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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
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 Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:37 am Post subject: |
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| harri2002 wrote: |
japan started the whole thing: brutal colonization of korea, mass murder
of the chinese (nanking massacre), attacked peal harbor and maimed and
tortured innocent civilians of asia. if you think about all the people who
perished because of japanese atrocities, you couldn't so easily excuse
them from all the pain they caused. over the years, i learned that
koreans aren't the only ones who hate japan so much because of what
they did before. chinese and philippinas hate them too. i saw on this
documentary about the philippines during WWII, and this one guy said he
will never forgive the japanese for brutally killing his brother with a
machete. also, this one japanese doctor confessed that when he was in
the japanese army during WWII he raped and killed by DISEMBOWELING
chinese girls and women from the ages of 8 to 80. yes, that is ages 8 to
80 years. now, that is evil. to quote george bush, "if this isn't evil, evil
has no meaning". i once worked for a jewish-american lady and she
hates japanese till this day because she was in pearl harbor when the
japanese attacked and she barely survived when her relatives died.
you'd think she would hate hitler more but if you saw her tell me how the
japanese are "evil", you'd see how much she loathes them. yes, people
die in wars but japan deliberately initiated pain and suffering on other
countries first. yes, many many japanese people died from the atomic
bomb, but since they started the whole thing they kind of deserved it. if
the bomb weren't dropped many many more people from other asian
countries other than japan would have been brutally tortured and killed.
japan deserved the bomb after all the suffering they initiated in the lives
of innocent civilians in korean, china, phillippines, burma, indonesia,
hawaii, etc. we think the osama bin laden and his terrorist groups are
evil because he killed some 3000 civilians. it's the same logic, japan
massacred some 5,000,000 civilians and yet still doesn't face up to it. i
just want to laugh when they try to play the victim. it's only natural to be
offended when japanese talk about how people died because of the atom
bomb, they fold stupid origami to commemorate bomb victims, they
advertise how this girl sadako, so innocent, died because of americans
dropping the bomb, etc. they have no remorse for what they did to all
those koreans, chinese, etc which is why it's so natural for them to try to
cover it up by playing the victim of the atom bomb. japan deserved the
bomb after what they did to all those innocent civilians... |
A rant which doesn't add anything to this discussion. Do you have any sources for the statistics you presented? Your last sentence was pathetic. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2004 6:43 am Post subject: |
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| and i encourage anyone, korean or not, to reflect on and get angry about the japanese occupation. but its another thing entirely to attempt to reflect with koreans and to blame this supposed common enemy of brutal slanty eyed kamikaze fighters as if they didnt learn a thing or two from our brutality. and as if anglo-american nations always act with altrustic intentions, or even ever for that matter. |
Hey, I don't like the way people "blame" Jeffrey Dahmer for all those murders!! Sure, he killed a lot of people, but so did Charles Manson. I bet Dahmer even learned a thing or two from Manson! I wish people would quit saying that they hate Jeffrey Dahmer as if Charles Manson was some sort of an angel! |
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little mixed girl
Joined: 11 Jun 2003
Location: shin hyesung's bed~
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2004 7:27 am Post subject: |
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.....
Last edited by little mixed girl on Sun Aug 31, 2008 12:58 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Guri Guy
Joined: 07 Sep 2003
Location: Bamboo Island
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2004 10:28 am Post subject: |
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What a depressing thread.  Being a student of History I know that we should always be careful of revisionist history. What the Japanese did was certainly brutal but in a lot of ways the first half of the 20th Century was full of simular acts committed by a large number of Nations. The age of Nationalism which started over 150 years earlier was not a nice time to be either a civilian or a soldier.
However another thing that sickens me is the Japanese Cheerleading Club (led by the most illustrious Gord) Why is it throughout history, the most passionate defenders of a people or race seem to be people that aren't of that particular people or race? Gord seems to want to be Japanese himself and is willing to excuse their horrific excesses by saying "Everyone else did it so it can't be wrong!" That is rather regressive thinking that leads you down a very dangerous road indeed. Wrong is wrong period.
Oddly enough, imminiate danger is a valid defence...Japan attacked America after America took steps to stop their fuel supplies...Yes I suppose America should have let them continue to rape and plunder China. This is complete and utter garbage. Obviously Gord believes in the theory of the "Preemptive counterattack". Take the blinders off and gain some objectivity Gord.  |
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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:09 am Post subject: |
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| Guri Guy wrote: |
What a depressing thread. Being a student of History I know that we should always be careful of revisionist history. What the Japanese did was certainly brutal but in a lot of ways the first half of the 20th Century was full of simular acts committed by a large number of Nations. The age of Nationalism which started over 150 years earlier was not a nice time to be either a civilian or a soldier.
However another thing that sickens me is the Japanese Cheerleading Club (led by the most illustrious Gord) Why is it throughout history, the most passionate defenders of a people or race seem to be people that aren't of that particular people or race? Gord seems to want to be Japanese himself and is willing to excuse their horrific excesses by saying "Everyone else did it so it can't be wrong!" That is rather regressive thinking that leads you down a very dangerous road indeed. Wrong is wrong period.
Oddly enough, imminiate danger is a valid defence...Japan attacked America after America took steps to stop their fuel supplies...Yes I suppose America should have let them continue to rape and plunder China. This is complete and utter garbage. Obviously Gord believes in the theory of the "Preemptive counterattack". Take the blinders off and gain some objectivity Gord. |
The "defences" of Japan that you point to constitute nothing more than an attack on the OP. He posts some pictures that don't hold any weight, and then launches into an anti-Japan rant. Do you expect people to let such sloppy posts go unquestioned? Do you believe that those photos constitute proof of Japanese brutality? Are they dated? Are they sourced? Can we discriminate the nationality of the people involved? Can we deduce what exactly took place? If you were a decent student of history then you would be equally enquisitive. I must add that a good student of history would never use words like "rape" or "plunder" without sources. |
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tokki
Joined: 26 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 4:06 am Post subject: |
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What gets my goat is the obvious denial of history under the guise of some "quest for truth". Japan doesnt deserve it. Their reputation as heartless butchers is set, and should be left as such.
They are super evil |
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shakuhachi
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Location: Sydney
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 5:32 am Post subject: |
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| What a depressing thread. Being a student of History I know that we should always be careful of revisionist history. |
History is in constant revision all the time. New knowledge and unearthed artifacts constantly challenge our preconcieved beliefs.
If you claim to be a student of history then you should always be willing to look at the facts. If you think that someone is wrongly revising history then you should prove him wrong in a counter argument. If you are correct and the facts support you then everyone will see how wrong he is. You would even be doing him a favor by relieving him of his false beliefs.
Unfortunately I have seen nothing in your post to suggest that you have an open mind about Japan. As a student of history you surely know that losers of wars are generally branded as the "bad guys". Imagine if we had lost the war.
The history between Japan and Korea is not all black and white. The Koreans bear the bulk of the responsibility for the Japanese having to occupy Korea (with the consent of the Korean king). To allow Korea to be occupied by a power hostile to Japan would have been national suicide. Korea was known all over the world as a failed state and even the Koreans knew it. Most of the political discourse in Korea at the time was whether they would become a protectorate of Russia or of Japan. And the Pro-Japanese faction won out. Most Koreans dont even know that aspect of Korean history. |
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matko
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: in a world of hurt!
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 5:35 am Post subject: |
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| tokki wrote: |
What gets my goat is the obvious denial of history under the guise of some "quest for truth". Japan doesnt deserve it. Their reputation as heartless butchers is set, and should be left as such.
They are super evil |
Your reputation as a troll grows stronger and stronger by the minute. |
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Godzilla
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 6:30 am Post subject: |
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| Tokki.. the people of this country we're having carnal knowledge of pigs and other farmyard animals before the Japs came here and civilised them. Maybe after a few more years here the Japanese would have bred the inherent rudeness out of these people. BANZAI BANZAI BANZAI |
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ohahakehte
Joined: 24 Aug 2003
Location: The State of Denial
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 7:58 am Post subject: |
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| Guri Guy wrote: |
| However another thing that sickens me is the Japanese Cheerleading Club (led by the most illustrious Gord) Why is it throughout history, the most passionate defenders of a people or race seem to be people that aren't of that particular people or race? Gord seems to want to be Japanese himself and is willing to excuse their horrific excesses by saying "Everyone else did it so it can't be wrong!" |
!! im surprised no one else noticed this.
people tend to defend other people who are in danger because they don't want other people to get hurt. thats an extremely simple way of explaining it that a 5 year old would understand in about 3 seconds.
do you realize that if you said the same thing in the middle of a discussion on anti-nazi gentiles of the 1930's, you would be labelled "anti-semite" within moments (and perhaps rightly so)?
btw, explanation is not justification. just because someone tries to put atrocious actions in a context doesn't mean they are in favour of such actions. |
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Guri Guy
Joined: 07 Sep 2003
Location: Bamboo Island
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 9:19 am Post subject: |
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| I am not Anti-Japanese. I admire the Japanese culture and would like to teach English there either next year or the year after. If you would like, I can spend tomorrow evening checking online about Japan's brutalities in the first half of the 20th Century . It's not a pretty sight. I certainly have an open mind and don't mind being proven wrong. I just don't see how saying "Other countries were just as bad" excuses Japan's behaviour. Wrong is wrong. Biological experiments, massacres of civilians, horrendous treatment of Pows, use of "comfort women" (have they really apologized yet?) are all repugnant to any decent human being. However to say that Japan deserved to be Nuked is ridiculous as well. Anyway it is late, I will post more tomorrow... |
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buddy bradley
Joined: 24 Aug 2003
Location: The Beyond
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 9:24 am Post subject: |
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Ingrates. We're in the here and now; calling Japan evil is akin to calling Germany evil. It's over, it's not now.
Done and done. |
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Godzilla
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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Buddy Boy... couldn't have said it better myself. 9.1 billion dollars being spent on overseas development aid every year. That's from the second largest economy in the world. The States, I hear you ask? 6.9 billion dollars.
Koreans... get over it. All this, "I hate Japan" business is just posturing. It's as ridiculous as me as a Brit going, "Those Romans.. they may have built the viaducts and roads, but scum nonetheless". "The Vikings.. raping and pillaging our fair land." "The Normans? Well they can stick their Magna Carta, legal system and doomsday book right up their..."
Or perhaps, "The Germans. Bringing the Empire down, killing thousands of people in air raids over Coventry, Birmingham, Liverpool, Glasgow and, of course, London, while becoming one of the richest countries on the planet"
Do I hate the Germans? Not at all. Love beating them at football and ridiculing their lack of humour though. |
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ohahakehte
Joined: 24 Aug 2003
Location: The State of Denial
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Guri Guy wrote: |
| I just don't see how saying "Other countries were just as bad" excuses Japan's behaviour. Wrong is wrong. Biological experiments, massacres of civilians, horrendous treatment of Pows, use of "comfort women" (have they really apologized yet?) are all repugnant to any decent human being. However to say that Japan deserved to be Nuked is ridiculous as well. |
im not trying to excuse japan's behaviour. i never have and never will. japan acted abominably. but its blindness, hypocrisy and ugly jingoism to suggest that japan was exclusively evil and therefore deserved its punishment. its even worse to posit WW2 as a battle b/w the pure and good anglo-american nations vs the evil germans, japanese and italians. japanese behaviour in its rape and abuse of east asia was not as severe as america's destruction of most indian nations, nor even close in the amount of illegally acquired land. like many situations today, alleged american and british concern over the human rights record of japan was incidental. what really bothered the anglo-americans was the japanese intent to control east asia as its own economic domain in the same way that america controlled and controls the western hemisphere. the US wanted east asia and the pacific for itself and it wouldnt tolerate japan taking "its" domain. if japan's aggression against east asia was such an ethical problem for the US, i guess thats why japan attacked them instead of the other way around... though im not even making mention here of the economic strictures and sanctions that the US and britain imposed on japan in the years leading up to WW2. aggressive and destructive actions against nations dont always have to take the form of military attack, as we saw in iraq under the society-destroying sanctions of the UN and others.
a great essay on the circumstances of japan discussed here is "The Revolutionary Pacifism of A.J. Muste" in Noam Chomsky's American Power and the New Mandarins |
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Guri Guy
Joined: 07 Sep 2003
Location: Bamboo Island
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Thank you. This is the kind of mature, dignified, well thought out response that I like. I agree with you 100%. The United States has blood on it's hands just as much as anyone else. I took a course in Latin American History when I was in university and it really opened my eyes. The horrendous things they did in Guatamela, Cuba, Panama are inexcusable. The United States certainly acts in it's own self interest a lot of the time. However I am not arguing about who was reponsible for starting the conflict. I am merely saying that Japanese atrocities should not be downplayed. As well as this, yes, I think other Nations should also be judged accordingly. |
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