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pogoro
Joined: 27 Apr 2008
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 Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:52 am Post subject: Can a scummy hagwon owner cancel my visa? |
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So I hand in my resignation for two months hence. So the boss says, no, you have to resign in 3 days. So I says, no, I don't want to resign then. Then the boss says, yes, you will.
Then he says, here's your ticket: you are leaving in 4 days. You have to get out of the apt. then. Then he says he is going to immigration to cancel my visa. Then I have to leave.
So I hire a lawyer.
So tell me, fellow whiners on this site: is it worth the hassle? Or should I then say, so be it.
Seriously: Can he do that? Can he go to Immigration, willy-nilly, and cancel my visa? |
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Shapur
Joined: 27 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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Yes
And in fairness he's not canceling your visa 'willy nilly'.
You resigned remember?
Perhaps replacing "canceling my visa willy nilly" with "canceling my visa much quicker than I anticipated" might be a better choice of words.
You also mentioned that he gave you your airline ticket.
It sounds like he's treated you pretty fairly and payed you straight.
I'd say leave.
He's out of order in booting you out so quickly, but on the scale of crappy wonjangnim behavior this is about as minor as it gets. |
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Juregen
Joined: 30 May 2006
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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I cannot but agree ...with the second poster.
you are the one breaking the contract. What is he going to do with you the next two months when you are not motivated to do your job? A negative element within the organization.
The 1 or 2 months is the protection of the employee, not the employer, when the employee is canceling the contract and vica versa. If he then decides to end the agreement sooner, I guess it is his prerogative as well.
Maybe he is out of order, but the hagwons rely on stability of their teacher, if every teacher cannot respect their end of the deal, the owner will have to implement other means to stabilize HR. And most implementations will make it harder for anyone. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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Look. He's not "breaking the contract." He's availing himself of both the law and the terms of the contract for terminating his employment earlier than the expiration date of the contracted term. The boss firing him is a punitive measure for the OP complying with both the law and the terms of the contract.
The poster above is guessing, as they said, and guessing wrong. The term of notice is for the benefit of both parties. The employee did "respect their end of the deal." They provided the required term of notice. The boss, on the other hand, has committed an unlawful dismissal. Furthermore, I saw nothing regarding payment in lieu of notice to employee of termination. |
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Draz
Joined: 27 Jun 2007
Location: Land of Morning Clam
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:07 pm Post subject: Re: Can a scummy hagwon owner cancel my visa? |
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| pogoro wrote: |
So I hand in my resignation for two months hence. So the boss says, no, you have to resign in 3 days. So I says, no, I don't want to resign then. Then the boss says, yes, you will.
Then he says, here's your ticket: you are leaving in 4 days. You have to get out of the apt. then. Then he says he is going to immigration to cancel my visa. Then I have to leave.
So I hire a lawyer.
So tell me, fellow whiners on this site: is it worth the hassle? Or should I then say, so be it.
Seriously: Can he do that? Can he go to Immigration, willy-nilly, and cancel my visa? |
Uhhhhh. What did the lawyer say?? |
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tob55
Joined: 29 Apr 2007
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:22 pm Post subject: Actually. . . |
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Actually, the hagwon owner is required by Korean labor law to provide you with notice as specified in your employment contract, UNLESS you have broken the law or committed some violation that allows him or her to terminate your employment on the spot.
Sounds like you haven't had a positive experience at the hagwon anyway. Yes, he can go to immigration and cancel your visa anytime he wants, but it is the matter of the termination. You turned in a two month notice, which is required. The employer then says "no, you have to leave now." Are you getting the picture here. Employers can't at will decide to terminate you simply because you turned in your notice.
HOWEVER, in light of your conversation with the hagwon owner, you might just as well leave, since fighting it is going to cost you time and money, and once the visa is canceled you only have a short time to leave the country. I believe, you have yourself in corner that is going to be hard to get out of, but the decision is yours. I hope it works out, whatever the case. |
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ChinaBoy
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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| He's giving you a free ticket. You're getting more at the end than most people do. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| This is actually yet another wonderful example of how ridiculous HR is in the so-called hagweon industry. The OP did the honorable thing and notified his boss that he would no longer be working there sixty days hence. The boss, instead of doing the intelligent thing and searching for someone new while at the same time having a teacher on site, simply reacted with what's essentially a temper tantrum: "You can't quit, you're fired as of now!" Firing the current teacher will not get the boss a new teacher any sooner. |
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Khyron
Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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Moral of the story is:
midnight runners are your friend if you aren't going to finish a contract. Employers pulling this sh!t and the labour law's "protection" don't give a better option. |
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Michelle
Joined: 18 May 2003
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:00 pm Post subject: One of mine did... |
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Hi There,
One of my hagwon owners went and cancelled my visa upon verbal agreement. That is, I was informed by them after the fact and I had no say in it. It was completely legal but not marked in the passport.
So, in the future if they tell you they have and you are not sure, I suggest calling immigration. They will tell you to leave Korea immediately.
Mine kept my months pay...hope yours is not so bad. |
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Juregen
Joined: 30 May 2006
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| CentralCali wrote: |
| This is actually yet another wonderful example of how ridiculous HR is in the so-called hagweon industry. The OP did the honorable thing and notified his boss that he would no longer be working there sixty days hence. The boss, instead of doing the intelligent thing and searching for someone new while at the same time having a teacher on site, simply reacted with what's essentially a temper tantrum: "You can't quit, you're fired as of now!" Firing the current teacher will not get the boss a new teacher any sooner. |
You never worked in a company, I am assuming. If you work with sensitive inside knowledge. the first thing they do is cut you off from more information, and make you sign a waiver that you don't speak about internal information. Then you can go.
Given the teachers position, you are working with children, and your attitude is very very important. If in that last month, you work with an attitude of an ass, he will loose his students. So for him its better to cut his loss and find replacement.
It could be too dangerous for him to keep you in, without trust there can be no cooperation. |
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MrRogers
Joined: 29 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| CentralCali is correct! |
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Juregen
Joined: 30 May 2006
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Khyron wrote: |
Moral of the story is:
midnight runners are your friend if you aren't going to finish a contract. Employers pulling this sh!t and the labour law's "protection" don't give a better option. |
Worst advise ever. It is because there are some a-holes running that the schools become hard dealing and untrustworthy.
A little bit of professionalism would go much farther.
I am on the other side of the fence, and someone pulling a runner would ruin any reputation I have in my environment, killing of my chances to grow and operate. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Juregen wrote: |
| CentralCali wrote: |
| This is actually yet another wonderful example of how ridiculous HR is in the so-called hagweon industry. The OP did the honorable thing and notified his boss that he would no longer be working there sixty days hence. The boss, instead of doing the intelligent thing and searching for someone new while at the same time having a teacher on site, simply reacted with what's essentially a temper tantrum: "You can't quit, you're fired as of now!" Firing the current teacher will not get the boss a new teacher any sooner. |
You never worked in a company, I am assuming. |
You assume incorrectly. I have worked as an HR manager.
| Quote: |
If you work with sensitive inside knowledge. the first thing they do is cut you off from more information, and make you sign a waiver that you don't speak about internal information. Then you can go.
Given the teachers position, you are working with children, and your attitude is very very important. If in that last month, you work with an attitude of an ass, he will loose his students. So for him its better to cut his loss and find replacement.
It could be too dangerous for him to keep you in, without trust there can be no cooperation. |
That is far and away the most asinine apologist comment I've ever read on this board to justify the completely unethical and immoral, not to mention illegal, behavior of an employer. |
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Juregen
Joined: 30 May 2006
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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| CentralCali wrote: |
| Juregen wrote: |
| CentralCali wrote: |
| This is actually yet another wonderful example of how ridiculous HR is in the so-called hagweon industry. The OP did the honorable thing and notified his boss that he would no longer be working there sixty days hence. The boss, instead of doing the intelligent thing and searching for someone new while at the same time having a teacher on site, simply reacted with what's essentially a temper tantrum: "You can't quit, you're fired as of now!" Firing the current teacher will not get the boss a new teacher any sooner. |
You never worked in a company, I am assuming. |
You assume incorrectly. I have worked as an HR manager.
| Quote: |
If you work with sensitive inside knowledge. the first thing they do is cut you off from more information, and make you sign a waiver that you don't speak about internal information. Then you can go.
Given the teachers position, you are working with children, and your attitude is very very important. If in that last month, you work with an attitude of an ass, he will loose his students. So for him its better to cut his loss and find replacement.
It could be too dangerous for him to keep you in, without trust there can be no cooperation. |
That is far and away the most asinine apologist comment I've ever read on this board to justify the completely unethical and immoral, not to mention illegal, behavior of an employer. |
Apologist?
I am by far an apologist, but I do understand the sensitive place you hold within the work environment, as a teacher.
I hire people myself, and I hold my breath for the bad effect they can have on my operations.
if you employee 10 people, then even 1 bad apple can ruin everything. When you hire hundreds of people, that one guy of isn't going to make as much of a dent, but they still can do horrible damage if they control sensitive information.
I can understand why relative uneducated people in the hagwon business play these dirty games, it comes down to their own weakness of managing foreign employees. They just don't know how, except by extreme measures.
But if one of my teachers decides to curtail his employment, I will try to minimize this negative impact as much as I can. Not all these teachers have the same professionalism as you are imposing on the hagwon owners. I see the lack of professionalism in all these college kids as one source of all the illegal stuff going around. Ofcourse, they hire them, but is it that much to ask to adhere to some basic workplace offers.
The reason why a lot of young graduates find it hard to find any job, is because no one wants to hire a person with ZERO work experience. No work experience often results in no work being done.
I am the first to lament the HR situation in this country regarding foreign teachers, but the knife cuts both ways. |
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