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Goku
Joined: 10 Dec 2008
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 Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:56 pm Post subject: Is this a ridiculous expectation? |
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I often wonder if my perception a "teacher", is unrealistic.
Maybe I'm caught up imagining teachers are 40 something year olds, wearing velvet plaid coats, smoking a pipe while musing over TS Elliot...
My time here has taught me, that the majority of teachers I've seen don't live up to my standards of a teacher. So I'm wondering, as I'm typing up my lesson plans in my grey velvet blazer, and black tie... Am I being a percievable "tight wad" and judging others on an unreasonable standard?
So that begged the question what IS a teacher? We all have our own defintions and I'm not talking about the strict defintion of a person who teaches. I'm talking about the image and the connotaiton on hearing the word and what SHOULD be the approrpiate demeanor they carry.
I don't consider a fresh college grad who comes wearing a t-shirt, ripped jeans, and dishes out crosswords to be a teacher. I don't consider the vetran who spends his time womanizing (if you can call it that, more like whoring out) drinking, and basically on cruise control, a real teacher. But as a man of "reasonable" judgement (or what I consider it to be) am I using a yardstick when I should be using a foot long ruler?
I need some opinions on this matter.
What do you guys consider "teachers". Is there something that makes or breaks a teacher? |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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An interest, or lack of interest, in professional development is usually the best indicator. Someone who's an English teacher but can't write grammatically to save his life is providing another tell-tale sign. A willingness to go the extra mile at work for the sake of students would be another. The same goes for teachers who simply refuse to give up on students.
And believe it or not there are some real teachers who wear jeans and / or womanise. |
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Zantetsuken
Joined: 21 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:45 pm Post subject: Re: Is this a ridiculous expectation? |
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| Goku wrote: |
I often wonder if my perception a "teacher", is unrealistic.
Maybe I'm caught up imagining teachers are 40 something year olds, wearing velvet plaid coats, smoking a pipe while musing over TS Elliot...
My time here has taught me, that the majority of teachers I've seen don't live up to my standards of a teacher. So I'm wondering, as I'm typing up my lesson plans in my grey velvet blazer, and black tie... Am I being a percievable "tight wad" and judging others on an unreasonable standard?
So that begged the question what IS a teacher? We all have our own defintions and I'm not talking about the strict defintion of a person who teaches. I'm talking about the image and the connotaiton on hearing the word and what SHOULD be the approrpiate demeanor they carry.
I don't consider a fresh college grad who comes wearing a t-shirt, ripped jeans, and dishes out crosswords to be a teacher. I don't consider the vetran who spends his time womanizing (if you can call it that, more like whoring out) drinking, and basically on cruise control, a real teacher. But as a man of "reasonable" judgement (or what I consider it to be) am I using a yardstick when I should be using a foot long ruler?
I need some opinions on this matter.
What do you guys consider "teachers". Is there something that makes or breaks a teacher? |
Dude we get it...if a white guy in Korea is wearing a "Megadeth" T-shirt and faded jeans and not rocking the armani/shiny silver suit...then he is a piece of spam to you. You don't need to reiterate your stance on this subject. |
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Goku
Joined: 10 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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I was under the assumption not everyone was following around my posts and reading everything I said.
But you are right, it's not the ripped jeans that breaks a teacher... My question is, what do you think of when you hear the word teacher?
Back in my homecountry, Most people think of a woman with glasses, ruler, a book, and an apple and a major case of the "needs to get some" (sorry for the immature joke, but it was rather true when I was a student as it is now).
I saw some people on another thread claim the other person was a teacher. And I see all the time "Omg I can't belive you are a teacher"
Can a teacher be a biggot and still be a good teacher? Can a teacher have no sexual morals and still be a good teacher? I'm more inclined to think no and I want to know what others think of the matter. |
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nycgrl99
Joined: 11 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Can a teacher be a biggot and still be a good teacher? Can a teacher have no sexual morals and still be a good teacher? I'm more inclined to think no and I want to know what others think of the matter. |
this is an interesting thread, i like it.
i think a teacher is someone who teaches students. as simple as that. whether you're good or bad - you're still a teacher. there are OBJECTIVELY bad teachers like those who (1) are significantly underqualified and are not willing to try to improve, (2) don't care about their students or about teaching, (3) use absolutely zero creativity in the classroom.
but when starting to call somebody a good teacher, there are a lot of gray areas. i consider my co-teacher a good teacher - she is excellent with our 3rd grade students (they love her and she knows how to keep them in line) and knows EXACTLY when to translate and when to stay out of my way. we get along great. my 4th grade co-teacher, however, has told me on several occasions that she doesn't think my 3rd grade co-teacher is a good teacher because she is not forceful enough with the kids, she doesn't translate enough and she is way too obsessive about keeping our classroom clean. so i think "good" is in the 눈 of the beholder.
another question to consider: what is the role of a teacher? is it to teach the subject to which we are assiged? is it to teach how to learn? is it to teach values? is it to babysit? etc etc. |
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michaelambling
Joined: 31 Dec 2008
Location: Paradise
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| Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:29 pm Post subject: Re: Is this a ridiculous expectation? |
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| Goku wrote: |
I often wonder if my perception a "teacher", is unrealistic.
Maybe I'm caught up imagining teachers are 40 something year olds, wearing velvet plaid coats, smoking a pipe while musing over TS Elliot... |
That's interesting--you describe a teacher in purely superficial terms (except the Eliot, of course). The biggest womanizer I've ever known was an Eliot expert, and he spent a lot of time whoring in Asia. He's also a genius and a brilliant teacher.
| Quote: |
| My time here has taught me, that the majority of teachers I've seen don't live up to my standards of a teacher. So I'm wondering, as I'm typing up my lesson plans in my grey velvet blazer, and black tie... Am I being a percievable "tight wad" and judging others on an unreasonable standard? |
I think the simple answer is "yes". Teachers are human beings too, and what they do outside the classroom is ENTIRELY their own business.
| Quote: |
| So that begged the question what IS a teacher? We all have our own defintions and I'm not talking about the strict defintion of a person who teaches. I'm talking about the image and the connotaiton on hearing the word and what SHOULD be the approrpiate demeanor they carry. |
Again, there you go talking about image--image doesn't mean a damn thing. What matters is--can you teach? Are you passing information to students, are they retaining that information, and is the experience pleasant for all parties concerned? These are the only things that matter for a teacher. A teacher doesn't have to like his students, wear tweed, or be a monk to be a good teacher--in fact, some of the worst teachers I've known have been uptight, heavily obsessed with morals aficionados of tweed and pipes.
| Quote: |
| I don't consider a fresh college grad who comes wearing a t-shirt, ripped jeans, and dishes out crosswords to be a teacher. I don't consider the vetran who spends his time womanizing (if you can call it that, more like whoring out) drinking, and basically on cruise control, a real teacher. But as a man of "reasonable" judgement (or what I consider it to be) am I using a yardstick when I should be using a foot long ruler? |
Again, look at your fascination with clothing. Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak reinvented the computer industry in jeans and t-shirts--do the clothes really make the man, or are you just shallow?
| Quote: |
I need some opinions on this matter.
What do you guys consider "teachers". Is there something that makes or breaks a teacher? |
I think you take life and yourself too seriously. I've seen this tendency in your posts; don't get me wrong--I'm sure you're a great person--but you really need to chill out. Being overly tense and anxious doesn't make one a good teacher. And being obsessed with the surface and not the substance doesn't help, either.[/quote] |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Goku wrote: |
Can a teacher be a biggot and still be a good teacher? Can a teacher have no sexual morals and still be a good teacher? I'm more inclined to think no and I want to know what others think of the matter. |
I don't see why not. I've had teachers who were clearly homophobes and I've had a couple uni profs who were flaming faggo... I mean open gays, all of whom were good teachers. The guy to whom I'd give the prize for 'worst teacher I ever had' was a family man, chruch-goer, and teetotaler.
Generally I find that those who think that people in authority should have the same morals as them tend to have self-righteousness complexes or issues. |
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nycgrl99
Joined: 11 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Goku wrote: |
Can a teacher be a biggot and still be a good teacher? Can a teacher have no sexual morals and still be a good teacher? I'm more inclined to think no and I want to know what others think of the matter. |
in theory, the sexual orientation/ideological beliefs of the teacher shouldn't matter, since the teacher shouldn't be sharing their opinions on controversial matters with their young, naive students anyway.
Last edited by nycgrl99 on Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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kiknkorea
Joined: 16 May 2008
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| Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Goku wrote: |
| Can a teacher be a biggot and still be a good teacher? Can a teacher have no sexual morals and still be a good teacher? I'm more inclined to think no and I want to know what others think of the matter. |
I'm convinced someone can be either and be an outstanding teacher (even if they may be unbearable to be around.)
I think of many of the teachers I had in school and I know some were racist and/or immoral but still were able to teach what they knew to students.
And going back further, think of how many biggot teachers must have been around 50 or so years ago. I'm sure some were also very good teachers. |
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Goku
Joined: 10 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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I do think Clothing are clues rather than indicators.
For example, I can tell a person is serious about their job if they wear professional clothing. Someone who is not professional will wear a "7 up yours T-Shirt" . Nowhere is this a positive affirmation but definately a good clue. I don't think there is any dissention about this fact. There are gray areas and excptions of course, but generally this will be the case.
But besides appearances, the topic of "moral" fiber in being a good teacher really makes me wonder. What is the standard of a good teacher then if we had an immoral teacher?
I tend to associate a teacher as much as outside the classroom as inside the classroom. I woudln't think it appropriate behavior for a teacher to go to a room salon outside of work nor throw glass bottles at the locals (which I've heard has happened before). And I know of teachers that have doen this.
These are extreme cases but actions outside the classroom dictate what kind of person you are. It's true a good teacher can be great with kids and a wonderful teacher and go out on saturday nights clubbing. But could someone be a good teacher and let's say a murderer? That's a highly extreme case but that makes me want to question where is the limit? . Or what about doing drugs? The question goes to the people who do bad things should be teachers to our kids?
I compare it to the West. Any teacher found guilty of such infractions usually are fired, suspended, or some critical action is taken. Obviously, in Korea it's the same case, but I find it more common that immoral (but not illegal) behavior occuring, particularly with foreign teachers.
These are just questions of course to elicit opinions. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Goku wrote: |
I do think Clothing are clues rather than indicators.
For example, I can tell a person is serious about their job if they wear professional clothing. Someone who is not professional will wear a "7 up yours T-Shirt" . Nowhere is this a positive affirmation but definately a good clue. I don't think there is any dissention about this fact. There are gray areas and excptions of course, but generally this will be the case.
But besides appearances, the topic of "moral" fiber in being a good teacher really makes me wonder. What is the standard of a good teacher then if we had an immoral teacher?
I tend to associate a teacher as much as outside the classroom as inside the classroom. I woudln't think it appropriate behavior for a teacher to go to a room salon |
...So then what % of male Korean teachers do you think are unprofessional? 80%? 90%? 95%? |
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Goku
Joined: 10 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| nycgrl99 wrote: |
| Goku wrote: |
Can a teacher be a biggot and still be a good teacher? Can a teacher have no sexual morals and still be a good teacher? I'm more inclined to think no and I want to know what others think of the matter. |
in theory, the sexual orientation/ideological beliefs of the teacher shouldn't matter, since the teacher shouldn't be sharing their opinions on controversial matters with their young, naive students anyway. |
I didn't mean sexual orientation though. As I'm advocate for gay rights I don't think it would have any bearing on teaching ability or the persons moral fiber.
However, excessive whoring out and promescuity is generally considered immoral. While that doesn't have an effective on the teachers teaching ability persay... but there is some looming thought that parents don't want some 51ut (man or woman) teaching their kids...
Or that's the idea at least.
Last edited by Goku on Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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berrieh
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
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| Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Goku wrote: |
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Can a teacher be a biggot and still be a good teacher? Can a teacher have no sexual morals and still be a good teacher? I'm more inclined to think no and I want to know what others think of the matter. |
I would think it would depend on what they were teaching, who they were teaching, and to what degree they were immoral and/or bigoted.
I'll second the idea that professional development is often what distinguishes a real/good teacher from a fake/bad one. I think that applies here in the U.S. as well.
As far as the focus on clothes go... Most teachers in the U.S. don't dress that well. Plenty of jeans at the schools here and dirty/rumpled and frumpy/faded clothes. I was in a middle school just today. Horrible frump all around.
| Goku wrote: |
These are extreme cases but actions outside the classroom dictate what kind of person you are. It's true a good teacher can be great with kids and a wonderful teacher and go out on saturday nights clubbing. But could someone be a good teacher and let's say a murderer? That's a highly extreme case but that makes me want to question where is the limit? . Or what about doing drugs? The question goes to the people who do bad things should be teachers to our kids?
I compare it to the West. Any teacher found guilty of such infractions usually are fired, suspended, or some critical action is taken. Obviously, in Korea it's the same case, but I find it more common that immoral (but not illegal) behavior occuring, particularly with foreign teachers.
These are just questions of course to elicit opinions. |
I don't know any murderers (I hope not!), but I daresay that murderers don't make good professionals of any stripe. Being in jail generally puts a dent in a career.
I imagine if you looked at young, single teachers in the West, you'd see plenty of "bad behavior" (if you really knew them/saw them outside of school). Sure, 45-year-old teachers who are Moms of 3 aren't going to be getting plastered and whoring on week nights (probably not) but most of the young teachers here party harder than the people I worked with in advertising... plenty of potentially "immoral" behavior. |
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Zantetsuken
Joined: 21 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Goku is definitely a fashion nut. He wrote up a big "how to be a fashionable male" (ala Ben Affleck in Mallrats) piece not too long ago on here so he obviously has a hate-on for dudes who aren't fashionable. Remember that Mountain Dew slogan "Image is nothing. Obey your thirst" Words to live by....... |
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Michelle
Joined: 18 May 2003
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| Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:43 pm Post subject: Re: Is this a ridiculous expectation? |
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| Goku wrote: |
I often wonder if my perception a "teacher", is unrealistic.
Maybe I'm caught up imagining teachers are 40 something year olds, wearing velvet plaid coats, smoking a pipe while musing over TS Elliot...
My time here has taught me, that the majority of teachers I've seen don't live up to my standards of a teacher. So I'm wondering, as I'm typing up my lesson plans in my grey velvet blazer, and black tie... Am I being a percievable "tight wad" and judging others on an unreasonable standard?
So that begged the question what IS a teacher? We all have our own defintions and I'm not talking about the strict defintion of a person who teaches. I'm talking about the image and the connotaiton on hearing the word and what SHOULD be the approrpiate demeanor they carry.
I don't consider a fresh college grad who comes wearing a t-shirt, ripped jeans, and dishes out crosswords to be a teacher. I don't consider the vetran who spends his time womanizing (if you can call it that, more like whoring out) drinking, and basically on cruise control, a real teacher. But as a man of "reasonable" judgement (or what I consider it to be) am I using a yardstick when I should be using a foot long ruler?
I need some opinions on this matter.
What do you guys consider "teachers". Is there something that makes or breaks a teacher? |
Hi There,
While the epitomy of the educated professor is still alive and well back home, as ESL instructors the same level of education is not always needed.
Remember people though, you are the ESL product. Someone at any age can teach ABC's in a tracksuit or in a jacket. The choice is yours. A teacher is one who educates others and adjusts clothing if it will increase or generate attention and respect.
I would suggest the latter for reasons below.....
The clothes you wear are seen by others everyday and reflect on you and your classes.
We are the representatives. If we can not be bothered it says a lot about our opinions.
We are in a country where teaching is considered a high profession and people generally look neat and tidy.
Choices now may affect later decisions.
Appearance in general is given too much weight in Korea however, rather then an academic appearance which you describe.
As for outside activities, if your job indicates that there would be research excessive work outside of class hours or an obligation to the academic community, there is a reason we do not want to see you at the bar at 2pm.
For us it shouldn't matter except inevitably the school reputation suffers.
My public school warned about breaking Korean law, that's all. Here going drinking only makes you one of many.
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