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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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 Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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| lithium wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
I didn't find it particularly funny, but at the same time I can't say it's particularly offensive either. People who practice politics of the sort the Palin family practices open themselves up for mockery.
When Sarah Palin stops talking, she'll stop being talked about. I'm not saying she should stop talking mind you, just that this family brings it upon itself. Hell, their own responses to Letterman's joke demonstrate exactly the sort of thing that makes so much of America laugh at them. Come on, trying to construe the joke as being about their 14 year old instead of about the daughter who all ready had a baby out of wedlock once?
When are people going to stop being so whiny about what comedian's say? That goes for the likes of Hannity, Limbaugh, etc as well, who might not intend to be comedians, but manage just fine at it none the less. These people mock our society for a living. If you don't think they're funny, don't watch them. |
She had the 14 year old at the game not the 18 year old. |
The 18-year-old had the baby out of wedlock at 16, not the 14-year-old.
Ultimately, aren't we just splitting hairs? I mean, does a year or two make a universe of difference? |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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| ManintheMiddle wrote: |
Fox replied:
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| John McCain certainly seems to think so, and Sarah Palin consented to actively try to get this man into the highest elected office in the land, so she certainly seems to think it's all right as well. |
Just because she supported McCain for President doesn't mean she condoned every public remark he ever made. |
Given how vigorously she is currently attacking this statement, her silence on McCain's statement is more than conspicuous. I think anyone not blinded by their political agenda can see exactly how much she really cares about this topic, which is as far as she can milk it for political gain.
She did more than support McCain for President, she ran along side him without addressing this issue which seems to be very important in her mind right now. That's hypocrisy. If you care to admit it's hypocrisy, that's cool. If you don't care to, that's cool too.
| ManintheMiddle wrote: |
| If that were the case then Joe Biden should have distanced himself from Obama, who on Letterman made an insensitive crack about Special Olympics. |
If Joe Biden is complaining about that sort of joke, Joe Biden is a hypocrite for the same reason. Is he complaining about that sort of joke?
| ManintheMiddle wrote: |
Fox persisted to outfox himself:
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| As far as me, I figure everyone knows exactly what public figures go through, and politicians make a knowing, consentual choice to subject themselves and their families to it. Take from that what you will. |
I see. So then Obama had no business telling the press to lay off his family, eh? |
He can tell the press whatever he likes, and they can refuse to comply, as they did. I'm fairly generous to my debate opponents, but your response in this case is totally invalid. You said Obama told the press to lay off his family and that they complied. The press assuredly did not comply, as my counterexamples demonstrate.
| ManintheMiddle wrote: |
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| talking about Obama's poor half-brother in Kenya, as well as the member of Obama's family who was illegally in the United States at the time |
You're comparing apples and oranges now. |
Family is family; I responded to your words. I didn't realize Obama's words were that his family was off limits, except for my brother and my aunt.
| ManintheMiddle wrote: |
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| An abstinence-only philosophy regarding teen sex and pregnancy is unrealistic and does more harm than good. I think she's a hypocrite that's full of rubbish and is only doing what she's doing for her mother's politics. |
How can observing abstinence do more harm than good? |
Preaching said philosophy is what does more harm than good. Teens aren't going to remain abstinent. The best way to deal with this is realistic measures like education and birth control distribution. The worst way is to say, "Hey, you shouldn't do it," because not only does it not work, it both creates unrealistic expectations and wastes funds that could otherwise have been usefully distributed.
| ManintheMiddle wrote: |
And you haven't yet made clear how Palin is a hypocrite. |
Attacking David Letterman for making this kind of joke about her family when it's politically expedient while not attacking John McCain (and in fact supporting him for the highest office in the land) for making a joke about Chelsea Clinton when it wasn't politically expedient for her is hypocrisy.
| ManintheMiddle wrote: |
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| I find it fairly easy to believe that's who he meant. |
Of course you do because it conforms to your (just professed) views on the matter. But, again, if he meant it, why didn't he say it? |
He did; only people who deliberate want to misunderstand, misunderstood.
| ManintheMiddle wrote: |
| He's been doing monologues too long to make this sloppy mistake. |
Quite the contrary, the sheer volume of monologues he gives almost necessitates that he will from time to time make a "sloppy mistake." And at times, there will be a conniving, hypocritical politician like Palin to try to use such mistakes to the political benefit of herself and her party.
| ManintheMiddle wrote: |
| Levi is a low-life for sharing such details, which might or might not be true. |
But Palin isn't a low life for allowing it to happen. Everyone is to blame except for Palin. |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:50 am Post subject: |
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| ubermenzch wrote: |
| the big loser is probably the GOP, because let's be honest, having palin as the head of your party would not be a good thing for them. |
I agree.
However, she'd be eaten alive in the Primaries by other Republican candidates anyways.
But yes, I do think the GOP is the big loser in this. They need to find a REAL leader. Particularly an ECONOMIC leader on the FISCAL CONSERVATIVE side. Someone with strong libertarian leanings. The sooner they find him, the better.
Why they insist on rallying around an inexperienced moralist (who half of the country see as a hypocrite, AND who cost McCain the election), is beyond me. |
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RJjr
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Location: Turning on a Lamp
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| Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:55 am Post subject: |
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This whole thing kind of reminds me of when football star Champ Bailey got charged with statutory rape. He's black and was 17 at the time. He had a white 15 year old girlfriend. Her father pressed charges against Bailey even though the girl's ex-boyfriend was a 19 year old white guy. If Bailey hadn't been a prize recruit with NFL talent on his way to ball (no pun intended) for the University of Georgia, he'd still probably be in jail.
Sarah Palin's underage daughter got knocked up by an adult white athlete and she proudly put him on display during the Republican convention. But the mere mention of a black/latino athlete knocking up one of her daughters and she has a conniption fit...
I bet if it had been a black or latino baseball player instead of a white hockey player who knocked up Bristol, there's no way in Hell the baby daddy would've been invited to the Republican convention. It wouldn't have been Republican "family values" if the daddy had been black or latino.  |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:23 am Post subject: |
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| Tiger Beer wrote: |
| ubermenzch wrote: |
| the big loser is probably the GOP, because let's be honest, having palin as the head of your party would not be a good thing for them. |
I agree.
However, she'd be eaten alive in the Primaries by other Republican candidates anyways.
But yes, I do think the GOP is the big loser in this. They need to find a REAL leader. Particularly an ECONOMIC leader on the FISCAL CONSERVATIVE side. Someone with strong libertarian leanings. The sooner they find him, the better. |
Yes, it is a damn shame the stringpullers wouldn't let Ron Paul get anywhere near a nomination.
Yes, they blew it, but only in the most simplistic political sense. They did however manage, with the election of Obushama, to keep just about all the same policies as before. All they have lost is a figurehead. |
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ManintheMiddle
Joined: 20 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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Well, Letterman is finally having to eat some crow but not of his own volition.
| Quote: |
Letterman apologizes again for his Palin joke
By FRAZIER MOORE (AP)
NEW YORK � David Letterman said his joke about Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin's daughter was a lousy joke, no matter how you cut it, and he's sorry. But the late-night host insisted that what's got people really riled is the misconception over which Palin daughter the joke was about.
On Monday's edition of "Late Show," Letterman explained that the risque joke thought by some to have targeted Palin's underage daughter, Willow, was actually referring to 18-year-old daughter Bristol. The name of the daughter wasn't mentioned in the joke, which was part of Letterman's monologue on last Monday's show.
It was "a coarse joke," "a bad joke," Letterman told viewers. "But I never thought it was (about) anybody other than the older daughter, and before the show, I checked to make sure, in fact, that she is of legal age, 18."
"The joke, really, in and of itself, can't be defended," he declared.
Even so, the ongoing outcry, led by Palin and her husband, Todd, has centered on Letterman intending to make a joke about the Palins' 14-year-old daughter having sex with a Yankees baseball player.
Todd Palin issued a statement last week that said "any 'jokes' about raping my 14-year-old are despicable."
And Sarah Palin charged Letterman with "sexually perverted comments made by a 62-year-old male celebrity."
On Monday's show, Letterman said, "I'm wondering, 'Well, what can I do to help people understand that I would never make a joke like this?' I've never made jokes like this, as long as we've been on the air, 30 long years."
If that's the misconception � that the joke was aimed at a 14-year-old � he understands why people are upset, he said. "I would be upset myself." Letterman has said from the beginning that he thought the Palin daughter who attended the Yankee game was Bristol.
"I feel that I need to do the right thing here and apologize for having told that joke," he said. "It's not your fault that it was misunderstood, it's my fault that it was misunderstood."
He apologized to both daughters, "and also to the Governor and her family and everybody else who was outraged by the joke," he said as the studio audience applauded. "I'm sorry about it, and I'll try to do better in the future." |
You can bet it came at the behest of CBS execs rather than any soul-searching. NYC liberal elites have no honor when it comes to making apologies. They prevaricate, rationalize, and engage in euphemisms. They can almost never call a spade a spade. Interesting to note that the Hilton Hotel group has pulled their commercial spots from Letterman's show over this, which is what also prompted the execs to intervene. Had there been no blowback, Letterman would never have apologized. But, alas, some in the mainstream media have already spun this as his "second apology." But his first apology was half-ass at best so it doesn't count and he used it to make yet another jibe at Sarah Palin. |
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ubermenzch
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
Location: bundang, south korea
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| Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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| ManintheMiddle wrote: |
Well, Letterman is finally having to eat some crow but not of his own volition.
| Quote: |
Letterman apologizes again for his Palin joke
By FRAZIER MOORE (AP)
NEW YORK � David Letterman said his joke about Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin's daughter was a lousy joke, no matter how you cut it, and he's sorry. But the late-night host insisted that what's got people really riled is the misconception over which Palin daughter the joke was about.
On Monday's edition of "Late Show," Letterman explained that the risque joke thought by some to have targeted Palin's underage daughter, Willow, was actually referring to 18-year-old daughter Bristol. The name of the daughter wasn't mentioned in the joke, which was part of Letterman's monologue on last Monday's show.
It was "a coarse joke," "a bad joke," Letterman told viewers. "But I never thought it was (about) anybody other than the older daughter, and before the show, I checked to make sure, in fact, that she is of legal age, 18."
"The joke, really, in and of itself, can't be defended," he declared.
Even so, the ongoing outcry, led by Palin and her husband, Todd, has centered on Letterman intending to make a joke about the Palins' 14-year-old daughter having sex with a Yankees baseball player.
Todd Palin issued a statement last week that said "any 'jokes' about raping my 14-year-old are despicable."
And Sarah Palin charged Letterman with "sexually perverted comments made by a 62-year-old male celebrity."
On Monday's show, Letterman said, "I'm wondering, 'Well, what can I do to help people understand that I would never make a joke like this?' I've never made jokes like this, as long as we've been on the air, 30 long years."
If that's the misconception � that the joke was aimed at a 14-year-old � he understands why people are upset, he said. "I would be upset myself." Letterman has said from the beginning that he thought the Palin daughter who attended the Yankee game was Bristol.
"I feel that I need to do the right thing here and apologize for having told that joke," he said. "It's not your fault that it was misunderstood, it's my fault that it was misunderstood."
He apologized to both daughters, "and also to the Governor and her family and everybody else who was outraged by the joke," he said as the studio audience applauded. "I'm sorry about it, and I'll try to do better in the future." |
You can bet it came at the behest of CBS execs rather than any soul-searching. NYC liberal elites have no honor when it comes to making apologies. They prevaricate, rationalize, and engage in euphemisms. They can almost never call a spade a spade. Interesting to note that the Hilton Hotel group has pulled their commercial spots from Letterman's show over this, which is what also prompted the execs to intervene. Had there been no blowback, Letterman would never have apologized. But, alas, some in the mainstream media have already spun this as his "second apology." But his first apology was half-ass at best so it doesn't count and he used it to make yet another jibe at Sarah Palin. |
hehe funny. i'm interested to know how you would like to see this end. what would satisfy you?
you conjure up the image of a very persistent hammer, nailing down all the points which your ideology requires of you. a drone. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:30 am Post subject: |
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| ubermenzch wrote: |
you conjure up the image of a very persistent hammer, nailing down all the points which your ideology requires of you. a drone. |
Boringly and predictably droning on and on and on and on about "the liberals." Does anyone ever know about whom he is talking anyway? |
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ManintheMiddle
Joined: 20 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:17 am Post subject: |
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Fox was unrelenting:
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| Given how vigorously she is currently attacking this statement, her silence on McCain's statement is more than conspicuous. |
You've run out of straws to grasp. Now you're chasing your own tail and the hounds are closing in.
McCain's statement was made at a private function of well-wishers, not before a national TV audience. And while that does not excuse his comment, neither does it impugn Palin.
NEWS ALERT
McCain's tasteless joke was made 11 years ago, long before Palin came on the scene. So bringing that out of the archives to accuse Palin of hypocrisy is lame.
And then this gem:
| Quote: |
| That's hypocrisy. If you care to admit it's hypocrisy, that's cool. If you don't care to, that's cool too. |
Ah, ever the relativistic reaction, in quintessential liberal laizze faire fashion.
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| You said Obama told the press to lay off his family and that they complied. The press assuredly did not comply, as my counterexamples demonstrate. |
What examples? What alley are you barking up now?
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| Family is family; I responded to your words. I didn't realize Obama's words were that his family was off limits, except for my brother and my aunt. |
Yes, and a rose is a rose. What of it? The press hasn't made perverse jokes about his brother or aunt, have they? Is the mainstream media talking about his immediate family? Is there something wrong with calling attention to an illegal immigrant?
| Quote: |
| Teens aren't going to remain abstinent. The best way to deal with this is realistic measures like education and birth control distribution. |
I never claimed that abstinence works for many teens but it has worked for some and that is well documented. Moreover, educators have a social if not moral obligation to dissuade teens from early sex and to provide an alternative lifestyle. If you can't see that then I'm afraid this discussion is dead.
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| Attacking David Letterman for making this kind of joke about her family when it's politically expedient while not attacking John McCain |
Ibid. [see comment above]
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| Quite the contrary, the sheer volume of monologues he gives almost necessitates that he will from time to time |
Bullroar. You're beginning to sound like a defense attorney from a B school. What necessitates exercising such poor judgment when most of us (including most comedians, including liberal Joy Behar of "The View") would never do the same?
| Quote: |
| But Palin isn't a low life for allowing it to happen |
You still haven't presented evidence to support your accusation. But it's immaterial all the same. You really need a course in ethics along with half of the other posters to this thread. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:45 am Post subject: |
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| ManintheMiddle wrote: |
| I never claimed that abstinence works for many teens but it has worked for some and that is well documented. Moreover, educators have a social if not moral obligation to dissuade teens from early sex and to provide an alternative lifestyle. If you can't see that then I'm afraid this discussion is dead. |
They do?  Are you teaching English or Abstinence Only? I have never seen that in any curricula.
Curb your dogma. |
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phoneboothface
Joined: 26 Apr 2009
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:55 am Post subject: |
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| ManintheMiddle wrote: |
They can almost never call a spade a spade. Interesting to note that the Hilton Hotel group has pulled their commercial spots from Letterman's show over this, which is what also prompted the execs to intervene. |
Dude Paris Hilton was like 19 when she made that video.
MitM, you are the most unpleasant poster I've EVAR encountered on an online forum. That's saying alot cuz I troll everywHARE. It's painful to even try to start reading your posts because of your bizarre point of view. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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| ManintheMiddle wrote: |
Fox was unrelenting:
| Quote: |
| Given how vigorously she is currently attacking this statement, her silence on McCain's statement is more than conspicuous. |
You've run out of straws to grasp. Now you're chasing your own tail and the hounds are closing in.
McCain's statement was made at a private function of well-wishers, not before a national TV audience. And while that does not excuse his comment, neither does it impugn Palin.
NEWS ALERT
McCain's tasteless joke was made 11 years ago, long before Palin came on the scene. So bringing that out of the archives to accuse Palin of hypocrisy is lame. |
When it happened is irrelevent, and the venue is also irrelevent. If you think this sort of comment is wrong, it's still wrong in the venue McCain told it in, and regardless of how long ago it was. Palin, despite linking this sort of comment with older men abusing and/or discriminating against young women, didn't seem to think McCain's comment was worthy of reaction. Hypocrisy; how long ago and where it happened didn't matter, it's just as much a part of McCain's personality as it is a part of Letterman's, with all that entails. Palin clearly didn't mind.
| ManintheMiddle wrote: |
| Quote: |
| You said Obama told the press to lay off his family and that they complied. The press assuredly did not comply, as my counterexamples demonstrate. |
What examples? What alley are you barking up now? |
The examples of his aunt and his brother, both of whom are members of his family. I know your argument requires you to pretend they don't count, but they do.
| ManintheMiddle wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Family is family; I responded to your words. I didn't realize Obama's words were that his family was off limits, except for my brother and my aunt. |
Yes, and a rose is a rose. What of it? The press hasn't made perverse jokes about his brother or aunt, have they? |
I didn't realize when Obama said his family was "off limits" that merely meant "Please don't tell perverse jokes about my family." The reason I didn't realize it is because it's not true. Obama made a demand of the press, the press did not comply. Your claim that they did is incorrect.
| ManintheMiddle wrote: |
| Is the mainstream media talking about his immediate family? |
His brother certainly amounts to immediate family, and he was talked about during the election, so yes, at the time they were.
| ManintheMiddle wrote: |
| Is there something wrong with calling attention to an illegal immigrant? |
Not at all; remember, I'm not the one whining bitterly about the media's actions. I'm merely pointing out that they did not comply with Obama's request, which is in opposition to your claim that they did.
| ManintheMiddle wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Teens aren't going to remain abstinent. The best way to deal with this is realistic measures like education and birth control distribution. |
I never claimed that abstinence works for many teens but it has worked for some and that is well documented. Moreover, educators have a social if not moral obligation to dissuade teens from early sex and to provide an alternative lifestyle. If you can't see that then I'm afraid this discussion is dead. |
Educators have no such obligation. Parents certainly do, but we aren't talking about parents here. Educators preaching abstinence only creates unrealistic expectations, wastes funds, and wastes time. If a child's parents can't convince them to remain abstinent, nothing an educator can say will do otherwise; they should focus on realistic goals, not on pointless, politically-driven preaching like Bristol Palin's.
| ManintheMiddle wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Quite the contrary, the sheer volume of monologues he gives almost necessitates that he will from time to time |
Bullroar. You're beginning to sound like a defense attorney from a B school. What necessitates exercising such poor judgment when most of us (including most comedians, including liberal Joy Behar of "The View") would never do the same? |
What necessitates it? Human imperfection, honestly. Understanding that humans are prone to mistakes and will occasionally make them despite their best efforts is civilized. I think most people accept this and live in such a fashion.
| ManintheMiddle wrote: |
| Quote: |
| But Palin isn't a low life for allowing it to happen |
You still haven't presented evidence to support your accusation. |
She was the girl's mother, she bears ethical accountability no matter what you feel the particulars were. I can't help but notice you're extremely reticent to admit that.
| ManintheMiddle wrote: |
| But it's immaterial all the same. You really need a course in ethics along with half of the other posters to this thread. |
I actually took quite a few during my degree, which is why I have the clarity to see the difference between actually unethical acts and trivial words that only someone with a political agenda would become particularly upset over. |
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ubermenzch
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
Location: bundang, south korea
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| Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin has accepted David Letterman�s apology on making a bad joke about her 14-year-old daughter.
In a statement, Palin says she accepts Letterman�s apology �on behalf of young women like my daughters, who hope men who 'joke' about public displays of sexual exploitation of girls will soon evolve.�
"Letterman certainly has the right to 'joke' about whatever he wants to, and thankfully we have the right to express our reaction,� Palin continued in the statement. �And this is all thanks to our U.S. military women and men putting their lives on the line for us to secure America's right to free speech � in this case, may that right be used to promote equality and respect."
On Monday night, Letterman apologized for the second time in one week after he joked about one of Palin�s daughters being �knocked up� by baseball player Alex Rodriguez.
"The joke, really, in and of itself, can't be defended," Letterman said. "I understand why people are upset.�
�I�m sorry about it and I�ll try to do better in the future,� he added.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0609/23791.html#ixzz0Ie8nbSVm&D |
this was taken from politico.com.
yay! she's forgiven him! hopefully we can now all move on from this celebrity feud. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| ubermenzch wrote: |
| �on behalf of young women like my daughters, who hope men who 'joke' about public displays of sexual exploitation of girls will soon evolve.� |
Unless they happen to be Republican presidential candidates, in which case there's no need to comment on this aspect of their personality, and they should even be supported for the highest office in the land despite evidently not taking this (evidently quite important) issue at all seriously.
Does Sarah Palin even believe in evolution?  |
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RJjr
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Location: Turning on a Lamp
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| Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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Why doesn't anyone care about A-Rod? He's a ladies man, not a little girl's man. He gets around but he would never stoop to nailin' a Palin, especially an underage one. That's clearly not how A-Rod rolls. The man has taste and his women are always grown. He was slurred worse than anyone in all of this.
Sarah this, Sarah that. But what about A-Rod? |
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