of arriving because public schools did not keep their promises about schedules, resources and the availability of co-teachers.

Some people on this board will have you believe that public schools are The Answer to employment issues in Korea. I would contend that this is often not the case and it really depends on your placement.

[nate2008]

Okay so here's the thing: Hagwons will offer you maybe 2.1m at most, depending on your credentials. So that's an extra 300k per month, best case scenario.

In a hagwon, you will be teaching an average of maybe 4-6 hours per day. And this is actual TEACHING time, not just time that you are there. I currently work in a public school, and I have actual teaching time of MAYBE 3 hours per day, often times not even that. 2 days per week, every week, I have 2 classes of 45 min apiece, for a total of 1.5 hours of teaching. It's glorious.

And on top of that, for the months of January to March, us public school have basically 2 months off (unless you are desk warming, in whch case you are probably watching movies all day or reading or whatnot, but still not teaching). Guess what my hagwon friends are doing all day? TEACHING! As a hagwon worker, you will get your contracted vacation days, nothing more; as a public school teacher, you will get TONS of time off most likely.

So you have the following question to answer: Is all of the extra bonuses that you will get by working at a public school worth the extra 200-300k per month that you will get by working at a hagwon? Not to mention the security that comes by working for a government institution, rather than a potentially corrupt private business.

Personally, I strongly recommend first-timers work in a public school. If you want to be in/near Seoul, go through GEPIK. I promise you they will find an opening; there are ALWAYS openings in Seoul.

[oldtactics]

Wait, so you're willing to give up on the entire EPIK program just because you might not get Busan? There's a whole country out there, you know...

[Perceptioncheck]

[afsjesse]

Public schools are far better than most hagwon gigs. I live in rural Gyeongbuk and its nice. I'm bored all of the time.

If you went to a hagwon, make sure you take nothing less than 2.2! This is the new starting salary for alot of places these days for newbs. It really depends on what your want out of experiences here in K-land.

If you're in it for the $$$ than hagwon may be better, but with more risks. In PS alot of them offer you over time and other incentives such as camps. Some are paid and other aren't, which is the case for me.

In the end I demand to be treated with some sort of "respect". Whatever that means in this country. I'd recommend EPIK. And BTW, Chungbuk isnt that bad and not too far from Seoul compared to Busan.

Suerte,
Jesse

[misschel]

I can feel where the OP is coming from. Busan was my first choice for schools, and it`s my first time coming to Korea. (I`m also going to be going down the LSAT road in the next few years as well).

Unfortunately, 1.8 million won isn`t up to par when I`m getting offered 2.2-2.3 elsewhere. Granted it is through a private institute, but I`m doing my research and I understand the risks involved. I`ve also opened my options up to Gwangju and there seem to be some gems there!

I figure I`m taking a risk by going over to teach anyway, I may as well just go for a private gig if it feels right and hope for the best.

Yes, I know to some ole timers around here this sounds naive, but like I said I have been researching and reading this forum board for over a year. I prefer to think of it as thinking positively!

[nicam]

I would not do EPIK given the chance again.

Check these threads out:

http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=142328&highlight=

http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=142556

[Toon Army]

[marlow]

[danseonsaeng]

My thoughts:

I work for SMOE.

I teach 22 hours a week, but those are 45 minute hours. That amounts to 16.5 hours per week of actual work. I teach five hours on Monday, five on Tuesday, and three a day for the rest of the week. When I'm not working, I'm desk warming, sure, but since when was having free time at work a bad thing? I use the time effectively - I study Korean, I write e-mails, I prep for classes, I lesson plan ahead of time, I read, I chat with my friends, I nap, I take a walk, I write, I do things that matter.

And this has been said to death, but since no one seems to remember I'll say it again - SMOE employees get a ridiculous amount of time off work, and I'm not talking about public holidays or paid vacation. Whenever there's an event, festival, test or some other random thing, we get the day off. Some of those days are spent at work and some aren't (depends on your relationship with the administration). Considering all the holidays, the half days, and the days off from work entirely...I probably worked an average of 12 full hours a week last semester.

Yes, we're required to teach camps during the summer and winter vacations, but camp can be as easy or as strenuous as you want it to be. Camp is a breezy three hours a day for three weeks with kids who (for the most part) wanna be there. After that, you're free to use your vacation (21 days) to knock off the remainder of the time before school starts up again. I'm doing camp until the 19th, going home from the 21st to the 3rd, then I've got class from the 5th to the 10th, then I'm on vacation until March. Remind me how many days paid vacation the hagwon folks get?

There's some truth to the complaints about public schools. You could end up with a crappy apartment in a crappy part of town. You could end up working a crappy school with crappy students and a crappy staff, but c'mon, did you really expect to move across the world, entirely out of your comfort zone, away from family, friends and everything familiar, and not experience some hardship? Did you really get into teaching for the apartment? Did you really think the kids (no matter how disciplined or educated) were gonna roll over and let you pat their bellies without a bit of a struggle? Teaching's hard no matter the resources or environment.

I apologize for the tone, but I hear a lot of BS from folks on this board about what a drag it is to work for the public school system. A serious question - how whiny and pampered are you that you would complain about a free apartment, free airfare, 21 days paid vacation a year, 16.5 hours of work a week, and desk warming? Aside from those too-good-to-be-true university gigs you hear about once a decade, working for SMOE is one of the easiest, most enjoyable, most emotionally and spiritually (in the non-Christian sense of the word) fulfilling jobs available in the world of ESL.

But, no, I think you should work a hagwon gig.

[nicam]

The OP is considering EPIK, yes?

EPIK does NOT give 21 days of vacation like SMOE and GEPIK, they give 14, which isn't much better than most hagwons.

A lot of schools and POEs will make sure that you work EVERY day aside from your alloted time off, in which case it may not be worth it to deal with the longer hours and utterly chaotic and futile PS learning environment, not to mention the smaller salary.

[danseonsaeng]

has the OP considered working with SMOE?