Korean Job Discussion Forums

[wrazen]

Hi, I'm a newbie.
I am an undergrad in the US right now, I graduate in December. I hope to travel to Korea to teach after graduation.
I have been reading tons of posts in the Korea forums here at Dave's. This site has become sort of a guilty pleasure for me. I'm learning so much about what to expect. I do have one question I haven't found the answer to....
I have a dog. He is a lab mix and he is about 8 years old. He is getting pretty old and there is no one here at home to care for him. I love him very much as I have had him for so long.
I am not sure what would be best for him. I thought about taking him to Korea. I'd love to get some feedback about what would be best. Will it be too much for him? Will it be hard to find a place where I can live and have a pet? What are the views on dogs in Korea? What are some options if I decide not to take him?
Thanks.

[Yu_Bum_suk]

It will be very hard to take care of him properly, and many Koreans are afraid of big dogs (big being over 25 pounds). If you take the housing they give you it may be way too small for a dog that size.

I know someone who brought over a big dog for two years, but her life revovled around taking care of him and some of her neighbours were very freaked out by it.

[Jandar]

You should have made this a poll.

The dog could come in handy if you run out of money.

Depending on the size you could feed a couple of families.

[Cerriowen]

With a dog that size... you're going to have a really hard time finding a place to stay.

I have two dogs but they're both under 20lbs, and even that is difficult. Apartments here are *really* small. You're probably going to be put in a one-room house, which means about the size of 4-5 double beds (mine is exactly the size of 5 double beds... I measured it!) He won't have anywhere to run or play, because they don't have dog parks. You can't take him in most places either... even regular parks often ban dogs. Even if the dog IS allowed in... you're going to have old people coming up and yelling at you to get your dirty filthy animal out of their park... (while drunks are peeing/puking on the tree next to you, and kids drop their trash everywhere).

Most korean children are either really excited about the dog... and run up and grab it... Or... (more often) scream and cry. Adults are frequently fearful and agressive toward dogs (particularly large ones).

Koreans are really hard on dogs. Even ones that *like* dogs, treat them really roughly. Lots of hard "patting" (which is harder than most people would smack a puppy for being naughty) and very loud noises (shouting AHAHA! GOOOOD DOG! WHAT A NICE DOG... in Korean) and no concept of what might make the dog uncomfortable (grabbing their face, picking them up by their front legs, poking them).

A mixed breed dog will be treated badly here. Eg; I went to a restaurant and sat outside w/ both my dogs. One's a mini-cocker spaniel, and the other is a mixed breed. The owner and his daughter came up and cooed at the cocker, and asked me what breed the other was. I said it's a mix, and he jerked his hand back from her, and lead his daughter away. They are considered dangerous and dirty (or food) to a lot of people.

It's going to be extremely expensive to fly your dog over here as well. It's going to be emotionally traumatic on him, particularly at his age. It'll be a huge pain in your arse if you do bring him here.

If you're OK leaving him behind... (or have to for financial reasons), then find a nice couple to adopt him. Don't send him to a shelter, cuz he'll probably be put down or spend the rest of his days in a cage.

If you are really attached to your dog, and have an option... stay home with him for another couple of years til he dies.

If he was a small (under 30lb) dog oK with apt living, I'd say give it a shot... but not his age/size/breed.

[tbag81]

Although I agree with some of Cerriowen's post I don't agree with it all. Yes there are some ppl who don't treat dogs well and many that are afraid of them but it is not typically a problem. A friend of mine has a lab/doberman mix and they haven't had any problems with him in Korea.

Apartments are usually small but if you are not in a hurry to come and are able to look around you may be able to find a job that provides you with a bigger apartment. There are many ppl that live in 2 bedroom apartments.

With a dog that size you will not be as able to carry the dog with you while traveling throughout the country easily(dogs are allowed on the KTX as long as they are in carriers) but it is easy and cheap to leave your dog with a vet while you are away.

As far as parks go, I haven't had any problems with my dog. No one has ever told me that dogs were not allowed.

It will be hard for the dog on the plane but not anymore difficult than adjusting to a new home or family if you left him behind. Having a dog here with you also makes it feel a lot more like home, at least in my opinion.

Also, I am currently looking into bringing my dog home in the summer and found on the Korean Air website that the charge for carrying your dog is twice the excess baggage charge for one piece of regular baggage applicable to the corresponding route. All airlines are different though.

Hope this helps!

[Little Laura]

I brought my English cocker spaniel here (he was larger than the breed standard, more like a Springer spaniel) and did have many people freak out over his size, even though he was only a medium size dog in the States, and a gentler dog you have never met. But I also have a small mini-Schnauzer that I got here a few years later, and people freak out over her, too, sometimes. Many Koreans, including full grown men, believe it or not, are dog-phobic here.

My English Cocker, Tucker, was a bit older and has died since. (I've been here for some years, and Yes, you Aussies, I did bring a dog named Tucker to Korea! and he made it. Even when he ran off on the mountains the first year here and was lost for three days.) I have never regretted bringing Tucker here and finishing out his years together.

I mostly kept Tucker on leash and was considerate of the many people here who are dog-phobic. A good portion of them who live in my building gradually relaxed around Tucker when they finally realized how incredibly gentle he was.

My first day here, as I was moving in and my apartment guards first took a look at what they thought was a huge dog, they said No, he's not allowed to stay here, no dogs allowed. I basically ignored them since I didn't speak Korean, though it was clear what they were saying, because I had already plunked down a large amount of key (deposit) money on my apartment and the deal was done, and I had a dog who was my beloved dog that I had brought over, and that was that. Having lived in China previously (which is where I bought my dog years ago), I had learned that sometimes in Asia the way to get things done is not to ask first (like if they allow dogs.) BTW, I rented my own apartment here and my school reimbursed me only partially for the rent; I don't care. I'm here for awhile and I knew what I wanted, or actually, a Korean friend knew what I wanted and helped me find it through a real estate agent. I love my apartment.

I have friends who brought their boxer with them. Boxers are big. And they lived with her in a smallish apartment that their hogwon had rented for them for a couple years, have a slightly bigger one now. Basically, no matter what the apartment rules are, all apartment complexes have people in them who have dogs. (Most of them are toy sized, though.) And after moving in I found there's a Korean lady here with a Sharpei bigger than Tucker was. So it really was a crock, what the guards were trying to tell me.

Getting him here was no problem. I just checked the laws carefully about requirements re: dates of inoculations and records, etc. Tucker of course was a bit nerved up after the long flight, but as tbag81 said, they can handle the stress, and I also think that day of stress is better than being separated from you for the years to come.

I also have never been told to leave a park because of my dog. But here's perhaps a helpful bit of info: I live near mountains (and there are mountains in many parts of Seoul) so there are many trails to walk my dogs on. My suggestion is to find a school near mountains. My area is great - Jung Gye Dong in Nowon Gu. Northeast edge of Seoul, air's pretty clean, there are lots of hogwons here. I can even tell you the name of one, if you pm me, where there's a Canadian manager who has a dog and might be able to help you find the right apartment.

So, as you can tell, I recommend you bringing your dog here!

But, here is the one down side for me, as tbag alluded to: finding someone to dogsit my dogs when I travel. Yet I always have been able to come up with someone so far. And yes, vets can take care of them for a price...but they'll just be in a cage. I haven't had to resort to that yet. Still, if that was necessary, the dog will survive and IMO he would still be happier in the long run continuing with the human he loves. Also, dog food is expensive here, btw. And lastly, I do agree with the comment tbag81 said that having your dog here will make it seem more like home. It's just so great to have a dog here! Really. I love it every day.

[wrazen]

All the replies were very helpful.
I really do think that Charlie (my dog) would be happiest with me. When I first started college I left him at home with my parents. After a couple of months my mom called to say that Charlie wasn't eating. Concerned I came down and suddenly he was back to normal. I took him back to college with me since I was off campus... never another problem. He is the kind of dog that waits for me and me alone at the door when I leave the room - even if there are other people there to play with him. So I really think it will be better if he can come with me.
I think I am going to try it. Thanks guys for all the insight!

[wayfarer]

This is the land of the dog eaters. If he gets lost he'll get put in a slaugherhouse. Don't even ask what they'll do to him before they turn him into food- you don't want to know. Just don't bring the poor thing here. Korea is no place for a dog.

[sineface]

I think everyone has responded correctly so far...besides the obligatory dog meat comments. I think I'd have to side with cerriowen, overall. I never brought a dog over here, but adopted one once I had been here for a few years. She's tiny (my avatar), weighs about 9 lbs, wouldn't say boo to a ghost, is astoundingly cute looking (at least in my opinion ) and yet I have had grown men jerk themselves to the other side of the street to avoid her. They cower away from her in the elevator (and this is when I'm holding her). We actually have a huge apartment, with some areas to walk her, but there is no way she can be off the leash. Even in rural Korea, there are cars everywhere, and I wouldn't trust a single one of them to stop for her if she got onto a road.


I know I never would have taken a dog over here when I first came...just because I had an idea that the apartments are obscenely small. Even with that knowledge, I was still shocked at how small my places have been. And it's pretty much out of the question for you to get a bigger place, as they're so expensive. You must also think about the hours you're likely to be working. My first couple of jobs were horrendous...split shifts, working morning till night. Is it fair to keep your dog cooped up in a tiny room for 6, 8, 10 hours? And then not even have room to play with him inside, or let him have a good run off the leash outside? You'll also have Koreans, left right and center, treating your beloved dog like he is a monster. If you lose him, god forbid, you better drop everything and find him before anyone else does.

I'm a huge dog lover. I like, as a general rule, dogs more than most people. This certainly applies in Korea . It's extremely hard for me to come to terms with seeing how dogs are abused in this country. It's not hidden, you'll see it daily, and it can break your heart. In amongst all the other crap here, this remains my sticking point. Also, if he's getting older, he may get sicker as time goes by. Can you be certain you'll have access to a good 24 hour vet in case something happens? One that speaks enough English to understand you? I understand you don't have anyone to give him to, and that he'd miss you terribly. Well, how about holding off a few years? Let him have his golden years together with you somewhere open, safe and free? Not a wee room. The exchange rate isn't good right now, and I wouldn't have thought it would be worthwhile coming, to be honest. Not when you have this to consider. Korea will always be here, and if it were me, I'd put my loyal old mate first and save him the stress.

[Morgen]

I agree with sineface and Cerriowen's comments, particularly regarding finding good vet care and also whether it's worth it to come to Korea at all right now, if you have an important reason to delay. I have a 12lb dog who is generally more terrified of Koreans than they are of her, but I have seen children scream and hide behind their parents. My students love to see her and generally pet her very gently, although there's nothing scarier for her than to be surrounded by a crowd of kids.

If you live in Seoul, you'll probably have a vet relatively nearby who speaks English, but probably your apartment will be really small and it will be hard to find places to exercise a big dog. I live in a small country town (where both the other foreigners have dogs too), have a really big place and often let my dog run off the leash on the beach or on trails, but I'm an hour from the nearest vet, which I hate because she had severe health problems before she came to live with me.

Consider that if you live outside Seoul there's a strong chance you won't live near a train station, and you'll have a very hard time ever taking a big dog on a bus. You'll also have a hard time being able to find a dogsitter or even taking weekends away. I'm not sure how much it would cost to feed him, but my small girl eats about 30,000-40,000 won worth of food every month.

It helps in a lot of ways to have a sidekick here, but it will cause you a lot more difficulties than at home. You might check out the forums at animalrescuekorea.org for specific help or advice.

[Little Laura]

I wouldn't trust every vet, btw. I had one misdiagnose my dog. But I have found one I like and trust; he was honest about a problem Tucker had that he couldn't handle and referred me to a bigger, better animal hospital in Sangbong, Royal something. They are a 24 hour hospital, good for emergencies. Tucker had a surgery there. Wasn't cheap. But the doctors spoke English and I was extremely impressed with their care and diagnostics.

So what I guess I'm saying is I agree with the point that if you decide to bring your dog, Seoul is where you want to be.

Also, as I mentioned, my dog was lost for three days my first year - in the dead of winter, no less, but due to my finally thinking of putting my lost dog signs not just in my neighborhood, but also on the trees on the mountain trail where he ran off, the person who found him was able to find me. And it was a poor old ajossi. He brought my dog to me all matted up and shaking (apparently he'd been kept outside), tied with a length of velcro. And the first thing Tucker did when he came in was throw up a mass of what looked like rice and kimchi. No joke. But: I got him back, and unbitten by humans. I think people here know a lost pet when they see one. Though the care Tucker got with the ajossi wasn't the best, at least he was fed...shows his heart was in the right place.

My stupid fault for not getting him a tag with my phone number and a Korean friend's phone number on it as soon as I got here.

[Cerriowen]

AH! Yes... per the vet comment...

I'm surprised at the number of vets here who seems to dislike animals! It's really hard to find a good vet, who will be gentle with your dog.

I went to a vet who very roughly cleaned my dogs ears, and she cried. Then when I got her back, he started "playing" by tapping her ears. She bared her teeth at him (just a little, very fearfully), so he started laughing and flipping her ears more.

Another vet here told me my puppy had parvo, and must be hospitalized for 5 days. Except I've *seen* parvo many times, and she didn' thave any signs. So I called my normal vet to come in on his vacation to tell me if she really had parvo and if I should get her hospitalized or put down... She didn't have parvo... she was just extremely car sick and needed meds to stop vomiting.

Last summer my friends and I went to Gwangwhamun beach in Busan. We were all carrying our dogs, (small cocker, small pug, small mutt). The dogs weren't paying attention to *anyone* around us... not staring or barking or even looking at them. Then the police came and said we had to leave. Someone called and complained that our dogs were terrifying children.

I went hiking on Sammusan (Dongducheon) with both my dogs leashed and walking nicely beside me. The dogs stopped to take a drink from the stream, and a group of old people started screaming at my boyfriend and I to get our dirty animals out of their nice park.

I'm not saying it's not possible to bring a dog to korea... in fact if the dog is really that attached to you, and you feel he can handle the stress of a flight, a foreign country, a small apartment, and people screaming in reaction to him, *and* you being gone for very long hours... and if you are prepared for the additional financial burden of bringing him and finding an apt where you can stay, and being limited in where you can go... Then go for it. Maybe his companionship will help you adjust. Just be aware of what you might be getting yourself in to!

[sineface]

[sineface]

[Arthur Dent]

Yes, if this were a poll I would vote no for some of the more reasonable reasons listed above. I know of someone who brought two dogs - one of them died, but because of a pre-existing medical condition, not for any reason relating to Korea. It might be interesting for you to note that that the individual in question was thereafter stalked by the vet (married, of course) who persisted despite being told that a boyfriend was in the picture.
In addition, the individual brought further stress when care was needed for the dog by others. An imposition not appreciated.
Think carefully about this, not only for the dogs sake, but for yours. If you can't bear to be parted from the dog, stay home.