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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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 Posted: Sat May 02, 2009 2:16 pm Post subject: China's quarantine of Mexican Citizens ends |
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Flu News from China's Detention
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This is developing news here in Beijing about treatment of those who hold Mexican passports. It is based on first-hand reports from people I trust:
- As international flights arrive in Beijing, from any destination, passengers are being asked to show their passports before the plane comes to the terminal. Those with Mexican passports are not allowed to enter the city. They have been taken to a hotel for quarantine and are still there. Some 40 to 50 people are now being detained in this way. To be clear, this is not being applied to people who've recently been to Mexico, or who are showing signs of disease, or who have been exposed in some other way. It has been purely a matter of whether they are Mexican citizens.
- A Mexican official in Guangzhou booked a round trip flight to Cambodia. On arriving back from Cambodia (ie, a million miles away from Mexico), he too has been detained, on the basis of his passport. |
I bet China would never have the cajones to pull this crap on US citizens.
Oh, Jackie Chan, where are you during this crisis?
Last edited by Kuros on Tue May 05, 2009 2:40 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 2:59 am Post subject: |
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| I think China's caution makes sense, they just completely botched the implementation. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 7:30 am Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| I think China's caution makes sense, they just completely botched the implementation. |
I don't. 19 deaths from swine flu so far, whereas all other strains cull 13,000 Americans every year.
Its complete fear and irrationality. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 9:02 am Post subject: |
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With 48 views, I'll assume people are following this but not posting, which is cool.
Fallows has two more posts for us:
A Chinese responds
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You've argued the better way Chinese authority may follow to improve their PR campaign to the outside world. But I think the communication has never been a one way traffic. There are also much work to do for the Western medias.
The attitude of arrogance and superiority aside, here are some interesting and apparent steps for the Western media to take to smooth the hostility between them and China.
1. Accept China's uniqueness (if not exceptionalism)
2. Recognize the legitimacy of the communist regime (at least partially in terms of the progresses they have made)
3. Tolerate the minor human rights problems and individual sufferings which are common in any developing country (not to mention China's hugeness and complexity)
4. Commend and encourage steps China made toward openness, cooperation and transparency (with less grudge and suspicion)
These may sound imposable or impractical for some in the West, but consider this: Are these applicable to India? I think these are exactly how the Western media treats India. They see India as a unique place with some nostalgia; they see Indian government as one of their own; they see India's human rights problem with great tolerance and understanding; they seem never hesitate to acclaim India as one of biggest power in the world in spite of its economy is far lagging behind that of China.
I don't want to complain about the mistreatment China has been receiving. My point is China is not the biggest threat, the mistrust and misunderstanding are. If you deep-down don't see the other side as equal, you'll never get the respect you hoped. |
WSJ on the Mexican detentions
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Mr. Carrillo said health officials took the temperatures of other passengers after the plane landed, but didn't check his after they saw his Mexican passport. Instead, they led him down the aisle past gawking passengers. "It was embarrassing and humiliating," he said.
Mexicans who were on the flight to Shanghai with the 25-year-old flu victim complain about how China has enforced its quarantine, offering little information and only basic medical testing. Among them is a family of five, including three young children, who transited to Beijing. They were roused from their hotel room in the Chinese capital in the early hours of Saturday and whisked to an infectious diseases hospital. There, according to the father, Carlos Doormann, AeroM�xico's finance director, they were isolated in a room with bloodstained sheets and what appeared to be mucus smeared on the walls.
"I'm frustrated and sad," said Mr. Doormann, whose family has since been moved to the nearby Guo Men Hotel on the outskirts of the Chinese capital, where they are in quarantine along with five other Mexican nationals, including Mr. Carrillo.
According to accounts from Mexicans in the hotel, Mexican travelers arriving on various flights from Mexico and the U.S. were singled out by health officials who boarded the aircraft wearing white protective suits, masks and rubber gloves. They led away Mexican passport holders. Several travelers said Chinese television camera crews surprised them at the doors of their aircraft as they emerged. They said the filming continued through the windows of an isolation ward at the Beijing Ditan infectious diseases hospital.
"We felt like we were in a zoo," said Angel Yamil Silum, a 27-year-old business student, who arrived in Beijing with his girlfriend Saturday en route to Bangkok for a holiday, and ended up at Ditan and then the Guo Men Hotel. |
To respond to my invisible Chinese interlocutor, I would say I can see the wounds of his national pride quite clearly in his remonstration of the double standard we give India but not China. And its certainly true that many if not most Americans (can't speak for other nationalities) don't understand China. How could they?
But I think everyone does recognize the progress the CCP has made in the 80s and 90s; but outside of its admission into the WTO, what has the CCP done for human rights lately?
That's an open question. I haven't see any further movement for democracy. In fact, I felt the Olympics was a regression in that regard (although a pretty remarkable event). I've been told by very educated and enlightened Chinese that most of China is not ready for democracy. And that is perhaps true, as most of the countryside still experiences 2% annual growth and has one foot in feudal times. But if that is the case, I believe the CCP needs to do more to encourage economic progress in the rural areas, the kind of economic progress necessary to sustain a healthy educational system. Its true, the entirety of China probably could not handle democracy. However, its a Catch 22, if China doesn't enact some democratic reforms, they'll never prepare their people for democracy, either.
Lastly, I don't think detaining Mexican citizens is a minor human rights incident. Its a national embarrassment that is worrying to everyone who has anything at all invested in the future of China. And you don't have to understand China to see that. |
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Robot_Teacher
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Location: Robotting Around the World
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| Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 9:16 am Post subject: |
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This swine flu thing is another manufactured fear factor just as the war on terrorism was immediately after 9/11 happened that led to the unjust invasion of Iraq. It's American manufactured fear that the Chinese got all racist about in their interpretation of the nonsense. We don't yet know why this fear was invented, but there's a reason.
Exactly, the regular flu takes thousands of more lives each year more than this swine flu has taken. If this were a serious pandemic, it'd be happening by now, but fact is, little to nothing is happening. How come nothing is being said anymore about AIDS, yet no cure has been found?
What become of the old bird flu?
Last edited by Robot_Teacher on Mon May 04, 2009 9:20 am; edited 1 time in total |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 9:20 am Post subject: |
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The 4 points:
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| 1. Accept China's uniqueness (if not exceptionalism) |
China is a unique society. The notion of exceptionalism is hubris.
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| 2. Recognize the legitimacy of the communist regime (at least partially in terms of the progresses they have made) |
Yes. No problem.
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| 3. Tolerate the minor human rights problems and individual sufferings which are common in any developing country (not to mention China's hugeness and complexity) |
If by tolerate he means not be critical, then that is unacceptable. But we must be conscious of our own failing before we start talking about theirs (I'm thinking of Tibet and our colonial reality and "political prisoners" in China and drug prisoners at home). If we're going to be critical of others, we must be sure that we are as - or more - critical of ourselves.
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| 4. Commend and encourage steps China made toward openness, cooperation and transparency (with less grudge and suspicion) |
Sure. I don't even know what this means anyways. China will open on her own terms. Westerners will play no part.
I agree with him/her that we have a double standard re: India. The western eye sees India with very rose tinted glasses. It was only a few years ago that hindu's were pouring gas down the throats of muslim women and setting them on fire. The last batch of religious fighting saw 2k muslims die. India is a mess.
Detaing Mexians is a pretty small thing. It is an overreaction, but China is a land ripe for viral epidemics. I'm sure they'll fit the situation pronto. |
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Panda
Joined: 25 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 9:21 am Post subject: |
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Guess it was in revenge for some big-mouthed Mexican offical who asserted that H1N1 was from China.  |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| Panda wrote: |
| Guess it was in revenge for some big-mouthed Mexican offical who asserted that H1N1 was from China. |
Unfortunately, I don't think we can rule that out as a contributing factor. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 5:46 am Post subject: |
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Plane lands in China to pick up quarantined Mexicans
SHANGHAI (Reuters) - An AeroMexico plane arrived in Shanghai on Tuesday to repatriate dozens of Mexicans who have become pawns in a drama about how far governments should go to stifle fears that the H1N1 virus could cross their borders.
None of the 43 Mexicans that Beijing quarantined had shown symptoms of the H1N1 flu virus, prompting Mexico to accuse China of being "discriminatory." |
http://uk.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUKTRE5441OH20090505
The Mexicans are talking to the Chinese like they're guilt ridden white Americans. The Chinese, in my experience, don't give a rats ass about being discriminatory. In fact, the (Han) Chinese tend to see the world in terms of ethnic or national hierarchy, and the Mexicans don't register to high on it.
Anyways, the Mexicans are now home. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
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Plane lands in China to pick up quarantined Mexicans
SHANGHAI (Reuters) - An AeroMexico plane arrived in Shanghai on Tuesday to repatriate dozens of Mexicans who have become pawns in a drama about how far governments should go to stifle fears that the H1N1 virus could cross their borders.
None of the 43 Mexicans that Beijing quarantined had shown symptoms of the H1N1 flu virus, prompting Mexico to accuse China of being "discriminatory." |
http://uk.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUKTRE5441OH20090505
The Mexicans are talking to the Chinese like they're guilt ridden white Americans. |
The Mexicans are talking to the Chinese using human rights language from int'l law. The Chinese can easily ignore this by rebutting with sovereignty language from int'l law.
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The Chinese, in my experience, don't give a rats ass about being discriminatory. In fact, the (Han) Chinese tend to see the world in terms of ethnic or national hierarchy, and the Mexicans don't register to high on it.
Anyways, the Mexicans are now home. |
China knows what happens; bad press means drop in FDI. That's why its always worthwhile to publicize such poor behavior. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't know if being rude to Mexico will alter FDI. Dunno, maybe. |
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Panda
Joined: 25 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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Two facts updated:
1, The chief executive of HK has already made an appology to the international passengers that was quarantined in the hotel.
2, Besides Mexican, China also quarantined 29 Canadians arrived in China. Its baseless to criticize China's emergency measure was discriminatory to Mexican.
Taking warning of the Pandemic of H1N1 issued by WHO, Chinese government is taking the right precaution in case any possible spreading go out of control, especially when there has been one confirmed case reported in HK.
But I am not surprised no matter what Chinese do, the media will bash unconditionaly, if swine flu started to prevail in China, the whole world would get freaked out and blame the government did nothing to prevent.
If Chinese care all criticism that other countries make, they could only kill themselves. |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 5:00 am Post subject: |
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| Robot_Teacher wrote: |
What become of the old bird flu? |
The poultry farmers were forced to clean up their act, and it tailed off.
It claimed 150+ lives worldwide- although many of these are not actually confirmed as due to HN51. |
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