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catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
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 Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:47 am Post subject: |
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There is still NO EVIDENCE the two were even in
NK, they may have and probably were on the Chinese
side of the border, beacuse the original article states
the two were arrested when they refused to stop taking pictures
towards the NK side.
Also where is thier Chinese guide they were arrested with?
I seriously doubt any local Chinese person would knowingly
go into NK without permission..
"Some reports have suggested the women were held while on Chinese soil, but Pyongyang's state media say they had illegally entered North Korea. "
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8089290.stm |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| Pluto wrote: |
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Al Gore was at the 92nd St. Y earlier this week, making jokes about drug addicts. Meanwhile, as of this morning, imprisoned Current.TV journalists Laura Ling and Euna Lee - Gore's employees - are facing further hearings in North Korea.
...
Gore has been silent on the issue, Current.TV told their people to not say a word about it. It's no less disconcerting that Gore was, according to the Page Six item, at a fundraiser for Andrew Cuomo earlier in the day, instead of working - doing something, anything - to free his employees from what's probably the worst work-related trip of all time. Meanwhile, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's now threatening to put North Korea back on our country's list of "Terror States" as of this morning, and President Obama just told them that we're not playin' when it comes to nuclear proliferation as of yesterday. Things are absolutely getting worse, and it's pretty clear that if North Korea views Ling and Lee as diplomatic pawns, our government sure as hell doesn't.
Gore's got several points of entry he can make: among the few political issues Pyongyang takes "public" is climate change. The North Korean government loves to have their asses kissed, and the Department of State hasn't ruled out Gore's involvement, so him coming simply as a diplomat couldn't be a bad thing.
So what's Gore waiting for? Our government's approval? A PR angle? Whatever it is, it better come quick. There's virtually no idea out there of what Ling and Lee are going through, or how they're being treated. Ling and Lee could be fine. They could simply get deported, get off scot-free. But Lee's got family in South Korea. Who, you know, North Korea doesn't really like. Which is besides Americans, which Ling and Lee both are. |
From Gawker via Reason. |
Gore is all about Gore. The inconvenient truth is that he's a self-obsessed douchebag. That said, it is probably the case that behind the scenes stuff is happening. |
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Cordova
Joined: 14 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Where is that dynamic international UN envoy Hans Blix? Probably smokin' big 'uns in Amsterdam. |
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nene
Joined: 11 Jun 2005
Location: Samcheok, Gangwon-do
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| Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Gore is all about Gore. The inconvenient truth is that he's a self-obsessed douchebag. That said, it is probably the case that behind the scenes stuff is happening. |
Of course stuff is happening behind the scenes, and of course that's why he's not speaking publically. And all politicians are self-obsessed, it's one of many filters that lead us to having none but insane, egomaniacal workaholics with no perspective as leaders.
And to whoever said there's no reason NK would go across the boarder to nab these two... please. This is a huge bargaining chip for NK.
Obama, in contrast to Bush, seems a little more serious about getting tough with NK. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/08/world/asia/08korea.html?_r=1&th&emc=th |
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Pluto
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| Gore is all about Gore. The inconvenient truth is that he's a self-obsessed douchebag. |
Yeah, those were my first thoughts too. I found it strange that Al Gore's been pretty tight lipped about the whole ordeal. I found it even stranger that Current.tv put a gag order on all their staff. Truth is though, after a second thought, I think this whole ordeal is keeping Al awake at night. He may just be following the advice of the Obama admin. working behind closed doors of course. The silence may just be a sort of OpSec thing. I am sure Obama, Clinton and Gore are listening to the advice of their respective advisers. In short, I think it's best to give them the benefit of the doubt, and assume everyone is acting in good faith to secure the girls' release. |
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shifter2009
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Location: wisconsin
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| Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Cordova wrote: |
| Where is that dynamic international UN envoy Hans Blix? Probably smokin' big 'uns in Amsterdam. |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0hk9vaqWUg
Oh no, not hans bwix |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| How much local anger do you think would be vented against the North if neither of those women were Korean-American? (Yes, I know only one of them is.) |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| Gore is all about Gore. The inconvenient truth is that he's a self-obsessed douchebag. |
Except when it comes to fighting for his wrongfully denied election. Then he is suddenly selfless. But I do agree with the "douchebag" part. |
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stevieg4ever
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Location: London, England
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| Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:00 am Post subject: |
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If they did the crime they should do the time I am afraid. If they were found to be guilty of inappropriate actions on North Korean soil then its upto to the North Koreans to decide their respective fates.
Just because they are American / from the west or whatever doesnt mean they should receive special treatment. How often do you see posters on here harp on about having to respect local laws etc or in our own countries when people continually bash immigrants for not 'respecting society etc', we cant just march into another country and expect to receive special treatment. |
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catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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| stevieg4ever wrote: |
If they did the crime they should do the time I am afraid. If they were found to be guilty of inappropriate actions on North Korean soil then its upto to the North Koreans to decide their respective fates.
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North Korea has never said what "hostile actions" they did.
They should have been deported. |
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gypsyfish
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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| stevieg4ever wrote: |
If they did the crime they should do the time I am afraid. If they were found to be guilty of inappropriate actions on North Korean soil then its upto to the North Koreans to decide their respective fates.
Just because they are American / from the west or whatever doesnt mean they should receive special treatment. How often do you see posters on here harp on about having to respect local laws etc or in our own countries when people continually bash immigrants for not 'respecting society etc', we cant just march into another country and expect to receive special treatment. |
What do you think the appropriate 'time' shoiuld be for the crime of illegally entering North Korea, (if they indeed do that)? Twelve years in a labor camp? Baby/bathwater.
Wouldn't a fine and deportation be a tad bit more appropriate? |
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NAVFC
Joined: 10 May 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:04 am Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
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| For all we know, they may have been abducted on the Chinese side of the boarder. |
I was thinking about that possibility, but then I wondered...
What is the likelihood that the Norks would send someone to China for the purpose abducting Americans? China's the Sugar Daddy in the Sino-Nork relationship, and I can't imagine they would be too pleased to have the regime they're helping to keep afloat trying to provoke confrontations with Uncle Sam on Chinese territory. |
Eh? What are you talking about? If they were able to photograph north korea it would mean that they were right on the border, it wouldnt be much to send NK guards to step a few dozen feet over the chinese border to capture some people. Its not like were talking NK soldiers going deep into chinese cities to find these 2. |
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The Great Wall of Whiner
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Location: Middle Land
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| Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
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Another American who stood trial in North Korea in 1996 was treated more leniently. Evan C. Hunziker, apparently acting on a drunken dare, swam across the Yalu River dividing North Korea from China.
He was accused of spying and detained for three months before being freed after Richardson, then a congressman, traveled to Pyongyang to negotiate for his release.
The North Koreans wanted Hunziker to pay a $100,000 criminal fine but eventually agreed on a $5,000 payment to settle a bill for a hotel where he was detained.
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I can't believe the US paid a single dime for this idiot.
link |
They didn't. His family paid the "ransom".
What's with the right of centre posters using so much aggressive language and insulting, BTW? |
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The Great Wall of Whiner
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Location: Middle Land
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| Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 12:02 am Post subject: |
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| NAVFC wrote: |
| On the other hand wrote: |
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| For all we know, they may have been abducted on the Chinese side of the boarder. |
I was thinking about that possibility, but then I wondered...
What is the likelihood that the Norks would send someone to China for the purpose abducting Americans? China's the Sugar Daddy in the Sino-Nork relationship, and I can't imagine they would be too pleased to have the regime they're helping to keep afloat trying to provoke confrontations with Uncle Sam on Chinese territory. |
Eh? What are you talking about? If they were able to photograph north korea it would mean that they were right on the border, it wouldnt be much to send NK guards to step a few dozen feet over the chinese border to capture some people. Its not like were talking NK soldiers going deep into chinese cities to find these 2. |
And it's not like we are talking about the two girls waltzing deep into North Korea either. The whole "they were spying on our country" line is ridiculous. America can do much better than two fraile girls, only one of whom speaks Korean, and even that not fluently. |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 5:51 am Post subject: |
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The whole scenario is getting more complicated now by the fact the Norks have sworn to devote all their energies to getting a bomb ASAP.
North Korea declares all-out push for nuclear weapons
Regime retaliates against fresh UN sanctions by announcing it will turn all its plutonium into bomb material
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jun/13/north-korea-nuclear-weapon-plutonium |
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