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b-class rambler
Joined: 25 Mar 2009
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 Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Joe666 wrote: |
| In defence of the Koreans, which for me is rare these days, I believe they feel it is 2 different types of English, because of the accents. Also, when I hear some british accents, I really have to listen carefully to fully understand what they are saying. When English is your second language, it's understandable to think the 2 types are quite different. The slang words are quite different between American English and British English. |
I can see where you're coming from here, but I still don't think accent is a valid excuse. If accent were the issue then they should be saying that British, American, Australian and all the others are all different languages.
In any language, there will be different accents within the group of people who speak it. But this doesn't mean they're speaking a different language, even when the sheer number and physical distances apart are as great as they are with English. Likewise, it's not really anything out of the ordinary for people to have more difficulty understanding bits of their own language when spoken by people with accents they're not familiar with. But that still doesn't make it a different language.
I sometimes get Koreans asking me if British people and Americans have trouble communicating "because you speak different languages". I tell them that I'm British but have had lots of American friends & colleagues through the years and it's never once been a problem. I also try pointing out that when American & British leaders meet, they don't have interpreters. But sometimes they still won't believe it. Now that is just stupidity, no other word for it.
The real issue is in many cases, is that their English listening ability isn't very good but they don't want to admit that. Much easier to blame it on the speaker unfairly using some supposedly different language they haven't learnt. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:43 am Post subject: |
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| Woden wrote: |
| Joe666 wrote: |
Captain Corea
"milk going off"
"grumble in the derby"
Yeah, I'm so sure we speak the same language.. nor drink the same milk. Most of the milk I purchase here in Korea smells 'off' from the start.
I have to agree with Captain - Where does your milk go off to?
Grumble in the Derby must be a rumbling in thy stomach?
Nice cuppa Rosy - a cup of tea?
Captain, I need your help here!! Are these British fag terms? |
If going 'off' is 'wrong', then so is 'spoil'. What does it spoil? A perfectly good opportunity for an afternoon kickabout?
Derby = Derby Kelly = Belly
Rosy = Rosy Lee = Tea
Are these fag terms? No, but it is perfectly acceptable to use Salmon to refer to a fag:
Salmon = Salmon Trout = Snout = Fag = Cigarette
As for the Ebeneezer who said we all sound like Hugh Grant!! You're having a bubble mush!! Where I live we're deluged with Northern Monkeys and Sweaty Socks
Northern Monkey = One from north of the M25 or Watford
Sweaty Sock = Jock = Scottish Lad |
Originally, I was just messing about. But now I seriously don't understand you. |
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Joe666
Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Location: Jesus it's hot down here!
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| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:34 am Post subject: |
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Captain - Woden misunderstood the American meaning of "Fag", and that brings me back to the discussion about Koreans thinking British and American English are different forms of the language or 2 different languages.
b-class rambler - I think you may be taking the koreans saying they "speak two different languages" too literally. They don't fully understand how to use English words correctly.
Example: I can be very sarcastic some times and one of my co-teachers is starting to catch on to it. Which I believe is much needed in this country. Anyway, she actually cracked a pretty good English joke the other day (to my amazement) and I said "good one, your catching on" and she said "all I want to do is give you pleasure every day". I did not correct her on this because I probably would have dug a hole for myself via explanation. You get the picture. They put the wrong words together or use the wrong words by accident! They just are not saavy to the west and the English language.
They do not know a thing about multiculturism or western culture unless they lived in it for an extended period of time. When you meet a Korean who has, it is just plain obvious!! Atleast to me!! It is so nice to talk to those Koreans. A breath of fresh air!! |
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Woden
Joined: 08 Mar 2007
Location: Eurasia
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| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:56 am Post subject: |
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| Joe666 wrote: |
Captain - Woden misunderstood the American meaning of "Fag", and that brings me back to the discussion about Koreans thinking British and American English are different forms of the language or 2 different languages.
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'Misunderstood'?
Taxi for Joe666. |
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b-class rambler
Joined: 25 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:10 am Post subject: |
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| Joe666 wrote: |
b-class rambler - I think you may be taking the koreans saying they "speak two different languages" too literally.
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Joe666, again, I understand the reason for what you're saying - that could be a possible explanation, and I'm sure there are Koreans whose knowledge of English is advanced enough that when they half-jokingly refer to 2 different languages, they know full well how ridiculously exaggerated that is.
However, in the cases I've personally experienced, it was perfectly clear that this wasn't the explanation. I've had so many conversations with people like the following -
them - How come you speak American English? Did you go to school in America?
me - I don't speak American English and I've never been to the US.
them - no, you sound American, I understand you really well.
I have a fairly neutral accent, with a slight English west midlands tint to it. I've very occasionally been mistaken by Australians for a fellow Aussie, but never ever been thought of by any native English speaker as North American. Several North American friends I've discussed this with have remarked that they would never in a million years mistake me for a North American when speaking. So the reason for the above example is that these people are so convinced that B.E. is "a different language" which they can't imagine an English speaker they understand could be speaking.
To be fair to Koreans who think like this (and I should stress that plenty don't), although I call this stupidity, it's not entirely their fault. If your Korean is good enough, in Kyobo or somewhere look through some travel books or other stuff about the UK and you'll see they make a big, big deal of how utterly different the language is from anything they will have learned in their school English classes. I've sometimes seen lists of words supposedly different in the US and UK, many of which were completely wrong.
Anyway, sorry, gone way off topic here.......or should that be gone way bad topic   |
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Joe666
Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Location: Jesus it's hot down here!
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| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:27 am Post subject: |
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b-class rambler - I just do not understand how that can be!! I was told and have heard many times that schools would rather hire an American for the qoute - Different English languages.
My belief is that the American media is much more prevelant in the Hermit Kingdom than British or other western media. Korean society is much more exposed to that Quote - English language.
They can't be that naive. Can they? |
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Pojogae
Joined: 30 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:11 am Post subject: |
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Korean's like to believe that Brit and Yank English are different because it is just another tool for them to shift the responsibility onto their teachers of their failure to pick up a language after 15 years of study. Don't encourage them.
I tell them that they are not even seperate dialects, and that the differences, unless you're talking to a Scot or a Geordie, amount to nothing more than an accent, a few spelling peculiarities, and a bunch of nouns one side favours over the other and could probably be learnt in an afternoon. Furthermore, if any North Americans have trouble understanding British English phrases it can only really be down to the complainee's failure to expose himself to outside media and cultural products, and is thus a consequence of ignorance rather than language gulfs. I mean I've certainly not met any Brits, Aussies, or Kiwis who have difficulty understanding North Americans speak.
The funny thing is that even if Koreans insist on studying with American teachers, they are only going to end up speaking with a mangled Korean accent anyway. |
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Woden
Joined: 08 Mar 2007
Location: Eurasia
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| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 5:21 am Post subject: |
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| Pojogae wrote: |
Korean's like to believe that Brit and Yank English are different because it is just another tool for them to shift the responsibility onto their teachers of their failure to pick up a language after 15 years of study. Don't encourage them.
I tell them that they are not even seperate dialects, and that the differences, unless you're talking to a Scot or a Geordie, amount to nothing more than an accent, a few spelling peculiarities, and a bunch of nouns one side favours over the other and could probably be learnt in an afternoon. Furthermore, if any North Americans have trouble understanding British English phrases it can only really be down to the complainee's failure to expose himself to outside media and cultural products, and is thus a consequence of ignorance rather than language gulfs. I mean I've certainly not met any Brits, Aussies, or Kiwis who have difficulty understanding North Americans speak.
The funny thing is that even if Koreans insist on studying with American teachers, they are only going to end up speaking with a mangled Korean accent anyway. |
I think there is more difference than you give credit for. How you claim they are not seperate dialects is just plain wrong. I don't think we even need to go into a discussion about what constitutes a language or dialect to settle that one.
An example is when British films or programmes get released in America and the audience need subtitles. Happens quite often for even quite neutral accents according to BBC World, as I heard on BBC radio this week. There are differences in vocab, accent, tone, pitch, etc.
But I do agree that Koreans exaggerate the differences. I think it is done to such an extent that they expect not to understand, and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy! It is also used as an excuse. Teachers blame the accent when in fact they just can't understand English. This bear in mind is when I am speaking in a standard accent, to help them anyway. |
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OneWayTraffic
Joined: 14 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 5:37 am Post subject: |
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| moosehead wrote: |
it has to do with the bacteria - which is what causes spoilage - when milk curdles, it's because of the reproduction of bacteria - the smell is the gas the bacteria are emitting as they die and their little cells explode - cool huh?
at any rate, due to the lack of HUGE industrial dairies here like in the west, there is a lower rate of contamination combined w/hi tech filtration, uv treatment, a dose here and there of whatever is glowing in the dark (just kidding) and the milk maintains its freshness for maybe a bit longer.
however, don't let the long-sitting cartons in the classroom fool you - milk will spoil and it doesn't have to curdle to be bad - it can give you a bad tummy upset and if it's been 8 hours unrefrigerated, well, the runs can come on as well.
to recap - less bacteria than what we have in the West, so less of a difference in curdling, but all the same, bacteria ARE there, they just react differently so the milk does spoil, you just see a different reaction.
if it's more than 1 day past expiration, toss it. don't be a fool. |
Another option is to take milk that's near it's due date and heat it up to about 85 degrees. That will kill pretty much anything that's in it. Then you cool it down to 45 degrees, add in some yogurt and keep it at 45 degrees for about 10 hours. I put mine in a glass jar in a water bath in my biggest pot, which is wrapped in a blanket.
Then enjoy the natural yogurt. It's better than most bought stuff, and will keep for a week or so. I've never had it go off as I eat it too fast. |
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superacidjax
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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What IS the deal with the Koreans keeping milk at room temperature? And eggs too..
I must be an ignorant foreigner, because I don't get it. |
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