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seethetraffic

Joined: 22 Nov 2005 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:54 pm Post subject: This KT article addresses Korean "rudeness". |
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written by a Professor at "Maryland University College"; I think relevant to anyone working (thus the Job Discussion Forum post) and/or living with Koreans
03-06-2009 19:31 in the Korea Times
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/opinon/2009/03/272_40850.html
Title: Koreans Are Individually Kind, but Collectively Rude
By Jon Huer
Korea Times Columnist
Observing and reflecting on the recent tragedy in Yongsan, where the resettlement dispute between the displaced and the law took a tragic turn, leaving seven people dead, including one police officer, one wonders why public discourse, and not confrontations, is so rare in Korea, leading one to conclude that Korea urgently needs to establish a way of life based on the concept of ``public.''
Public stands somewhere between the ``nation'' and the ``individual,'' thus facilitating a large measure of resolution on disputes between the nation and the individual that are inevitable in any society. It is a stage all tribes must go through in order to enjoy the benefits of modernity.
The so-called advanced societies have gone through this stage of ``public-making'' earlier and more successfully, often accompanied by violence. Tribal societies, perhaps modern in form, lack this concept of public and suffer and display all the signs of backward members in the world community.
The Yongsan tragedy, one of the many such events in Korea, makes one recognize how urgently Korea needs to become a ``public society.''
In spite of the mushrooming of the non-government organizations (NGOs) that have sprung up in recent years, their presence merely adds more conflict than it resolves and obfuscates issues more than it clarifies them through discourse.
Further, their active participation in this or that issue has mostly strengthened the idea of Korea as a permanently in-fighting tribe.
Naturally, Korea's strong tribalism is in dramatic contrast with the absence of its more modern, institutionalized counterpart, the ``public.''
The concept of ``public'' is still alien in Korea. Koreans do not identify other Koreans as members of a public society with similarly shared and institutionalized values and rules of life.
Rather, they tend to identify other Koreans as either someone they are related to in some way usually by blood, region, school ties, or even broadly as ``Koreans,'' or someone who is ``persona non grata'' (a non-human being), who stands outside of such intimate circles.
If perceived as part of the first group, you get Korea's legendary hospitality. If you are perceived as part of the second group, say, strangers on a street or in a public place, you get Korea's equally legendary rudeness and indifference.
Because of the absence of a ``public'' where strangers relate to one another in an established, orderly way of interaction, Koreans can be the most gracious host, but also the most indifferent and savage.
This is most glaringly evident when one observes Korean behavior in ``public'' places, such as on the street, where many seem to be unaware that they are in a public place.
The famously nasty behavior displayed in Internet exchanges may be thought of as the electronic version of street behavior.
Today, advanced societies are defined, among other criteria, by the presence or absence of a strong ``public.''
In those societies, public has replaced ``motherland,'' ``nation'' or ``tribe.'' In the Netherlands (Holland), for example, whether one is American, Japanese or Nigerian does not have a dramatic effect in the way one is treated.
In England, for another example, the English are not radically different in the way they behave whether they are among friends or out on public streets. In America, even illegal foreigners are treated with a certain reference to their basic constitutional rights.
This absence of a public sphere makes Korea an unpredictable place largely dependent on the moods of the moment.
A Korean can be sweet, wonderful, and conscientious in his private sphere. When he is in public, however, he recognizes nothing and nobody else but his own existence.
Individual Koreans can be nice to a poor Philipino or a hungry Bengali. But as a nation, and a public, Korea is also known to be very rude and indifferent to those from poor countries. The heart, that is, the very embodiment of humanity individually, can also be the very representative of narrow-mindedness and even cruel tribalism.
It is the general consensus of many foreigners who understand Korea that, very urgently, Korea needs to develop a public, an institutionalized model of society where rules and consensus, not just the personal tugs of the heart, which can be whimsical and unpredictable, are upheld.
Even many Koreans themselves lament that the Korean heart should be institutionalized into the ``Korean public'' or the ``Korean policy'' in place of unending confrontations.
The writer can be reached at [email protected] . The opinions expressed and the observations described in these articles are strictly the writer's own and do not represent any official position of the University of Maryland University College or the USFK.
Last edited by seethetraffic on Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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cruisemonkey

Joined: 04 Jul 2005 Location: Hopefully, the same place as my luggage.
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Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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Jebus H. Christos... Jon is a prof. at the University of Maryland... and probably wonders why 'Americans' - collectively, not as individuals - are almost universally despised.  |
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Yu_Bum_suk

Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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cruisemonkey wrote: |
Jebus H. Christos... Jon is a prof. at the University of Maryland... and probably wonders why 'Americans' - collectively, not as individuals - are almost universally despised.  |
LOL. |
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bogey666

Joined: 17 Mar 2008 Location: Korea, the ass free zone
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Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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cruisemonkey wrote: |
Jebus H. Christos... Jon is a prof. at the University of Maryland... and probably wonders why 'Americans' - collectively, not as individuals - are almost universally despised.  |
I've probably travelled around the world a little more than you..
and taking away the George W. Bush years... are you quite SURE??? they are "universally despised"???
in many many places, I'd beg to differ. American tourists are heavily in demand in many places because for all their negatives, they easily outspend everyone else by a factor of two plus and are more easily duped into overpaying for something by a factor of two plus. |
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Thunndarr

Joined: 30 Sep 2003
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Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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cruisemonkey wrote: |
Jebus H. Christos... Jon is a prof. at the University of Maryland... and probably wonders why 'Americans' - collectively, not as individuals - are almost universally despised.  |
Sounds like you've got an inferiority complex. |
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jkelly80

Joined: 13 Jun 2007 Location: you boys like mexico?
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Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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How quickly this became about 'MERICA.
This was a spot on article. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 4:57 pm Post subject: Re: This KT article addresses Korean "rudeness". |
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seethetraffic wrote: |
written by a Professor at "Maryland University College" |
Don't know why you put the name of the school in quotes; it's the real name of a real school. |
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cruisemonkey

Joined: 04 Jul 2005 Location: Hopefully, the same place as my luggage.
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Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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As the originator of the 'mistake' I stand corrected -  |
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cruisemonkey

Joined: 04 Jul 2005 Location: Hopefully, the same place as my luggage.
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Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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Thunndarr wrote: |
Sounds like you've got an inferiority complex. |
Of course... I was the mouse living next to the elephant. However, my inferiority complex is not a largee as the K's.  |
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Juregen
Joined: 30 May 2006
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Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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I indeed concur that this article is spot on.
But it won't avail to change much. It is going to take time and many more encounters with foreigners. |
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poet13
Joined: 22 Jan 2006 Location: Just over there....throwing lemons.
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Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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I think the author put words well to an intangible that most of us have experienced. No idea why the US was brought into it.
EDIT: Go Terps! |
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cruisemonkey

Joined: 04 Jul 2005 Location: Hopefully, the same place as my luggage.
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Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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"My family has had trouble with foreigners ever since they came to this country." - Charles Emmerson Winchester
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Ukon
Joined: 29 Jan 2008
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Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: |
The famously nasty behavior displayed in Internet exchanges may be thought of as the electronic version of street behavior.
Today, advanced societies are defined, among other criteria, by the presence or absence of a strong ``public.''
In those societies, public has replaced ``motherland,'' ``nation'' or ``tribe.'' In the Netherlands (Holland), for example, whether one is American, Japanese or Nigerian does not have a dramatic effect in the way one is treated. |
I can't speak about the netherlands, but many "friendly" countries don't roll out the red carpet for "certain" types of people. Is there ANY middle eastern, South east asian, and Indian folks who write about travel?? Hearing old white guys proclaim such "broad proclamations" isn't really an acurate assesment....
I call bull on this article, These people are nicer than than the states....maybe not as publicly nice as Japan.
As for the assholes online....that's becuase many korean kids play compared to the states....most kids back home play on consoles while koreans kids are on computers....Ask anybody who's ever played xbox live. I bet you a million this guy hasn't....it's pretty appalling sometimes....Especially if your not white(with even a slight accent) or *gasp* a female. I love the "N****" comments I got from 12 yr. kids trying to get a rise out of me. |
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bogey666

Joined: 17 Mar 2008 Location: Korea, the ass free zone
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Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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Ukon wrote: |
Quote: |
The famously nasty behavior displayed in Internet exchanges may be thought of as the electronic version of street behavior.
Today, advanced societies are defined, among other criteria, by the presence or absence of a strong ``public.''
In those societies, public has replaced ``motherland,'' ``nation'' or ``tribe.'' In the Netherlands (Holland), for example, whether one is American, Japanese or Nigerian does not have a dramatic effect in the way one is treated. |
I can't speak about the netherlands, but many "friendly" countries don't roll out the red carpet for "certain" types of people. Is there ANY middle eastern, South east asian, and Indian folks who write about travel?? Hearing old white guys proclaim such "broad proclamations" isn't really an acurate assesment....
I call bull on this article, These people are nicer than than the states....maybe not as publicly nice as Japan.
As for the assholes online....that's becuase many korean kids play compared to the states....most kids back home play on consoles while koreans kids are on computers....Ask anybody who's ever played xbox live. I bet you a million this guy hasn't....it's pretty appalling sometimes....Especially if your not white(with even a slight accent) or *gasp* a female. I love the "N****" comments I got from 12 yr. kids trying to get a rise out of me. |
are you sure they're trying to get a rise out of you? (I'm assuming you're referring to Koreans)
or are they mindlessly repeating what they hear in rap videos?
and trying to call you their homey?
sometimes one reaps what one sows. |
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