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Before coffee, most people were drunk
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mindmetoo



Joined: 02 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:14 am    Post subject: Before coffee, most people were drunk Reply with quote

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=98947092

An NPR guest, who was on to talk about William Priestly, noted something interesting. Beer and wine were consumed daily and in quantity for much of our modern history. It was safer than water. Parasites could not live in beer (news to Hite drinkers but whatever) or wine. The end effect is much of society in the west was drunk most of the day. It may not be a coincidence, then, that the enlightenment coincided with the popularity and introduction of coffee (and tea) to the west. You have to boil the water. It kills parasites as well as making your coffee delicious. The well to do, with the money and time to do science, started to drink coffee, sobered up, and started to notice there existed a natural world.
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okokok



Joined: 27 Aug 2006

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why would anybody want to sober up?
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sojourner1



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Location: Where meggi swim and 2 wheeled tractors go sput put chug alugg pug pug

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Germany! Bier maestros. They are the puritans of beer since antiquity. They make the natural good beer that is drank anytime. Traditionally in Germany, people drink the world's best beer instead of water or anything else, because they can due to it being natural. Today, people can't drink bier like that all the time since they have to work in a high tech world where they have to pay attention and be sober, but people still have a great time regularly in the bier gartens.

My ancestors all Getr�nk bier instead of water, soda, and soju. Today, I drink mostly water, juice, no soju, and only German or microbrew beer sometimes. Water is my main liquid of choice and Florida OJ the 2nd. German Bier is 1st when it flows though.
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michaelambling



Joined: 31 Dec 2008
Location: Paradise

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 10:31 am    Post subject: Re: Before coffee, most people were drunk Reply with quote

mindmetoo wrote:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=98947092

An NPR guest, who was on to talk about William Priestly, noted something interesting. Beer and wine were consumed daily and in quantity for much of our modern history. It was safer than water. Parasites could not live in beer (news to Hite drinkers but whatever) or wine. The end effect is much of society in the west was drunk most of the day. It may not be a coincidence, then, that the enlightenment coincided with the popularity and introduction of coffee (and tea) to the west. You have to boil the water. It kills parasites as well as making your coffee delicious. The well to do, with the money and time to do science, started to drink coffee, sobered up, and started to notice there existed a natural world.


I'm sure that was a factor. Also, the culture around coffee was one of discussion, debate, and conversation--this is why I love coffee and everything about it. See: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6VB6-4S02TH6-2&_user=10&_coverDate=04%2F30%2F2008&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=8794a24229884682c02c11b13d20950f
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djsmnc



Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:26 am    Post subject: Re: Before coffee, most people were drunk Reply with quote

mindmetoo wrote:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=98947092

An NPR guest, who was on to talk about William Priestly, noted something interesting. Beer and wine were consumed daily and in quantity for much of our modern history. It was safer than water. Parasites could not live in beer (news to Hite drinkers but whatever) or wine. The end effect is much of society in the west was drunk most of the day. It may not be a coincidence, then, that the enlightenment coincided with the popularity and introduction of coffee (and tea) to the west. You have to boil the water. It kills parasites as well as making your coffee delicious. The well to do, with the money and time to do science, started to drink coffee, sobered up, and started to notice there existed a natural world.



Then what happened in the Islamic world?
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mindmetoo



Joined: 02 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Before coffee, most people were drunk Reply with quote

djsmnc wrote:
Then what happened in the Islamic world?


Fundamentalism. The Islamic world used to be quite advanced. A large number of the stars we know by name (eg Rigel, Deneb, Aldebaran, etc.) were named by Islamic astronomers. They were quite advanced in math and astronomy, notably during the dark ages. And they were probably sober. However, they lost their edge by getting drunk on the religion opiate.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Before coffee, most people were drunk Reply with quote

mindmetoo wrote:
djsmnc wrote:
Then what happened in the Islamic world?


Fundamentalism. The Islamic world used to be quite advanced. A large number of the stars we know by name (eg Rigel, Deneb, Aldebaran, etc.) were named by Islamic astronomers. They were quite advanced in math and astronomy, notably during the dark ages. And they were probably sober. However, they lost their edge by getting drunk on the religion opiate.


Islam and Science do not mix because of Occasionalism.

Occasionalism

Quote:
Occasionalism is a philosophical theory about causation which says that created substances cannot be efficient causes of events. Instead, all events are taken to be caused directly by God Himself. (A related theory, which has been called 'occasional causation', also denies a link of efficient causation between mundane events, but may differ as to the identity of the true cause that replaces them).[1] The theory states that the illusion of efficient causation between mundane events arises out of a constant conjunction that God had instituted, such that every instance where the cause is present will constitute an 'occasion' for the effect to occur as an expression of the aforementioned power. This 'occasioning' relation, however, fell short of efficient causation. It was not that the first event caused God to cause the second event: rather, God first caused one and then caused the other, but He chose to regulate such behaviour in accordance with general laws of nature.


Occasionalism prevailed with Al-Ghazali, who won the theological battle against more reason friendly philosophers Al-Farabi and Ibn Sina. Occasionalism is beyond mere fundamentalism: it is the absolute rejection of reason as a relevant force.
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ED209



Joined: 17 Oct 2006

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what about cup-a-soup?
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Koveras



Joined: 09 Oct 2008

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the alcohol they drank was weak and watery. They weren't drunk most of the time. At least that's what I learned about the Renaissance in England in a Shakespeare class.
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tfunk



Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Location: Dublin, Ireland

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doesn't alcohol dehydrate you?
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eamo



Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Location: Shepherd's Bush, 1964.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Download the documentary 'Black Gold' for the full story on how coffee changed the world and continues to dominate the economies of many countries.

You'll see a good argument that coffee caused the French Revolution and thereby changed the face of western socio-political culture.

I think I remember an incredible claim that the average parisienne drank 6 bottles of wine per day! Before coffee came along.
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jajdude



Joined: 18 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought this was about an early morning business meeting.
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mindmetoo



Joined: 02 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jajdude wrote:
I thought this was about an early morning business meeting.


It would describe a lot of Koreans, certainly. I love watching drunk Koreans at 10 am puking their guts out.
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Bramble



Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Location: National treasures need homes

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe the point is that we have access to clean water and fresh fruit and vegetables, so we don't need coffee or alcohol ... ?

Oh wait, what site is this?
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Thewhiteyalbum



Joined: 13 Nov 2008

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="sojourner1"]Germany! Bier maestros. They are the puritans of beer since antiquity. They make the natural good beer that is drank anytime. Traditionally in Germany, people drink the world's best beer instead of water or anything else, because they can due to it being natural. Today, people can't drink bier like that all the time since they have to work in a high tech world where they have to pay attention and be sober, but people still have a great time regularly in the bier gartens.
quote]

And I can't help but wonder if German is your first language. Dude, you produce some shocking howlers.
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