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What the *beep* is (Korean) top down teaching?
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slideaway77



Joined: 16 Jul 2007

PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 2:54 am    Post subject: What the *beep* is (Korean) top down teaching? Reply with quote

I need some good advice. I'm a month into my public high school contract. Last year I worked in a Hagwon but done a CELTA part-time and managed to secure myself a good public school gig in Seoul- all well and good, but it's looking ropey now.

I love my school, I get on well with the other teachers, and I'm popular with the kids however the job is nothing like I expected. I have a Korean co/"boss" teacher who wants me to take top/down teaching approach to my classes and focus on conversation. My first reaction was fine I can do this, but now I feel like I'm chasing my tail in this job. I done what I thought she wanted but apparently i shouldn't do exactly what she wants? I have no problem creating lessons myself but because I have to defer to the co/boss teacher for the lessons I feel quite redundant.
I learn't to teach a certain way on my CELTA but this isn't what she wants. She brought a textbook which I have to use for lesson plans. I hate the book because it's rubbish and she briefs me on "my" lessons the way she wants it done.
I thought I'd just do what she asked and it would be ok but she struggles to articulate what she wants and I find it hard to visualise what she briefs because she can't express herself well in English I told her this and she acknowledges the communication problems. Depite my best efforts at diplomacy she has said I am direct and abrupt. (In a nice way of course..)

Does anyone know anything about top/down teaching? or have any links? Apparently I have to talk about my culture compared to K culture then get across the main idea of the lesson as opposed to eliciting it from the kids (in my case a part of conversation.) It also seems to not involve any fun stuff so the kids will love it.

It's fustrating - I know its Korea. I spent months learning how to teach the CELTA way only to find I need to take another approach now. I spend all week preparing lessons to have her turn around and say they are doing it their way regardless what I show them..it's bollocks because I'm taking them proven lesson plans I used in my CELTA/training for the job.
Additionally I have a Korean/Canadian part-time teacher working with me who can't understand the boss teacher's briefings eitheir.
I'm worried they/she is looking for excuses and planning to get rid of me. I think she'd prefer a Korean speaking teacher over me- maybe the part-timer as she is shit hot but she's the back seat driver at the moment.
It's all very nice at the moment but I'm worried the shit is going to hit the fan if this goes on and on. There's only so much I can take. I just don't get where she is coming from?

Please: only answers about advice after the day I've had the last thing I want to discuss is grammar or spelling..
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VanIslander



Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!

PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teach it your way.
Smile and be nice when advice is given and mentally put it in file 13.
Keeping teaching your way.
Keep smiling when advice is given (there's lots of room in file 13).
They can fire you for teaching it your way if they want. They won't though.

Understand your own role in your problem there slideaway77.
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Cheonmunka



Joined: 04 Jun 2004

PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good on you for having Celta. That's (one of) the best thing on your teaching creds. Do most things your way, I agree. Give a little here and there as well. Sometimes you can learn a new way out of the Korean way, even if it just means getting to grips with the way that students expect learning structure to be.
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harlowethrombey



Joined: 17 Mar 2009
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They hired a western teacher. Teach western style. If they want top-down korean education they can do that in the 99% of the rest of the classes the students take.

VI is right, teach how you want. The kids will like it more.

When asked if you're doing 'top-down' education just say yes. After a few months, if backed into a corner, you can say 'Oh, but this is top-down in the west!' Very Happy

good luck
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ChinaBoy



Joined: 17 Feb 2007

PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I hear the "teach top-down, top-down!!!" all the time.

No one has ever explained it to me. When asked, they just say "top-down!", which obviously means they don't know either.
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agoodmouse



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Location: Anyang

PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congratulations on taking the time and making the effort to get your CELTA. It's the best teaching certificate. Be glad you didn't waste your time on an online "teaching" certificate.
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hugekebab



Joined: 05 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 5:45 pm    Post subject: Re: What the *beep* is (Korean) top down teaching? Reply with quote

slideaway77 wrote:
I need some good advice. I'm a month into my public high school contract. Last year I worked in a Hagwon but done a CELTA part-time and managed to secure myself a good public school gig in Seoul- all well and good, but it's looking ropey now.

I love my school, I get on well with the other teachers, and I'm popular with the kids however the job is nothing like I expected. I have a Korean co/"boss" teacher who wants me to take top/down teaching approach to my classes and focus on conversation. My first reaction was fine I can do this, but now I feel like I'm chasing my tail in this job. I done what I thought she wanted but apparently i shouldn't do exactly what she wants? I have no problem creating lessons myself but because I have to defer to the co/boss teacher for the lessons I feel quite redundant.
I learn't to teach a certain way on my CELTA but this isn't what she wants. She brought a textbook which I have to use for lesson plans. I hate the book because it's rubbish and she briefs me on "my" lessons the way she wants it done.
I thought I'd just do what she asked and it would be ok but she struggles to articulate what she wants and I find it hard to visualise what she briefs because she can't express herself well in English I told her this and she acknowledges the communication problems. Depite my best efforts at diplomacy she has said I am direct and abrupt. (In a nice way of course..)

Does anyone know anything about top/down teaching? or have any links? Apparently I have to talk about my culture compared to K culture then get across the main idea of the lesson as opposed to eliciting it from the kids (in my case a part of conversation.) It also seems to not involve any fun stuff so the kids will love it.

It's fustrating - I know its Korea. I spent months learning how to teach the CELTA way only to find I need to take another approach now. I spend all week preparing lessons to have her turn around and say they are doing it their way regardless what I show them..it's bollocks because I'm taking them proven lesson plans I used in my CELTA/training for the job.
Additionally I have a Korean/Canadian part-time teacher working with me who can't understand the boss teacher's briefings eitheir.
I'm worried they/she is looking for excuses and planning to get rid of me. I think she'd prefer a Korean speaking teacher over me- maybe the part-timer as she is shit hot but she's the back seat driver at the moment.
It's all very nice at the moment but I'm worried the shit is going to hit the fan if this goes on and on. There's only so much I can take. I just don't get where she is coming from?

Please: only answers about advice after the day I've had the last thing I want to discuss is grammar or spelling..


Lesson: CELTA dies as soon as you hit the tarmac at Incheon. Accept.
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agoodmouse



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Location: Anyang

PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My CELTA really helped my high school teaching here. So I disagree.
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The Grumpy Senator



Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Location: Up and down the 6 line

PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Top-Down Processing involves the students' ability to bring prior knowledge into help understanding new material. The student uses prior knowledge to make predictions and how the pieces fit into the whole.

Basiclally, it aims at getting the student to expand their thoughts; and therefore, expand their responses to the material. Is more internal-based for the student- giving them a little information and letting them come up with their own answers and not the tradtional closed-question type lesson.

Top-Down is a great strategy if you are able to encourage your students to think for themselves and express themselves. Allow grammar mistakes (just model the corrections after the student finishes) and ensure they know that every answer is a good answer. Make the class an environment where they are comfortable sharing ideas and opinions.

If the book your co-teacher prevoided (Provided. Wow, what the hell is prevoided?) is not to your liking, find one better suited and present it to her. Discuss why you like or dislike a book and agree to present the material as a team. That is the only way it will work.

Hope this helps. Good luck.


Last edited by The Grumpy Senator on Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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agoodmouse



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Location: Anyang

PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slideaway77, where did you take your CELTA? Which test center?
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ChinaBoy



Joined: 17 Feb 2007

PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Grumpy Senator wrote:
Top-Down Processing involves the students' ability to bring prior knowledge into help understanding new material. The student uses prior knowledge to make predictions and how the pieces fit into the whole.



If this truly is the meaning of "Top Down", then it's completely named wrong. Wouldn't that be "bottom up"? No one starts at the top.
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The Grumpy Senator



Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Location: Up and down the 6 line

PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChinaBoy wrote:
The Grumpy Senator wrote:
Top-Down Processing involves the students' ability to bring prior knowledge into help understanding new material. The student uses prior knowledge to make predictions and how the pieces fit into the whole.



If this truly is the meaning of "Top Down", then it's completely named wrong. Wouldn't that be "bottom up"? No one starts at the top.


Bottom-Up Process is the student must listen and play close attention to every detail of the language presented. They must then process the sounds they hear into words, grammatical relationships; and eventually, sentences and paragraphs.

I do not name them, I just learn them.
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D.D.



Joined: 29 May 2008

PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Part of working in a public school is to muscle your way in. If you are not strong they wiil try and push you into teaching their way. I always take a my way or the highway tactic and they back off and I teach my style.

Just for myself I couldn't do this job if I had to adhere to their insane teaching methods.

So I would just do what I wanted to do and ignore their control dramas.
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icnelly



Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Location: Bucheon

PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

D.D. wrote:
Part of working in a public school is to muscle your way in. If you are not strong they wiil try and push you into teaching their way. I always take a my way or the highway tactic and they back off and I teach my style.

Just for myself I couldn't do this job if I had to adhere to their insane teaching methods.
So I would just do what I wanted to do and ignore their control dramas.


The Grumpy Senator is close with his information processing descriptions.

I can't tell if Chinaboy is joking or is truly ignorant.

D.D, if you have a co-teacher who understands information processing and how TRULY important a variable it is to consider in educational contexts, then I'd think you truly blessed. There is absolutely nothing insane about information processing, and to state so reveals a professional negligence that defies the typical coupling of laziness and ethnocentrism.

If your CT is telling you to pursue top down or bottom up, look into it. You could actually learn something about teaching and the cognitive variables that most certainly affect how your students respond and interact with you/the content.

If you need really help PM me.
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Dodgy Al



Joined: 15 May 2004
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Politely tell her that you are confused about what she wants, and request that you observe one of her classes, to see an example.
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