Korean Job Discussion Forums

[sojourner1]

You walk into a class at 9:10 AM and say, "Good morning," and smile, but the students appear to be barely keeping their heads up and only a few are barely mumbling a response of good morning. You ask what day it is, but can't get an answer while you know they know. You repeat the question and a few say it, but in low voice with their sad faces drooping down. You attempt to wake them up with a song like BINGO before you begin your lesson, but many seem almost incoherent.

When you begin your lesson, you notice half the class are repeating what you say to mock you with contempt where they are trying to say, "We're tired, we don't feel good, we're not interested, and we don't want to listen to you." This can happen any time, but usually happens in the mornings.

This is the one thing that frustrates me in my teaching much more so than the talking problem I always have to tend to.

Many times they're too tired to do things they find fun and will either do nothing or will mock you which makes me angry. I'm thinking now that chewing students out over this is like kicking a dog for his owners mistakes, because I don't know or understand these kids situation as I'm told nothing, but I'm realizing they're usually not getting adequate rest, exercise, and nutrition.

How do you feel about this disrespectful offending mockery?

How do you handle this issue? This is the one thing I've disliked about teaching in Korea besides being lied to so much by the adults.

[fromtheuk]

I work with elementary kids and sometimes during my current winter camp for example, they sometimes mock myself or bad mouthe me very obviously to one another.

With 18 months experience, I have learned how to reduce my frustration and address this problem.

I ask them to remain silent, if they don't respond and continue to snigger, I then ask the offending student to remain silent.

This doesn't work, so I then give minus points to the relevant team.

When this doesn't work, I give less attention to the bad students in the hope they will shut up.

When that fails, I ask the bad student to put their hands on their head and stand in the corner of the room.

If they've been awful, I ask them to do so for the rest of the morning i.e. they stand until it's time to go home.

I must confess I felt happy inside to see a couple of students cry loudly.

Another technique is if all of these measures fail to stop the bad student from misbehaving, then do what I did the other day.

I asked a few students to leave class and go home, which they did.

I remember as a new teacher, I read advice on this forum about not trying to be the student's friend. This is spot on.

If they misbehave punish them in an appropriate manner and make it clear you will discipline them whenever it is necessary.

That way they respect you more, they learn to shut up because it will backfire on them if they won't, and you'll also eliminate most of the frustration you justifiably feel.

If they mimic you, ask them difficult questions, mimic their absurd pronunciation and ridicule them when they give the wrong answer.

When you embarrass them in front of their peers, they tend to shut up.

[Young FRANKenstein]

[TheUrbanMyth]

[Perceptioncheck]

I just ignore it. The kids in my class that mimic are usually the kids that love all the attention they can get, be it positive, negative or something in between. Pretending they don't exist gives them a kick up the ass far more than any punishment/removal of stickers/taking away of group points.

[moosehead]

[ontheway]

[sojourner1]

Wow, it's not nearly as bad as at the hagwon I taught at before going PS. I find PS to be much better, because I have a little more Korean teacher support and the kids seem to be better behaved. Hagwon was a total nightmere for mockery, chattering, and temper tandrums with absolutely no support. It got to the point, I physically removed badly misbehaved disrespectful kids who would run off and go scream to the director, sometimes quitting, but nothing was ever said to me about this. In hagwon, I'd have kids spazz out, screamed like they were being murdered, and just throw themselves in the floor to curl up in a fetal position, because I told them they were wrong for mocking me and yelled at them they are expected to listen, pay attention, and act right. Never seen such serious problems in PS, but they'll try me. I think in the country, the kids are not as pressured.

Yep, I noticed when I nip problems when they start, this makes things easier there after. This is what experience teaches you.

[VanIslander]

First time I tell the student to stop it, the second time yellow card, the third time red card "Get out of my classroom" to which they leave or I escort them by the shirt collar, slowly but forcibly, even if their chair has to come with them ( I later go out in the hall and offer the student a choice: "Phone your mother to go home OR be nice and come back into the classroom" Students always have chosen the second option).

Within two months all discipline problems were sorted out.

That was nearly three years ago. (I had similar success at my last job from 02-06.)

I know the effectiveness of my approach is context-specific: What works with small classes of elementary school aged students you teach two and three times a week doesn't translate to other class sizes, class frequencies and learning environments, and of course age ranges.

It takes a new student about forty seconds to get the point from classmates: don't do that. Getting students to censor each other is a long and delicate process.

BASIC RESPECT IS MANDATORY IN MY CLASSROOM. I don't punish, don't make any student stand in the corner. Simply: IT'S MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY. The director knows that. I lost two students in six years of teaching due to that method of classroom management. So be it.

I couldn't get paid enough to take *beep* from students.

The best way is to be hard as nails from day one, can the buddy buddy routine, and ease up over time, to the point where a mere look or stopping still substitutes for any disciplinary move. I'm all nice and peachy with my students now and the new Korean teacher here doesn't understand how I do it, her class being unruly, nobody does homework, students write on the walls, etc. I just said to her: "They like me but they fear me too. They know I have limits."

One of the reasons I avoid teaching teenagers and think a middle school or high school ps job would be totally alien to me is how to deal with mockery, laziness, bad attitude, etc.

I wrote each of my students a Christmas card, personalizing them, focusing on re-inforcing the good will between us: they knowing my class is a heck of a lot of fun if they play ball, do things my way. My tactics of dealing with mockery are contingent on having such good, longer-term rapport with the students. A month-long camp would be another kettle of fish.

I'm apprehensive about changing jobs unless into a similar kind of situation as my last two teaching gigs. I'm comfortable and happy. I have to come to Dave's to get my dose of mockery.

[poet13]

Slavery might be illegal, but Pwning a student is not.

[sojourner1]

VanIslander, very good ideas. I too am going to try the yellow and red card system starting March 2nd. I too teach elementary classes 2 to 3 times a week both small and large classes. I'm not taking any bull like I did during earlier times when I felt more tolerant and was a nice friendly softy. I'm still too friendly and soft with them, but taking a much more assertive approach. Teaching instills real leadership skills in you. This is the main skill you gain in Korea and is what you sell when you go home for a job in the future. I'm thinking corporate or government trainer.

They tried that typical mocking in the beginning of my Winter camp and I blew a gasket to not mock me. No one knew the word mock, rude, and angry so we used an electronic dictionary to translate them. I banged a chair on the floor to make a loud noise, said if anyone doesn't want to be here raise your hand, and that I don't want students who don't want to be here. I told them I kick bad students out of school and they have to go home and explain to their mothers. No more issues. I had a college intern translate what I said to them just to ensure it hit home loud and clear. Without co-teacher support, discipline can be too confusing for low level elementary students, but I just ask for help in regular school if I need something said in Korean which smooths out problems.

I stop my lesson when something needs attention and then I start where I left off with the same attitude and tone as before an incident. After this incident there were only very minor noise problems at times for the remaining 4 days, but nothing bad. I'm realizing it makes everything better to be a hard ass at first and always hard and strict when it's the 1st time you address an issue. Assertiveness goes a long way if you're not scared to show an unpleasant face sometimes. In Korea, you got to sometimes lose face and be assertive, direct, and concise in what you mean or you'll get nothing accomplished.

When you don't like something people, especially students, are doing, call them on it to correct the issue and directly ask them, "Why do you mock me?" and then repeat anything you hear them saying to give them a sour feeling about mockery. I've gotten to the point of no fear where I'll directly ask Korean adults in a loud clear voice, "Why did you lie to me about it?" when I catch lies. It never surprises me anymore how they try to pull all these obvious lies and then even have the gald to say I forgot what they said.

I learned that just because I'm in someone else's country doesn't mean I can't stand up and tell them they're wrong, rude, inconsiderate, or lying to me. Of course, I don't accuse students of being inconsiderate or lying, but I do adults when it's warranted. "Don't mock me or you're leaving my classroom!"

In the end, they liked me, respected me, and wanted more class.

[ThingsComeAround]

[ontheway]

[yingwenlaoshi]

I only read the OP. Uh, it takes time? There's no magical game, but if they know that you like them, etc., it can run much more smoothly. Games? They suck. Buy them a hot chocolate or something. Not all the time, but it's the thought that counts. You have to be somewhat stern. Make them speak. Write what they have to say on the board. Help them out. Put yourself in their shoes and follow your nose...

[VanIslander]