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Adventurer

Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:53 pm Post subject: Afro centric education in Toronto? |
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In Toronto, there is a debate over creating an Afro-centric schools.
I think this overfocus on black people while people of other races also drop out, doesn't make sense. Sure, the curriculum can somewhat change, but I don't see a point in creating schools for certain races.
If that needs to be done, then why attract such immigrants if they can't be integrated. I am not saying African-Canadians are asking for such a mini-school or to be segregated. Segregation doesn't make sense to me. Yes, the drop-out rate needs to be addressed, but Portuguese Canadians drop out, Arab Canadians drop out. Should we create Portuguese schools at tax payer expense, then? |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Location: I walk along the avenue
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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:37 am Post subject: |
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Quote: |
I don't see a point in creating schools for certain races. |
Well, in my high school back in Edmonton, there was a special program for Ukranian students. I can't recall all that it entailed, but I know they had their own special classroom, and took classes related to Ukranian language and culture. (They took the mainstream classes as well.)
It wasn't a separate school obviously, and the rationale wasn't too stop Ukranians from dropping out, but rather to get them in touch with their heritage. I think the general principle was the same, though: special programs for a particular culture.
I remember once going into their classroom, and seeing anti-Russian cartoons posted on the wall, stuff that went a bit beyond whatever Cold War propaganda we were fed in Social Studies class(which was pretty minimal). I got the impression that anti-Russian propaganda was a significant aspect of their curriculum. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Location: retired
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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:15 am Post subject: |
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On the other hand wrote: |
Quote: |
I don't see a point in creating schools for certain races. |
Well, in my high school back in Edmonton, there was a special program for Ukranian students. |
There should not be special educational areas for different groups, funded by the state. |
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Adventurer

Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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mises wrote: |
On the other hand wrote: |
Quote: |
I don't see a point in creating schools for certain races. |
Well, in my high school back in Edmonton, there was a special program for Ukranian students. |
There should not be special educational areas for different groups, funded by the state. |
I don't buy that idea of Euro-centric education. I mean that's not the reason why black people are dropping out in large numbers. I mean people from India don't have such a high drop out rate, and they are not European at all. The Arab students have a higher drop out rate, but not as high. The Portuguese have a high drop out rate, but still not as high, and they are European. Perhaps, changes are need to the system, but not special schools for people because they are of a different color. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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I read a note that proposed this in the U.S. once for my Journal (Journal of Law and Education). It was a proposal to reverse desegregation and focus on an African curriculum for African-American students.
Obviously, the law in the U.S. (up until the Meredith decision two years ago) was mandated desegregation. Its wierd to see our neighbors to the North considering segregated schools. But, of course, Canada hasn't had a history of pushing African-Americans into inferior schools of their own.
There are plenty of empirical studies that show all races benefit from an integrated atmosphere. I would have to say segregated schools seem like folly. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Location: Retired
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Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 1:55 am Post subject: |
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Kuros wrote: |
I read a note that proposed this in the U.S. once for my Journal (Journal of Law and Education). It was a proposal to reverse desegregation and focus on an African curriculum for African-American students.
Obviously, the law in the U.S. (up until the Meredith decision two years ago) was mandated desegregation. Its wierd to see our neighbors to the North considering segregated schools. But, of course, Canada hasn't had a history of pushing African-Americans into inferior schools of their own.
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No...we reserved that for our aboriginal people. |
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blaseblasphemener
Joined: 01 Jun 2006 Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be
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Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:52 am Post subject: |
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Let's see how popular these kind of expensive programmes will be once Canada's tax base really dries up. Ahhhh, the ridiculous indulgences of a rich, Socialist state. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Location: retired
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Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:24 am Post subject: |
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blaseblasphemener wrote: |
Let's see how popular these kind of expensive programmes will be once Canada's tax base really dries up. Ahhhh, the ridiculous indulgences of a rich, Socialist state. |
A depression will shake the crazy out of many people. |
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kcs0001
Joined: 24 Jul 2005
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Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe they can achieve the results of Detroit, Michigan
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090301/OPINION03/903010308/1008/OPINION01
Sunday, March 1, 2009
Nolan Finley
Commentary: Elect a crazy council, get crazy results
Nowhere is Michigan's brain drain on greater display than in the Detroit City Council chambers.
My hopes for Detroit's future faded as I watched the tape of last Tuesday's council meeting, the one that considered the Cobo Center expansion deal.
It was a tragic circus, a festival of ignorance that confirmed the No. 1 obstacle to Detroit's progress is the bargain basement leaders that city voters elect. The black nationalism that is now the dominant ideology of the council was on proud display, both at the table and in the audience.
Speakers advocating for the deal were taunted by the crowd and cut short by Council President Monica Conyers, who presided over the hearing like an angry bulldog; whites were advised by the citizens to, "Go home."
Opponents were allowed to rant and ramble on uninterrupted about "those people" who want to steal Detroit's assets and profit from the city's labors.
A pitiful Teamster official who practically crawled to the table on his knees expressing profuse respect for this disrespectful body was battered by both the crowd and the council.
When he dared suggest that an improved Cobo Center would create more good-paying jobs for union workers, Conyers reminded him, "Those workers look like you; they don't look like me."
Desperate, he invoked President Barack Obama's message of unity and was angrily warned, "Don't yousay his name here."
Juxtapose the place and the faces and imagine a white Livonia City Council treating a black union representative with such overt racial hostility. The Justice Department would swoop down like a hawk, and the Rev. Al Sharpton would clog Five Mile Road with protesters.
But in Detroit, dealing with the council's bigotry is part of the cost of doing business. As is dealing with its incompetence. (I'll pause here and excuse from that indictment Sheila Cockrel and Brenda Jones, who supported the Cobo deal, as did Kwame Kenyatta, who although he's an avowed nationalist, most often votes in the city's best interests.)
Emmet Moten, the developer who just opened the Fort Shelby Hotel downtown, was at the meeting and found it appalling. Moten went to Lansing in 1983 on behalf of Mayor Coleman Young to successfully lobby for a regional tax to support Cobo.
"And now we're saying, 'We don't want your money,'" Moten says. "If Coleman were alive today, he'd be outraged. It hurts, it really hurts."
Now, Moten says, "we Detroiters gotta be outraged."
Outraged enough to go to the polls in November and elect a brighter, more responsible council. Moten and others I talked with this week are encouraged that mayoral primary voters picked Dave Bing and Ken Cockrel Jr., the two most rational candidates on the ballot.
The test now will be whether it's those primary voters or the angry council crowd who represent the real Detroit.
As Moten notes, "You can't fix this for us. We have to fix it ourselves."
Nobody can help Detroit if voters again elect a City Council composed of separatists, clueless dowagers and the apparently insane.
Nolan Finley is editorial page editor of The News. Reach him at [email protected] or (313) 222-2064. Watch him at 8:30 p.m. Fridays on "Am I Right?" on Detroit Public TV, Channel 56. |
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kcs0001
Joined: 24 Jul 2005
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Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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mises wrote: |
blaseblasphemener wrote: |
Let's see how popular these kind of expensive programmes will be once Canada's tax base really dries up. Ahhhh, the ridiculous indulgences of a rich, Socialist state. |
A depression will shake the crazy out of many people. |
Not necessarily true, mises, at least in the case of the lower 48.
Adverse selection by government has made the "poor" recession/depression proof.
This is the hard and dirty, and it varies a little depending on the state but it works something like this: The Department of Agriculture issues "Block Grants" which are alloted to the Nutrition assistance program.
The workers at the state level (normally referred to as Departments of Economic Security) make the determination of eligibility for a State EBT card that may include Food benefits or outright cash payments.
The incentive is for the state workers to enroll everyone they can before they get a Two-fer: they keep their state jobs, and the amount alloted for the next fiscal year or increased at least increased bases on CPI or so-called inflation index.
It is completely wraught with fraud. This is not well publicized because it would cause a huge outcry among taxpayers.
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."
Margaret Thatcher |
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aquaponics08

Joined: 22 Dec 2008 Location: Korea
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Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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Or Zimbabwe, Or South Africa, or Haiti, etc.... |
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kcs0001
Joined: 24 Jul 2005
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Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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Also I forgot to include in my rant before about EBT Food Stamps and Cash Assistance- they don't verify income. Imagine if you will, someone driving into a DES parking lot in a new Lexus IS 350. It happens all across the country every day.
Change we can believe in. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Location: retired
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Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:44 am Post subject: |
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kcs0001 wrote: |
Maybe they can achieve the results of Detroit, Michigan
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090301/OPINION03/903010308/1008/OPINION01
Sunday, March 1, 2009
Nolan Finley
Commentary: Elect a crazy council, get crazy results
Nowhere is Michigan's brain drain on greater display than in the Detroit City Council chambers.
My hopes for Detroit's future faded as I watched the tape of last Tuesday's council meeting, the one that considered the Cobo Center expansion deal.
It was a tragic circus, a festival of ignorance that confirmed the No. 1 obstacle to Detroit's progress is the bargain basement leaders that city voters elect. The black nationalism that is now the dominant ideology of the council was on proud display, both at the table and in the audience.
Speakers advocating for the deal were taunted by the crowd and cut short by Council President Monica Conyers, who presided over the hearing like an angry bulldog; whites were advised by the citizens to, "Go home."
Opponents were allowed to rant and ramble on uninterrupted about "those people" who want to steal Detroit's assets and profit from the city's labors.
A pitiful Teamster official who practically crawled to the table on his knees expressing profuse respect for this disrespectful body was battered by both the crowd and the council.
When he dared suggest that an improved Cobo Center would create more good-paying jobs for union workers, Conyers reminded him, "Those workers look like you; they don't look like me."
Desperate, he invoked President Barack Obama's message of unity and was angrily warned, "Don't yousay his name here."
Juxtapose the place and the faces and imagine a white Livonia City Council treating a black union representative with such overt racial hostility. The Justice Department would swoop down like a hawk, and the Rev. Al Sharpton would clog Five Mile Road with protesters.
But in Detroit, dealing with the council's bigotry is part of the cost of doing business. As is dealing with its incompetence. (I'll pause here and excuse from that indictment Sheila Cockrel and Brenda Jones, who supported the Cobo deal, as did Kwame Kenyatta, who although he's an avowed nationalist, most often votes in the city's best interests.)
Emmet Moten, the developer who just opened the Fort Shelby Hotel downtown, was at the meeting and found it appalling. Moten went to Lansing in 1983 on behalf of Mayor Coleman Young to successfully lobby for a regional tax to support Cobo.
"And now we're saying, 'We don't want your money,'" Moten says. "If Coleman were alive today, he'd be outraged. It hurts, it really hurts."
Now, Moten says, "we Detroiters gotta be outraged."
Outraged enough to go to the polls in November and elect a brighter, more responsible council. Moten and others I talked with this week are encouraged that mayoral primary voters picked Dave Bing and Ken Cockrel Jr., the two most rational candidates on the ballot.
The test now will be whether it's those primary voters or the angry council crowd who represent the real Detroit.
As Moten notes, "You can't fix this for us. We have to fix it ourselves."
Nobody can help Detroit if voters again elect a City Council composed of separatists, clueless dowagers and the apparently insane.
Nolan Finley is editorial page editor of The News. Reach him at [email protected] or (313) 222-2064. Watch him at 8:30 p.m. Fridays on "Am I Right?" on Detroit Public TV, Channel 56. |
That sure doesn't sound productive. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Location: retired
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Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:46 am Post subject: |
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kcs0001 wrote: |
Also I forgot to include in my rant before about EBT Food Stamps and Cash Assistance- they don't verify income. Imagine if you will, someone driving into a DES parking lot in a new Lexus IS 350. It happens all across the country every day.
Change we can believe in. |
I'm a pretty aggressive fiscal conservative. But I just can't get all worked up about stuff like this. AIG is 130b in now. And TARP etc. A little food stamp abuse is a drop in the bucket. |
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