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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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 Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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| bassexpander wrote: |
In any event, it is now on record that ATEK finds the current arrangement to be very faulty. It means something that foreigners have pointed this out before something happens.
So the next time a teacher is accused of something bad, if they're not an E-2, ATEK can say "I told you so" and counter any government crap about needing MORE regulations for teachers.
And how will they do this countering? The government will impose any regulations they wish and ATEK will not be able to stop them
In short, it makes the gov't look stupid, ignorant, and shortsighted. At the very least, they should require that those coming in on professors visas (E-1?) be checked, followed by gyopo visas and then F-2's.
Basically, ATEK has planted a landmine which they know the Korean gov't will most likely walk straight into. |
You do know that the government is ALREADY debating a law which would require CBC's for all work visas here, right? That "landmine" doesn't have any fuse to it. |
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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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| Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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I think the problem is that many are confusing an F series visa with a work visa. It is not. It is a family visa. They are not going to require a CBC for a family visa.
As far as a CBC being required for certain jobs, I think it is a good idea to require it for education related work. |
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Tony (ATEK)
Joined: 20 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:02 am Post subject: |
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I've been following this thread with interest. I do need to clear a couple things up right here, though.
| BrianInSuwon wrote: |
Bibbitybop,
I think ATEK initially wanted to fight against drug testing because it was a form of discrimination but now they are changing their focus to recommending testing for all visa holders. |
ATEK has never been for or against testing. We are for a single standard, and we are against discrimination. The current system is discriminatory. It must be changed. Whether that means no tests or tests for all teachers is up to the government to decide, but tests for all visa holders would be discriminatory as well, because there are no reasonable grounds, and the UN has rules about doing things like that without reasonable grounds.
| BrianInSuwon wrote: |
| But from my understanding, ATEK can not recommend any changes in legal requirements because that would require a political decision and its illegal for foreigners to engage in political activities. It seems like ATEK is walking on slippery ground. |
It is your constitutional right to file a complaint with the National Human Rights Commission of Korea. We are urging teachers to exercise their rights. ATEK itself is not recommending changes in the government. We are well advised by legal counsel on what we can and can't say.
| BrianInSuwon wrote: |
| In my opinion, ATEK should avoid such political issues and focus on bringing awareness to the foreign community about their current legal rights and bringing pressure to the hagwon association to adhere to the current laws. |
All in good time. We haven't officially launched yet. We've got a paid contractor building our website so that we've got the infrastructure to handle a serious number of members. Once that's in place, we'll be able to launch and help non-citizen teachers with a great many things.
So the option was to sit back and keep quietly organizing while Professor Wagner filed his report with the Human Rights Commission, or get involved and support him.
We chose to support him. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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E series visas are a work visa�and in the particular case of the E2 -for teaching English�CRC and medicals seem appropriately required by immigration.
F series visas are a family related visa.
Not a work related visa�therefore CRC and medicals not required.
Should such persons work � specifically in education�than that falls to the Ministry of Education to require CRC�s and medicals�.not immigration.
F5 is a special case � thoroughly investigated by immigration.
Why does ATEK feel the need to concern themselves with F series visas and immigration? |
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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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| Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Tony (ATEK) wrote: |
ATEK has never been for or against testing. We are for a single standard, and we are against discrimination. The current system is discriminatory. It must be changed.
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So ATEK supports opening the job market in Korea to qualified applicants from other countries such as the Philippines and India?
Do you think this stance is popular with the majority of those you advocate for? |
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buymybook
Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Location: Telluride
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| Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
| Why does ATEK feel the need to concern themselves with F series visas and immigration? |
It's quite simple, because many F series visa holders teach children "and" Immigration is the Ministry that is discriminating against E-2 Visa holders.
You F series Visa holders are not special, I'm sure many of you have married korean women to simply make your life easier with Immigration(just like many folks marry for money and not love). If I was stupid enough to do that and then suddenly someone told me that my teaching requirements could be the same as an E-2 Visa holder, yeah I'd be pretty teed off that I ever got married for such a stupid reason.
Please stop mixing your decision to get married for an easier life( and money )with EQUALITY for all TEACHERS who teach children. |
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Ruraljuror
Joined: 08 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| It's quite simple, because many F series visa holders teach children |
The majority of F series visa holders do not teach children. Most F visa holders are young women from Southeast Asia who were imported into this country to be brides in rural areas. As has been mentioned in this thread numerous times, an F visa is NOT an employment visa so it is senseless to apply employment concerns to it. This is a simple but very important distinction. Obviously Korea is not going to require a foreign woman to get a apostilized CRC to be able to marry a Korean man.
As has also been mentioned by others in this thread, anyone who teaches children absolutely should have to submit a CRC and a medical exam. But this should be a requirement of the Ministry of Education and not Immigration, as this is an issue that concerns education and most F series visa holders do not work with children.
ATEKers please trust me...this issue is a nonstarter. |
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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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| Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 3:51 am Post subject: |
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| buymybook wrote: |
| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
| Why does ATEK feel the need to concern themselves with F series visas and immigration? |
It's quite simple, because many F series visa holders teach children "and" Immigration is the Ministry that is discriminating against E-2 Visa holders.
You F series Visa holders are not special, I'm sure many of you have married korean women to simply make your life easier with Immigration(just like many folks marry for money and not love). If I was stupid enough to do that and then suddenly someone told me that my teaching requirements could be the same as an E-2 Visa holder, yeah I'd be pretty teed off that I ever got married for such a stupid reason.
Please stop mixing your decision to get married for an easier life( and money )with EQUALITY for all TEACHERS who teach children. |
This post is wrong on so many levels it boggles the mind. How can someone that is supposedly educated be so ignorant?
While some F visa holders do in fact teach, the vast majority of them do not. That is a fact.
The rest of your post regarding the reasons people have married is simply offensive beyond words. |
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bassexpander
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.
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| Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 4:27 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| bassexpander wrote: |
In any event, it is now on record that ATEK finds the current arrangement to be very faulty. It means something that foreigners have pointed this out before something happens.
So the next time a teacher is accused of something bad, if they're not an E-2, ATEK can say "I told you so" and counter any government crap about needing MORE regulations for teachers.
And how will they do this countering? The government will impose any regulations they wish and ATEK will not be able to stop them
In short, it makes the gov't look stupid, ignorant, and shortsighted. At the very least, they should require that those coming in on professors visas (E-1?) be checked, followed by gyopo visas and then F-2's.
Basically, ATEK has planted a landmine which they know the Korean gov't will most likely walk straight into. |
You do know that the government is ALREADY debating a law which would require CBC's for all work visas here, right? That "landmine" doesn't have any fuse to it. |
You do know that you're assuming the outcome of the vote, right? |
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semi-fly
Joined: 07 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:13 am Post subject: |
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| Forgive my ignorance but I was under the assumption that foreign unions were against the law in Korea, did they recently change the law/regulation? If it's okay now, what happened to all the chatter about "You're not here long enough to..." when it came to unions? |
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Ukon
Joined: 29 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:35 am Post subject: |
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| BrianInSuwon wrote: |
I think that ATEK has some good aims but overall, I think they are going about it wrong.
There is no need to form a Korean based association to help foreign teachers. They can accomplish most of their goals by creating a US based website. They can provide contact information for the pension office and update information about current immigration law.
What benefit can they provide by creating a Korean based association?
No foreign association can have political weight; the association can't influence legislative decisions.
In my opinion, providing information and sharing information is what is needed. But posting a negative review of a hagwon or recruiter on Dave's would negatively effect Dave's ad revenue so, it seems that a separate website is needed to address such issues. |
Bingo...when it comes to jobs, most folks seem to walk into position of abuse and stay there for quite awhile......information is what people need...fighting battles with wonderland is silly...smart people avoid wonderland like the plague.... |
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semi-fly
Joined: 07 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:20 am Post subject: |
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| BrianInSuwon wrote: |
I think that ATEK has some good aims but overall, I think they are going about it wrong.
There is no need to form a Korean based association to help foreign teachers. They can accomplish most of their goals by creating a US based website. They can provide contact information for the pension office and update information about current immigration law.
What benefit can they provide by creating a Korean based association?
No foreign association can have political weight; the association can't influence legislative decisions.
In my opinion, providing information and sharing information is what is needed. But posting a negative review of a hagwon or recruiter on Dave's would negatively effect Dave's ad revenue so, it seems that a separate website is needed to address such issues. |
Wouldn't having an association established in the country you are residing in make more sense? I'd imagine there are some people here that would want a face-to-face meeting with people in order to explain their position, problems, etc.
Regarding negative postings, how else would a potential ESL teacher receive information about a specific recruiter or school without the warnings of other posters? I know not every person who teaches in Korea is screwed over by their employer or a recruiter but giving people warnings into what can possibly go wrong while residing in Korea is a good thing. |
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kimchi_pizza
Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Location: "Get back on the bus! Here it comes!"
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| Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:21 am Post subject: |
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Man, I swore I'd never post on here again but what the hell...
There are 3 threads at the top of the forum and after a extremely brief glance at posts and topics I have ta laugh a bit....
First there seems to be a battle going on about discrimination between E-type visa holders and F-type visa holders. Yea, there probably are but I wanna get to the HEART of the matter. I think the discrimination is justified.
Do you think the real fear or "danger" is criminal records? Diseases? Reckless behavior? I don't think so. The real threat that Korea worries about is CULTURE. E-2s arrive cocky and full of the "rightness" of their nation and beliefs. Believing that Korea should confrom to their ways and beliefs or in essence: culture. That's a threat to Korea in a very real sense in that it can affect Korean for generations or even longer.
F-2s on the other hand are married to Koreans and (I going out on a limb) trying to adapt to the way of life in Korea to basically conform to it's beliefs and stucture, way of life, etc. whatever... Naturally Korea will be more...Lenient of them and I believe they rightly should as they pose less of a threat to Korea's identity.
So, let the descrimination continue! Fighting!
Also, and I'm REALLY laughing here, Atek shot itself in the foot by pitting E-visas vs. F-holders. Instead for first casually trying to gain the respect of Koreans and the powers that be, it has expats fighting expats. WOW! that's funny! I woulda picked atek members with F-visas to hold key position that have actually invested time and effort to understand Korea and it's ways, then try to adapt. Then pick ONE topic that encompases ALL expats and can show a way of adapting laws or regulations that benefit all expats and show how it can benefit Korea in the long run.
Korea will do only one thing acceptable and that is look after Korea, Ya gotta show how your changes will help Korea FIRST and then help out expats as well. It's called "Jeong" or a spirit of unity or whatever ya call it. Fighting!
ahahaha. I've finished one bottle of baeksaeju...and my girlfriend is upset I'm not returning text messages....wheeeeee!
oh yea, I'm on an E-2 also...
Have a good one!
P.S. does this get me an honorable mention on the freakiest waekook thread? pretty please... |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:54 am Post subject: |
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buymybook wrote
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| It's quite simple,... |
Perhaps the only thing simple in this situation is you. 
buymybook� hmmm�your unprovoked cowardly insults aside�
Most F series visas do not teach�and of those who do�fewer teach children.
Logic is obviously not your strong suit�perhaps you might just as well stick to the insults and let the big kids make the decisions for you.
If you are a good representative of what ATEK is representing�then I get the feeling it is not long for this world.
As for myself, I was not opposed to ATEK, rather indifferent.
However, the more I research this, the more I see ATEK heading in the path of most resistance.
It will obviously be meeting strong resistance with Korean law and immigration, but now it also seems to be alienating quite a few foreign visas holders as well�not altogether a wise dynamic.
Should legalities be breached, I would again be indifferent to see those who crusade this issue fall under the full weight of Korean law�and anyone who has been here for any length of times knows how accommodating Korean law is of uppity will-imposing foreigners.
I can see the posts already�"Donations being sought for legal fees to help foreigners wrongfully accused and deported in an ongoing immigration dispute"�and oh the weeping that will ensue. |
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Ukon
Joined: 29 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:37 am Post subject: |
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| kimchi_pizza wrote: |
Man, I swore I'd never post on here again but what the hell...
There are 3 threads at the top of the forum and after a extremely brief glance at posts and topics I have ta laugh a bit....
First there seems to be a battle going on about discrimination between E-type visa holders and F-type visa holders. Yea, there probably are but I wanna get to the HEART of the matter. I think the discrimination is justified.
Do you think the real fear or "danger" is criminal records? Diseases? Reckless behavior? I don't think so. The real threat that Korea worries about is CULTURE. E-2s arrive cocky and full of the "rightness" of their nation and beliefs. Believing that Korea should confrom to their ways and beliefs or in essence: culture. That's a threat to Korea in a very real sense in that it can affect Korean for generations or even longer.
F-2s on the other hand are married to Koreans and (I going out on a limb) trying to adapt to the way of life in Korea to basically conform to it's beliefs and stucture, way of life, etc. whatever... Naturally Korea will be more...Lenient of them and I believe they rightly should as they pose less of a threat to Korea's identity.
So, let the descrimination continue! Fighting!
Also, and I'm REALLY laughing here, Atek shot itself in the foot by pitting E-visas vs. F-holders. Instead for first casually trying to gain the respect of Koreans and the powers that be, it has expats fighting expats. WOW! that's funny! I woulda picked atek members with F-visas to hold key position that have actually invested time and effort to understand Korea and it's ways, then try to adapt. Then pick ONE topic that encompases ALL expats and can show a way of adapting laws or regulations that benefit all expats and show how it can benefit Korea in the long run.
Korea will do only one thing acceptable and that is look after Korea, Ya gotta show how your changes will help Korea FIRST and then help out expats as well. It's called "Jeong" or a spirit of unity or whatever ya call it. Fighting!
ahahaha. I've finished one bottle of baeksaeju...and my girlfriend is upset I'm not returning text messages....wheeeeee!
oh yea, I'm on an E-2 also...
Have a good one!
P.S. does this get me an honorable mention on the freakiest waekook thread? pretty please... |
Call me crazy, but I always thought government sponsered texts and lessons for english were pro-biased towards american culture... |
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