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OculisOrbis
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
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 Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:45 am Post subject: |
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| Why? because you have family here? Many E-2 holders have their families here, too, but they're just not Korean. If your argument is that if we don't like it, then we can just leave --- well, so can you, it will just take a couple more plane tickets and a few more bags than an unmarried person. |
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Slaps
Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Location: Sitting on top of the world
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:45 am Post subject: |
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| Basically, I'm just sick of all those bitching and moaning F-series holders that already enjoy many more freedoms and rights than all the long-term E-2 holders out there. Just because you married a native and received these extra privileges, please don't forget that you were once probably here on an E-2 as well....and because others chose not to wed for those advantages does not mean we are any less invested in our livelihoods here. |
Shut up you condescending little pri ck.
Who the *beep* are you to suggest that I married the woman I love for 'extra privileges and advantages'.
Anyway why should I not enjoy more rights now I'm married to a Korean?
If you were to marry someone from a country other than your own, would you want said spouse to be subject to background checks and HIV tests every year? Would you *beep*! |
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OculisOrbis
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:49 am Post subject: |
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| For the requirements based on employment -- Yes. I said that requirements should be based on the position. I really don't care who you've married. If some of the people in the same position are required to provide things for the safety and piece of mind of the people they are working with, then all people in those positions should face the same requirements. |
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Ilsanman
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:53 am Post subject: |
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An F-2 visa is treated as a job qualification here. It's a sad truth, but the immigration system here makes it that way.
Kimberley culture is that; no advanced planning. The new visa system, requiring at least a month to get a new teacher makes it that way.
Don't hate the player, hate the game.
| OculisOrbis wrote: |
| For the requirements based on employment -- Yes. I said that requirements should be based on the position. I really don't care who you've married. If some of the people in the same position are required to provide things for the safety and piece of mind of the people they are working with, then all people in those positions should face the same requirements. |
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inkoreaforgood
Joined: 15 Dec 2003
Location: Inchon
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:56 am Post subject: |
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| Kimchieluver wrote: |
As an F5 visa holder, I have to say, that ATEK's wording and campaign were totally irresponsible. Maybe a lawyer should be the head of ATEK.
Let me put it this way. I have done 5 CRCs since I have been here. I have a wife and a community which I partake in. I contribute to Korea. I have a lot invested in Korea. My whole damn life is in Korea.
So now ATEK wants me to go back every year on my own dime because they think all teacher's should be treated equal? Here's some news for you ATEK. F5s have gotten their criminal record checks done by immigration. There is no "switch the state" to avoid a DUI conviction charge. F5s have been put through that test.
Here's some more news for you ATEK... teachers in North America don't have to get a CRC done every fUcKing year.
Here's some more news for you ATEK... If you had a green card in the U.S. or permanent residency in another country, would you like to be treated as an immigrant non-stop year after year.
Throw your money where your spouse is and I bet you wouldn't be so FuCkiNg fool hardy with your nonsense campaign.
How about tackling some REAL ISSUES like no-pension.. and lack of health insurance.. or COMPLETELY OBVIOUS TAX FRAUD.. or illegal dismissals...
Gee, I wonder why you didn't campaign against any REAL issues? Oh yeah, I remember. You are a toothless organization that cannot bring about any real change by itself. You have to wait until some FuckIng LAWYER files a complaint and pounce on it. Thank God you left it to a LAWYER who probably just wants to make a name for himself to decide who has to return to their country every year.
ATEK are you going to pay for lost wages to MY WIFE AND FAMILY if I have to return to my home country.
Have a nice day and *beep* off ATEK..
I have been silent until now, but your supporters are clueless what it is like to have invested their WHOLE FUckINg LIVELYHOOD in Korea. |
As it has been plainly and clearly stated many times, ATEK has no intent to make each and every one of us foreigners follow the exact same conditions that the current E-2 visa holders go through. Quite the opposite, they want E-2s to have the opportunity to register complaints against an obviously biased system.
What I am hoping to see is a firm basis formed for foreign residents to fight against the many unfair practices that police and immigration employ, as well as banks and credit card companies. If the government won't follow their own laws voluntarily, why would anyone else. |
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OculisOrbis
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:57 am Post subject: |
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"An F-2 visa is treated as a job qualification here. It's a sad truth, but the immigration system here makes it that way.
Kimberley culture is that; no advanced planning. The new visa system, requiring at least a month to get a new teacher makes it that way.
Don't hate the player, hate the game."
No arguments about the way it is - - just stating an opinion of the way I think it should be. |
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DJTwoTone
Joined: 11 Mar 2003
Location: Yangsan - I'm not sure where it is either
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:06 am Post subject: |
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For a second time... the majority of F series holders are not English teachers. There is no way that they are going to make all those wives go back to their home countries every year to get things done.
And the whole reason that males can now have the F series is that the Human rights ministry told them that it was discriminatory to only include wives... |
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inkoreaforgood
Joined: 15 Dec 2003
Location: Inchon
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:11 am Post subject: |
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| DJTwoTone wrote: |
For a second time... the majority of F series holders are not English teachers. There is no way that they are going to make all those wives go back to their home countries every year to get things done.
And the whole reason that males can now have the F series is that the Human rights ministry told them that it was discriminatory to only include wives... |
Right, there is no way that any F visa holder will lose any rights we have gained in the last 5 years. The outcry by the huge number of Koreans now related to us would be pretty loud. |
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pocariboy73
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:15 am Post subject: |
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| inkoreaforgood wrote: |
| DJTwoTone wrote: |
For a second time... the majority of F series holders are not English teachers. There is no way that they are going to make all those wives go back to their home countries every year to get things done.
And the whole reason that males can now have the F series is that the Human rights ministry told them that it was discriminatory to only include wives... |
Right, there is no way that any F visa holder will lose any rights we have gained in the last 5 years. The outcry by the huge number of Koreans now related to us would be pretty loud. |
We're going around in circles, but for the third time, the government could make it that the F holders involved in teaching will have to jump through hoops and get an additional visas like an E2 or E1. Just as it was before! Very simple to go back to the way it was. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:17 am Post subject: |
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| DJTwoTone wrote: |
For a second time... the majority of F series holders are not English teachers. There is no way that they are going to make all those wives go back to their home countries every year to get things done.
And for the LAST time, this is a red herring. ONLY those F-series people who are teachers would have to do so. And that is a small percentage of the total F-series population
And the whole reason that males can now have the F series is that the Human rights ministry told them that it was discriminatory to only include wives... |
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howie2424
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:24 am Post subject: |
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T_J wrote
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I'm amused that the drug test thread is almost as long as this one.
Hmmmmmm. |
I was thinking the exact same thing. When the new E2 policy was put in place last year I don�t recall a single soul saying that these were reasonable requirements and good for protecting children. On the contrary, folks screamed bloody murder and if I recall correctly there was a poll where the majority indicated they objected so strongly to them that they were going to leave the country.
Now that these same requirements may be imposed on F series visas as well, the requirements are portrayed as just minor inconveniences and those who belly-ached so much about it last year are suddenly hailing the benefits of protecting the children. I think you�ll forgive me if I don�t take you all very seriously.
The E2 crowd had these requirements imposed upon them through the actions of a sick, twisted pedophile who didn�t give a damn about anyone but himself. We F2 folks now face the prospect of having these same requirements imposed upon us at the behest of our own E2 colleagues. Thanks guys. If you can�t see why we are ticked about that, then I guess there�s not much else we can do to explain it.
Poemer wrote
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| I am being no more vague than the people who have their panties in a bunch over imagined threats to their livelihood in Korea. My vagueness is exactly the point, the NHRCK has a very broad set of laws and issues to look at, and they will look at them and see if anything is wrong. That is all that is going on here. Some people are placing too fine a point on things. |
No, you�re being deliberately vague because you don�t want to concede the obvious. The easiest way for KIS to remedy this alleged discrimination is to simply roll the clock back and require F2s to get E2 visas if they want to teach. You don�t need to be Kreskin to see that this is one of the most likely outcomes if the NHRCK accepts that the Wagner report has merit. You'd like to ignore this very real possibility. I can't. It impacts me.
Which means that one of two things happened at ATEK before this campaign of theirs was launched. Either they didn�t foresee the likely consequences of their actions, in which case they�re just reckless, or they did foresee the possible detrimental results for F2s and, as Pocariboy so aptly put it, threw us under the bus.
Go back and read what T-J wrote earlier in this thread about what it�s been like for him to be the spouse of a Korean living in this country. He�s gone from no spousal visa, to a spousal visa with no work rights to where we are today; a residency visa with full employment rights. Now this gang of five from ATEK wants to send him and me back to second base. Surely anyone who thinks about that for more than 10 seconds can see why there are so many of us �getting our panties in a bunch� as you put it.
OculisOrbis wrote:
| Quote: |
| Basically, I'm just sick of all those bitching and moaning F-series holders that already enjoy many more freedoms and rights than all the long-term E-2 holders out there. Just because you married a native and received these extra privileges, please don't forget that you were once probably here on an E-2 as well....and because others chose not to wed for those advantages does not mean we are any less invested in our livelihoods here. |
Pocariboy is right. You don't. Get married and buy a car. Start raising kids. Move out of your school funded studio and buy your own place. Start paying for your own airfare for those annual trips home as well as that of your wife and kids. Do all of that and then tell me you have as much invested in your livelihood as we do.
Last edited by howie2424 on Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:52 am; edited 3 times in total |
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Ilsanman
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:26 am Post subject: |
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Or they could put it on each individual educational institute.
Problem solved.
| pocariboy73 wrote: |
| inkoreaforgood wrote: |
| DJTwoTone wrote: |
For a second time... the majority of F series holders are not English teachers. There is no way that they are going to make all those wives go back to their home countries every year to get things done.
And the whole reason that males can now have the F series is that the Human rights ministry told them that it was discriminatory to only include wives... |
Right, there is no way that any F visa holder will lose any rights we have gained in the last 5 years. The outcry by the huge number of Koreans now related to us would be pretty loud. |
We're going around in circles, but for the third time, the government could make it that the F holders involved in teaching will have to jump through hoops and get an additional visas like an E2 or E1. Just as it was before! Very simple to go back to the way it was. |
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Leslie Cheswyck
Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: University of Western Chile
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:54 am Post subject: |
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No F series visa holder will be deported for lack of employment. I think that was the whole point of the F series visa in the first place. Nobody is talking about having them deported for failing to meet E series visa/employment requirements. Nobody. The only step backward for the F series visa holders who are teachers would be having to meet the E 2 visa requirements.
Is that it in a nutshell? Have I missed anything?
I know there's talk of unintended consequences. Let's hear what they might be. |
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Kimchieluver
Joined: 02 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:11 am Post subject: |
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| Leslie Cheswyck wrote: |
No F series visa holder will be deported for lack of employment. I think that was the whole point of the F series visa in the first place. Nobody is talking about having them deported for failing to meet E series visa/employment requirements. Nobody. The only step backward for the F series visa holders who are teachers would be having to meet the E 2 visa requirements.
Is that it in a nutshell? Have I missed anything?
I know there's talk of unintended consequences. Let's hear what they might be. |
You missed the whole boat. |
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Kwangjuchicken
Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Location: I was abducted by aliens on my way to Korea and forced to be an EFL teacher on this crazy planet.
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:24 am Post subject: |
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I have been in Korea for 10 years. My first 8 I taught many kids classes in my colleges/universities. Past 2 years only adults. I really enjoyed the kids classes but I would never want to teach them again.
After the article that that Korean American Lawyer published things changed. For my first 8 years here on the street in stores, etc. kids would run up to me ask my name where am I from etc. After that and following articles they looked at me like I was evil. Now with all the stuff on this new topic in the papers they look at me as if I am more evil than last year. That lawyer guy and this new group with their newspaper articles have done nothing (especially the articles last year about CPN) but destroy the reputations of all foreigners in Korea. Sometimes people should just keep their big fat stupid mouths shut and let things be as they are.
NOW IN THE NAME OF GOD KILL THIS THREAD.
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