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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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sigmundsmith
Joined: 22 Nov 2007
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 Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Goku wrote: |
Seriously why do we need to talk about this?
Don't we all know about prositution by now? What's left to talk about? And quite frankly I think someone from anti-english spectrum is eyeing us.
But in a considerable amount of logical light too. Keep in mind, the vast majority of us are teachers, and prositution shouldn't be a topic that's on the mind of teachers, whether it's critizing, discussing, or making social commentary. It should be avoided regardless. |
I originally posted the question: Are there more prostitutes in Korea (pop. ratio) to say countries like Thailand?
Now, I was surprised that it was removed. Someone posted a comment about becareful what you talk about. Which I assume they meant don't make crude comments. And I agree.
It was a legitimate question to ask. Now, the above person stated that don't we all know about prostitution? Well, know we all don't. Unless you know all about prostitution   I think it was Traxxe that said that newbies need to be made aware of what is in this country. It might be contrastly different how they go about their business (barber poles etc).
The other comment you made is that we are all teachers and the topic of prostitution shouldn't be on the minds of teachers.
Well, I disagree with that point. We all make observations about the culture/s we live in; and in our situation from an outsiders point of view. We instinctively make judgements about culture's - both positive and negative - that is intrinsic with human nature. How, do we make those judgements? Observations, readings, discussions, etc. It also gains a better understanding about the culture we live in. We need to know as much about behavior, norms and all the other sociological elements so we feel more comfortable in the environment.
If we don't understand a culture and the people we will always feel like outsiders. |
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Forward Observer
Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Location: FOB Gloria
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| Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Back in the day, we didn't learn about "barber poles" and other seedy aspects of Korean culture through message boards. We got out there and mingled! |
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Goku
Joined: 10 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| PK wrote: |
| Goku is morally superior and never thinks about sex. He must be anti-sex. |
I probably think about it every 5 seconds,
and 4 out of those 5 seconds would still be thinking about it.
Thats all men
But that's something better left in the crevices of my mind than on a board where we are being judged by others including our employers.
Even if it is annoymous, people our judging us as FT's constantly and our image is bad enough. We don't need to be talking about something that's already been beaten to death as topic such as prositution.
WHAT IS LEFT TO TALK ABOUT IT?
It's there, it exists, we aren't high school boys, it isn't like something that mysterious or mystical like watching pron the first time when we were 14 year old boys.
If you'd like to learn more about the wonders of the human anatomy and paying for services of enjoyment of procreation without the actual planting of the seed, theres a video by bungaboo on youtube about it. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Goku wrote: |
[WHAT IS LEFT TO TALK ABOUT IT?
It's there, it exists, we aren't high school boys, it isn't like something that mysterious or mystical like watching pron the first time when we were 14 year old boys.
. |
Some posters apparently haven't got past that stage yet though.
And OP haven't the mods said multiple times, that if you have a problem with a thread being removed, a PM is more appropriate?
Last edited by TheUrbanMyth on Thu May 07, 2009 5:15 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Forward Observer
Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Location: FOB Gloria
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| Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Goku wrote: |
| PK wrote: |
| Goku is morally superior and never thinks about sex. He must be anti-sex. |
WHAT IS LEFT TO TALK ABOUT IT?
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THE GODDANG prices! |
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Robot_Teacher
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Location: Robotting Around the World
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| Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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| I suppose a privately owned website is not a place for freedom of speech like it might appear to be. If the website owner and mods don't like something, they have every right to remove it as it's their turf. If someone points something out a thread to a MOD that is inappropriate such as hateful flaming, trolling, racism, and controversial topics that defame Korea, it gets removed. The websites' interests are in maintaining international relations of keeping the jobs flowing to make money off of setting recruiters and schools up with candidates. This is not simply a forum site, it's a money making jobs site offering real jobs. It's not Monster where most listings are junk with no discussions forum. I'd say this site is being generous to us to list real jobs looking to employ and pay real people and allow them to discuss it. |
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Bramble
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Location: National treasures need homes
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| Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| sigmundsmith wrote: |
| I originally posted the question: Are there more prostitutes in Korea (pop. ratio) to say countries like Thailand? |
How could anyone on Dave's answer your question in a helpful way? Are any reliable statistics available? If so, why don't you find them and post a link to a credible source so people can discuss the subject intelligently?
One thing I hate about Dave's is that people constantly throw around unsupported statements and ignorant generalizations, yet the mods never drop in to actually post a response. The prostitution thread was idiotic. Someone asked a question about the respective prostitute populations of an unspecified group of countries�apparently without having made any attempt to find the information himself�and within minutes, the thread filled up with all sorts of irrelevant posts. No one provided links with actual answers to the OP's question�just opinions about whether prostitution is good or bad and assumptions/generalizations about all Korean men and all Korean women.
On a well-moderated board, a thread like that wouldn't mysteriously disappear�a mod would lock it and post a public explanation:
"X, you're making unsupported assumptions. Unsupported statements and negative generalizations about entire groups of people are offensive and won't be tolerated on this message board.�
(BTW, this approach has the advantage of making it just a little bit harder for bad mods to make deliberate false accusations via PM and then punish their victims for retaliating.) |
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ekul
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Location: [Mod Edit]
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| Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm not sure why it is a taboo subject for teachers to talk about any more than any other segment of society. If you were talking about young under age prostitutes I could see a problem but between consenting adults there should be no differentiation. Do you think students get freaked out every time they see a teacher with their own child thinking omg they had sex at least one time. Obviously not because sex is an extremely normal facet of life and I boggle at it being so swept under the carpet. |
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traxxe
Joined: 21 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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I never made silly claims to freedom of speech. I recognize this site is here for the purpose of making money. Mods can remove whatever they want. I don't have to agree with it. My school doesn't have to spend their won/dollars/whatever here. That's the way it is.
I'm just expressing the silliness of removing a thread about something that takes up to 8% of the average Korean males' paycheck. It's a significant factor in this country. People who are taking jobs about here should know about it. Some people may not come out of morale objections. Some people may come simply because it is available but then be disheartened to find that usually it is not available to them outside of military base areas.
Some people might like to know that discrimination against gays, transgendered, and sexual orientation related preferences is legal in this country. That you may be fired because of it. There are many things people should know about before coming here. This is one of the places where they can find that information.
Removing it when most Koreans participate in it is just silly. Eating dog, another example... most Koreans have had it. It's illegal. Yet that is just to save face internationally meanwhile they chomp down every block or two with enthusiasm on delicious canine. But since that may be negative... guess that should be censored too. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Bramble wrote: |
| sigmundsmith wrote: |
| I originally posted the question: Are there more prostitutes in Korea (pop. ratio) to say countries like Thailand? |
How could anyone on Dave's answer your question in a helpful way? Are any reliable statistics available? If so, why don't you find them and post a link to a credible source so people can discuss the subject intelligently?
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When I was in Kyoto I had a long, friendly debate with a Japanese guy I met at a bar about which Asian country had the highest percentage of sex industry workers. He remained convinced that Japan was the hands-down winner, but I think I still made a pretty strong case for Dae Han Min Guk. We could both agree that the local ones who were scurrying about everywhere were well out of our price range, however. |
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traxxe
Joined: 21 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Bramble wrote: |
| sigmundsmith wrote: |
| I originally posted the question: Are there more prostitutes in Korea (pop. ratio) to say countries like Thailand? |
How could anyone on Dave's answer your question in a helpful way? Are any reliable statistics available? If so, why don't you find them and post a link to a credible source so people can discuss the subject intelligently?
One thing I hate about Dave's is that people constantly throw around unsupported statements and ignorant generalizations, yet the mods never drop in to actually post a response. The prostitution thread was idiotic. Someone asked a question about the respective prostitute populations of an unspecified group of countries�apparently without having made any attempt to find the information himself�and within minutes, the thread filled up with all sorts of irrelevant posts. No one provided links with actual answers to the OP's question�just opinions about whether prostitution is good or bad and assumptions/generalizations about all Korean men and all Korean women.
On a well-moderated board, a thread like that wouldn't mysteriously disappear�a mod would lock it and post a public explanation:
"X, you're making unsupported assumptions. Unsupported statements and negative generalizations about entire groups of people are offensive and won't be tolerated on this message board.�
(BTW, this approach has the advantage of making it just a little bit harder for bad mods to make deliberate false accusations via PM and then punish their victims for retaliating.) |
You want academic discussion on a site not related to such discourse? That's a tall order.
There can be a way by absorbing a myriad of data on prostitution that can give you an idea of which country has the most prostiution. Looking at published reports of the GDP that goes to the sex trade, etc. It's not a stupid question, but you just want it to be backed with all the research so you don't have to hunt it for yourself. No one is forcing you to believe anything anyone posts on here.
In fact making generalizations in the case of prostiution in Korea is academically supportable. There are facts and numbers that discuss how large percentages of the population's money goes towards the sex trade. If at one time 4% of the GDP goes to the sex trade, you can draw some pretty accurate conclusions about the nature of male cultural activities in the country. You qualify these statements by saying words like 'most'.
For the sake discussing the sex trade in Korea:
The Korean Institute of Criminology in 2003 issued a report stating they found that Korea spent 4.1 % of its GDP on the sex trade. The KIC noted that this was more than the Korean spends GDP spent on agriculture. Here is a site that references some things about prostitution in Korea. It also mentions the KIC's findings I referred to as well: http://cityglance.org/asia/korea/prostitution.shtml
I'm not here to do research for you. The guy had a question. You did not have to participate in the thread. |
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Bramble
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Location: National treasures need homes
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| Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| traxxe wrote: |
| Bramble wrote: |
| sigmundsmith wrote: |
| I originally posted the question: Are there more prostitutes in Korea (pop. ratio) to say countries like Thailand? |
How could anyone on Dave's answer your question in a helpful way? Are any reliable statistics available? If so, why don't you find them and post a link to a credible source so people can discuss the subject intelligently?
One thing I hate about Dave's is that people constantly throw around unsupported statements and ignorant generalizations, yet the mods never drop in to actually post a response. The prostitution thread was idiotic. Someone asked a question about the respective prostitute populations of an unspecified group of countries�apparently without having made any attempt to find the information himself�and within minutes, the thread filled up with all sorts of irrelevant posts. No one provided links with actual answers to the OP's question�just opinions about whether prostitution is good or bad and assumptions/generalizations about all Korean men and all Korean women.
On a well-moderated board, a thread like that wouldn't mysteriously disappear�a mod would lock it and post a public explanation:
"X, you're making unsupported assumptions. Unsupported statements and negative generalizations about entire groups of people are offensive and won't be tolerated on this message board.�
(BTW, this approach has the advantage of making it just a little bit harder for bad mods to make deliberate false accusations via PM and then punish their victims for retaliating.) |
You want academic discussion on a site not related to such discourse? That's a tall order.
There can be a way by absorbing a myriad of data on prostitution that can give you an idea of which country has the most prostiution. Looking at published reports of the GDP that goes to the sex trade, etc. It's not a stupid question, but you just want it to be backed with all the research so you don't have to hunt it for yourself. No one is forcing you to believe anything anyone posts on here.
In fact making generalizations in the case of prostiution in Korea is academically supportable. There are facts and numbers that discuss how large percentages of the population's money goes towards the sex trade. If at one time 4% of the GDP goes to the sex trade, you can draw some pretty accurate conclusions about the nature of male cultural activities in the country. You qualify these statements by saying words like 'most'.
For the sake discussing the sex trade in Korea:
The Korean Institute of Criminology in 2003 issued a report stating they found that Korea spent 4.1 % of its GDP on the sex trade. The KIC noted that this was more than the Korean spends GDP spent on agriculture. Here is a site that references some things about prostitution in Korea. It also mentions the KIC's findings I referred to as well: http://cityglance.org/asia/korea/prostitution.shtml
I'm not here to do research for you. The guy had a question. You did not have to participate in the thread. |
I wasn't asking you to do research for me; I was suggesting that the original thread might have had some value if the OP had done a bit of research before posting. Instead it became a free-for-all for every idiot on the Internet with an opinion.
And thank you for the link, but I don't think it supports the kinds of sweeping generalizations people were making in the thread that got deleted. |
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Enrico Palazzo
Mod Team
Joined: 11 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Robot_Teacher wrote: |
| I suppose a privately owned website is not a place for freedom of speech like it might appear to be. If the website owner and mods don't like something, they have every right to remove it as it's their turf. If someone points something out a thread to a MOD that is inappropriate such as hateful flaming, trolling, racism, and controversial topics that defame Korea, it gets removed. The websites' interests are in maintaining international relations of keeping the jobs flowing to make money off of setting recruiters and schools up with candidates. This is not simply a forum site, it's a money making jobs site offering real jobs. It's not Monster where most listings are junk with no discussions forum. I'd say this site is being generous to us to list real jobs looking to employ and pay real people and allow them to discuss it. |
You are correct, that an owner of a business has a right to regulate things, and this is not even public airwaves. This is a private website as you all know. We are not banning the discussion of this topic.
If you want to discuss it within another thread that's another thing, but it just doesn't look good on the site for such a thread with prostitution as a title on an ESL website.
That's our opinion. It doesn't mean we will go after people discussing it. It's quite common to discuss it. It is also more appropriate for the off-topic forum. It doesn't really pertain to the general life of an EFL teacher.
We do try to be flexible. The thread about it was removed because the goal is not to have insults vis-a-vis the moderators. Everyone knows that's not part of the rules, especially when moderators are giving posters the courtesy to explain things, which they don't need to do.
It violates the TOS to take shots at moderators. It's also poor manners when a moderator is giving you the courtesy to explain why things were done, when we don't have to.
Also, we have seen time and time again people get x-rated when posts related to prostitution are on here. I understand, we are all adults, but this is not the bar, it is a private EFL site. We try to be accomodating.
I mean with the prostitution thread, it is true many Korean males partake in it, but it doesn't mean it's considered universally a good thing that all Korean males openly talk about if they're teachers.
Also, discussing the topic in a thread with the title that was used gets some teachers talking about their sexual exploits on Dave's, and, frankly, though we are not prudes as moderators, and many one or two of us might occasionally curse like sailors in private, this is not a private forum or a gentleman's club.
We want posters to respect each other, respect themselves, not engage in racism, racy commentary on an EFL site. |
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okokok
Joined: 27 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Enrico Palazzo wrote: |
| This is a private website as you all know. |
| Enrico Palazzo wrote: |
| this is not a private forum |
Understood!  |
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Enrico Palazzo
Mod Team
Joined: 11 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Thu May 07, 2009 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| okokok wrote: |
| Enrico Palazzo wrote: |
| This is a private website as you all know. |
| Enrico Palazzo wrote: |
| this is not a private forum |
Understood! |
You get an A+, but the snacks are only for the students.
Ciao a tutti...... dovve andare adesso |
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