|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
MollyBloom
Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Location: James Joyce's pants
|
 Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 5:46 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| beercanman wrote: |
| I have heard the word "forte" said many times in my life, and always as "for tay" and always to refer to skill. Had no idea everyone was wrong about it. I wonder if I'll ever once hear it pronounced correctly. Nah, probably not. One of my favorites is "irregardless," or as Homer once said, "unregardless." (hmmm.."irregardless" doesn't even show up on my screen underlined in red like "unregardless" does...could this mean "irregardless" is a real word?) |
I guess that's part of my point. People have been mispronouncing certain words for so long, that it becomes difficult to determine what is proper. February is supposed to be "Feb-ru-ary", but now it has become acceptable to say "Feb-u-ary." I do agree that language is living, changing, and evolving all the time. That's one of the most fascinating things about language. And now, even in dictionaries, the incorrect, yet common, pronunciation becomes the vernacular. Good example= forte.
I used to study Latin and Greek and have recently gotten back into it when I have spare time, so I have become really interested in roots/suffixes/prefixes and whatnot, and how those can be applied to new words and/or new variations and pronunciations of words. Don't even get me started on the Anglo-Saxon I learned once upon a time. When I found out the connection between bagel and ring (from reading Beowulf of all places!), it made me more interested in linguistics and etymology.
However, as I said in my first post, it does ruffle my feathers when I hear people on the radio and on TV use words incorrectly and butcher grammar. I suppose it bothers me because so many people hear them make those mistakes! |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
agoodmouse
Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Location: Anyang
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MollyBloom
Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Location: James Joyce's pants
|
| Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 6:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
Heh indeed. They did the same with forte. They give the option of both pronunciations: "fort" and "for-tay." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Young FRANKenstein
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Location: Castle Frankenstein (that's FRONKensteen)
|
| Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 7:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
Back to the OT:
artic
aks
expresso
heighth
jewlery
nukyular
sherbert
supposably |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ernie
Joined: 05 Aug 2006
Location: asdfghjk
|
| Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 3:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| i always get a kick out of people who pronounce 'wolf' as 'woof' and 'roof' as 'ruff'. and pretty much everything a newfie says, but god bless em, they're fun to party with. and aussies and brits who drop r where it's written and then proceed to add r where it isn't! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
VanIslander
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!
|
| Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 3:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Differences in pronunciation vary regionally. No right or wrong, but it can sure sound 'odd'.
| ernie wrote: |
| i always get a kick out of people who pronounce... 'roof' as 'ruff'... |
Americans do that all the time.
I get a kick out of barbeque called "bawbie". I keep thinking of Barbie dolls when I hear it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sleepy in Seoul
Joined: 15 May 2004
Location: Going in ever decreasing circles until I eventually disappear up my own fundament - in NZ
|
| Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 4:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| MollyBloom wrote: |
| I guess that's part of my point. People have been mispronouncing certain words for so long, that it becomes difficult to determine what is proper. February is supposed to be "Feb-ru-ary", but now it has become acceptable to say "Feb-u-ary." I do agree that language is living, changing, and evolving all the time. That's one of the most fascinating things about language. And now, even in dictionaries, the incorrect, yet common, pronunciation becomes the vernacular. Good example= forte. |
If you think that forte pronounced 'fortay' is incorrect then don't even think about travelling to any place where people speak British English. Every reference site I have looked at states that the 'fortay' pronunciation is English and 'fort' is American. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MollyBloom
Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Location: James Joyce's pants
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 6:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Young FRANKenstein wrote: |
Back to the OT:
expresso
|
Ugh. My mom does that all the time. She also says "mammy-o-gram" for mammogram. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MollyBloom
Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Location: James Joyce's pants
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 6:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Sleepy in Seoul wrote: |
| MollyBloom wrote: |
| I guess that's part of my point. People have been mispronouncing certain words for so long, that it becomes difficult to determine what is proper. February is supposed to be "Feb-ru-ary", but now it has become acceptable to say "Feb-u-ary." I do agree that language is living, changing, and evolving all the time. That's one of the most fascinating things about language. And now, even in dictionaries, the incorrect, yet common, pronunciation becomes the vernacular. Good example= forte. |
If you think that forte pronounced 'fortay' is incorrect then don't even think about travelling to any place where people speak British English. Every reference site I have looked at states that the 'fortay' pronunciation is English and 'fort' is American. |
This particular example isn't about accents, it's about mispronouncing words AND confusing the definitions. Forte, meaning a musical term, comes from the Italian term. If you are speaking about one's strength, it's pronounced "fort." The problem is that people THINK the Italian musical term is the same as one's strength, but it's not.
If you want to try to make a point about accents, Brits would pronounce forte, meaning one's strength, differently than Americans, something like "fawt"...but still that's different if they were to pronounce the musical term "faw-tay." There IS a difference. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tzechuk
Joined: 20 Dec 2004
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 6:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
Actually, I think you're quite wrong.
FORTE in Italian means LOUD. It is not restricted to music.
The musical instrument, Piano, is really PianoForte, but it is rarely used now. Piano means soft, whereas Forte means loud, in Italian. Both are commonly used everyday words.
One quick search of an online Italian translation shows that Forte in Italian means:
| Quote: |
adv. strongly, forcefully, powerfully; aloud, loudly
adj. strong, robust, forte, sturdy, big, stout, heavy; potent, forceful, puissant, mighty; loud
n. fort, fortress, stronghold |
Make what you will of it.
Oh and btw, being a Brit, I have yet to come across someone who pronounces Forte *fawt*.
One more:
From Dictionary.com:
| Quote: |
| 1648, from Fr. fort "strong point (of a sword blade)," also "fort," from M.Fr. fort (see fort); final -e- added 18c. in imitation of It. forte "strong." Meaning "strong point of a person" is from 1682. |
So even the French converted to the Italian way 300 years ago...
Last edited by tzechuk on Mon Jun 01, 2009 6:58 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MollyBloom
Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Location: James Joyce's pants
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 6:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
| tzechuk wrote: |
Actually, I think you're all quite wrong.
FORTE in Italian means LOUD. It is not restricted to music.
The musical instrument, Piano, is really PianoForte, but it is rarely used now. Piano means soft, whereas Forte means loud, in Italian. Both are commonly used everyday words.
One quick search of an online Italian translation shows that Forte in Italian means:
| Quote: |
adv. strongly, forcefully, powerfully; aloud, loudly
adj. strong, robust, forte, sturdy, big, stout, heavy; potent, forceful, puissant, mighty; loud
n. fort, fortress, stronghold |
Make what you will of it.
Oh and btw, being a Brit, I have yet to come across someone who pronounces Forte *fawt*. |
So, as being a Brit, you pronounce it with an American accent? I think you pronounce it quite differently. If you couldn't envision the sound I was going for...
*Just called some Brit friends. They seem to pronounce forte the way I thought it to be pronounced by a Brit. One is from London, other from Newcastle. Suppose you are from a different region, then? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
beercanman
Joined: 16 May 2009
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I tried to change the motion of the sea. Language is like that. Forget about it. Wrong usage commonly used will replace correct usage after a while. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tzechuk
Joined: 20 Dec 2004
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
Must be. I am from the Midlands.
I just called my adopted mother (born and bred Derbyshire, grammar school, Music, French, English triple major at uni in the late 40s) and she said my pronunciation of it is perfect.. but then again, my mother is a stickler for *proper* pronunciation. Since the word's root is Italian, she prefers to say it the Italian way (she is a fluent French and Italian speaker).
BTW, I don't pronounce it the American way - I pronounce it the Italian way.
Last edited by tzechuk on Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:08 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MollyBloom
Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Location: James Joyce's pants
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
| beercanman wrote: |
| I tried to change the motion of the sea. Language is like that. Forget about it. Wrong usage commonly used will replace correct usage after a while. |
You are completely right, but correct is correct. For example, when teachers here say they teach British and English pronunciations of certain words, fine. I can see the logic in that. It's smart to teach them to adapt to the language and recognize differences. However, that's different than teaching them the incorrect way to pronounce a word. For example, someone previously said "expresso" for "espresso." The former is incorrect. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MollyBloom
Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Location: James Joyce's pants
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
| tzechuk wrote: |
Must be. I am from the Midlands.
I just called my adopted mother (born and bred Derbyshire, grammar school, Music, French, English triple major at uni in the late 40s) and she said my pronunciation of it is perfect.. but then again, my mother is a stickler for *proper* pronunciation. Since the word's root is Italian, she prefers to say it the Italian way (she is a fluent French and Italian speaker).
BTW, I don't pronounce it the American way - I pronounce it the Italian way. |
It's not an "American" way. I'm American and I don't pronounce the word with a British accent. That would be ridiculous.
Again, it depends on how you are using it. I don't disagree with you if you are using the Italian term (with the long A sound at the end), in music or to rephrase as you said "loud," but if you are talking about one's strength, it's pronounced differently, as "fort"...with no long A at the end. There's different definitions for forte and two separate pronunciations for each word. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
