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A Canadian is drinking the Dokdo Kool-Aid
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superacidjax



Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:40 am    Post subject: A Canadian is drinking the Dokdo Kool-Aid Reply with quote

http://www.koreaherald.co.kr/NEWKHSITE/data/html_dir/2009/06/15/200906150006.asp

My question is pretty simple: who cares? The story mentions that aside from a few right-wing Japanese lawmakers, most of Japan ignores the issue. Probably because it really doesn't make one bit of difference to anyone outside of Korea.

If Korea would put half as much effort into learning English as they put into the worthless Dokdo debate.. we'd all be out of jobs and Korea would be totally fluent.

Dokdo, Liancourt Rocks.. whatever. South Korea has a very real enemy to the North that is threatening nuclear war, yet they often show more rage over a stupid little island (whose inhabitants dump 8 tons of sewage into the ocean each day.) The cell phone towers on the island are also obscene. Isn't the place supposed to be a nature reserve? If not, shouldn't it be?

Here's the solution to Dokdo: there are two islands right? Make it a jointly administered autonomous region like Cyprus. Or just clear the island of humanity and just forget about it.

And. It's the SEA OF JAPAN and the Yellow Sea. I'm so sick of seeing East Sea/West sea everywhere. The English name of a place should have no relevance to Korea. I don't demand that they change 미국 to something else.. they ought to stop demanding that we change Sea of Japan to something else. I don't know of Canada or the United States forming official government organizations to lobby other countries to change the foreign name of anything. Yet, Korea does.

How about changing the Gulf of Mexico's name to the Gulf of Texas? Most people don't care.

Thankfully, most Koreans with whom I associate don't really care about the debate that much either. I'm sure they have their personal feelings, but they don't made a crusade out of every perceived slight. I'm thankful that the majority of Koreans just want to have a country safe from nuclear attack, raise their children, drink soju and live their life..
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RJjr



Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Location: Turning on a Lamp

PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No wonder he's wearing a Yankees cap. We Americans are usually the only ones sticking our noses in the disputes between other countries, especially when they don't pertain to us. He needs to renounce his Canadian citizenship and report to New York for duty immediately.
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eperdue4ad



Joined: 22 May 2006

PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eh, he just fancies himself an academic. Actually the term (or form of) 'academic' appears five times in the article, I suppose to give his obsession more credence. But people have devoted their lives to studying much more minute things, so whatever he wishes to call the Sea of Japan and Liancourt Rocks is fine by me.
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Julius



Joined: 27 Jul 2006

PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:06 am    Post subject: Re: A Canadian is drinking the Dokdo Kool-Aid Reply with quote

superacidjax wrote:
(whose inhabitants dump 8 tons of sewage into the ocean each day.) ..


Impossible. Dokdo has only two people living on it.

Quote:
The present residents are the couple Gim Seong-do and Gim Sin-yeol who have been living at the address 63 mountain since November 17, 1991. Their main job is fishery.

http://www.dokdocorea.com/dokdo.htm


you're trying to tell us that they produce 4 tons of faeces, per person, per day??
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eperdue4ad



Joined: 22 May 2006

PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:58 am    Post subject: Re: A Canadian is drinking the Dokdo Kool-Aid Reply with quote

Julius wrote:



you're trying to tell us that they produce 4 tons of faeces, per person, per day??



I saw that statistic too (Wikipedia) and thought HTH is that possible...the page says the trash and sewage from the Korean police/Coast Guard but still sounds inflated... Here's what it says

Pollution and Environmental Destruction

There is a serious concern for pollution in the seas surrounding Liancourt Rocks. The sewage water treatment system established on the islets have malfunctioned and the sewage water produced by inhabitants of Liancourt Rocks such as South Korean Coast Guard and lighthouse staff is being dumped directly into the ocean. Significant water pollution has been observed; sea water has turned milky white, sea vegetations are progressively dying off, and calcification of coral reefs is spreading. The pollution is also causing loss of biodiversity in the surrounding seas. As of November 2004[update], 8 tons of malodorous sludge is still dumped into the ocean every day.


If any part of that is true, whoever claims the Rocks should start taking care of them better. Disgraceful.
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superacidjax



Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 2:35 am    Post subject: Re: A Canadian is drinking the Dokdo Kool-Aid Reply with quote

Julius wrote:
[
Impossible. Dokdo has only two people living on it.


Not true. There is a regiment of police of at least 40 officers who are on the island and rotate out periodically.
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okokok



Joined: 27 Aug 2006

PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:08 am    Post subject: Re: A Canadian is drinking the Dokdo Kool-Aid Reply with quote

eperdue4ad wrote:

Pollution and Environmental Destruction

There is a serious concern for pollution in the seas surrounding Liancourt Rocks. The sewage water treatment system established on the islets have malfunctioned and the sewage water produced by inhabitants of Liancourt Rocks such as South Korean Coast Guard and lighthouse staff is being dumped directly into the ocean. Significant water pollution has been observed; sea water has turned milky white, sea vegetations are progressively dying off, and calcification of coral reefs is spreading. The pollution is also causing loss of biodiversity in the surrounding seas. As of November 2004[update], 8 tons of malodorous sludge is still dumped into the ocean every day.


If any part of that is true, whoever claims the Rocks should start taking care of them better. Disgraceful.


But they love Dokdo so much. It's the same love they show for their children who they never put a seatbelt on, or teach how to cross the road properly.
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Julius



Joined: 27 Jul 2006

PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:57 am    Post subject: Re: A Canadian is drinking the Dokdo Kool-Aid Reply with quote

eperdue4ad wrote:
... should start taking care of them better. Disgraceful.


Absolutely.
They made a dokdo campaign by promoting the seagull as dokdo's official mascot, not to mention produced a set of stamps depicting the islnds beautiful wildlife in heritance.
But now that two ferry-loads of korean tourists per day have triumphantly run amok all over the island every summer, scientists have found that the number of nesting seagulls on the island has crashed by two thirds.
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superacidjax



Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to clarify my position. I'm not arguing for or against Korean sovereignty of "Dokdo." I am merely suggesting that in order to save it, they feel that they must destroy it.. with either tourism or pollution.

If there is such a love for Dokdo, it should be about protecting it as a treasure rather than despoiling it by stationing a platoon of police upon it.

Additionally, I think that their passion regarding Dokdo could be better placed within the international community. If someone comes to me (if I were a diplomat) crying about a little chunk of rock when there are more significant issues facing that country, I'd have to try very hard not to laugh. After all, Korea is facing an economic downturn, mostly due to a reactive trade policy (protectionism, silly riots, etc) along with a very real crisis to the north. Yet, Dokdo still gets major attention in this country.
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Julius



Joined: 27 Jul 2006

PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

superacidjax wrote:
If someone comes to me (if I were a diplomat) crying about a little chunk of rock when there are more significant issues facing that country, I'd have to try very hard not to laugh.


The UK went to war over a little Island called the Falklands.


Countries can be notoriously protective about little pieces of rock.
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And a few years ago Canada and Denmark were feuding over a even smaller rock (1.3 square kilometers) called Hans Island.

A Canadian man even bought an advertisement on Google to protest against the Danish claim to the island.

Hmm...sound like any other nation we know?
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asams



Joined: 17 Nov 2008

PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheUrbanMyth wrote:
And a few years ago Canada and Denmark were feuding over a even smaller rock (1.3 square kilometers) called Hans Island.

A Canadian man even bought an advertisement on Google to protest against the Danish claim to the island.

Hmm...sound like any other nation we know?


yeah, but when America wants something we go out and get it. We use force (or money), not words. Just look at the Louisiana Purchase, Texas, pretty much all of the western states, Hawaii, Alaska, the Philippines, and countless others. We didn't put stupid ads up on Google for those places, we fought (or paid) for them like real countries
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supernick



Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TUM. Do you mean this story?

According to an article in the Ottawa Citizen on July 27, 2005, Toronto resident Rick Broadhead saw an ad on Google stating "Hans Island is Greenland. Greenland natives have used the island for centuries" and which linked to a Danish foreign affairs webpage that stated that Danish Ministry of Foreign Affairs had sent a note to Canada's ambassador to Denmark on July 25, 2005 expressing Denmark's regret that "the Canadian Minister of National Defence had paid a visit to Hans Island without prior notification of the Danish Government."[9] Poul Erik Dam Kristensen, Denmark's ambassador to Canada, told the press that the paid advertisement was not a Danish government initiative and whoever placed it was acting alone.

Canada will seek an international resolution to the dispute, and may win. The difference is, is that South Korea will play the emotional card, and use this over and over again. They like it the way it is.
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

asams wrote:
TheUrbanMyth wrote:
And a few years ago Canada and Denmark were feuding over a even smaller rock (1.3 square kilometers) called Hans Island.

A Canadian man even bought an advertisement on Google to protest against the Danish claim to the island.

Hmm...sound like any other nation we know?


yeah, but when America wants something we go out and get it. We use force (or money), not words. Just look at the Louisiana Purchase, Texas, pretty much all of the western states, Hawaii, Alaska, the Philippines, and countless others. We didn't put stupid ads up on Google for those places, we fought (or paid) for them like real countries


But those examples are many years ago...back then all countries with strong armies/navies did the same thing. Nowadays (see the claims to the Arctic region) it's more diplomatic. I doubt America seriously wants to go to war with say Russia over the North Pole.
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

supernick wrote:
TUM. Do you mean this story?

According to an article in the Ottawa Citizen on July 27, 2005, Toronto resident Rick Broadhead saw an ad on Google stating "Hans Island is Greenland. Greenland natives have used the island for centuries" and which linked to a Danish foreign affairs webpage that stated that Danish Ministry of Foreign Affairs had sent a note to Canada's ambassador to Denmark on July 25, 2005 expressing Denmark's regret that "the Canadian Minister of National Defence had paid a visit to Hans Island without prior notification of the Danish Government."[9] Poul Erik Dam Kristensen, Denmark's ambassador to Canada, told the press that the paid advertisement was not a Danish government initiative and whoever placed it was acting alone.

Canada will seek an international resolution to the dispute, and may win. The difference is, is that South Korea will play the emotional card, and use this over and over again. They like it the way it is.


Actually neither Canada or Denmark have sought a international resolution as of yet. They've called a truce for now. But this provoked a couple of diplomatic quarrels before the truce was called, and given Canada's plans to have a more muscular presence in the North, it may yet flare up again.

My point was that stuff like Dokdo is neither new nor confined to countries like Korea, therefore it is the height of hypocrisy for people who come from countries that have on-going territoral disputes to complain about Korea doing this.
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