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LONG TERMERS - HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH 'THE INVISIBLE WALL'
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Jane



Joined: 01 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
[quote="Mr. Pink]I like the aspect of Korean culture where you take care of your kids until they get married (why should we kick our kids out at 18 like in Western societies?) and I also like the idea of taking care of one's parents.


Do you still like these aspects of Korean culture after reading this article?


More Couples with Children Live off Their Parents
An increasing number of people in their 30s and 40s are still dependent on their parents for their own children's education and for living costs. Known as "kangaroo people" because they live in their parents' pouch, their numbers are growing to near 15 percent of parents in the capital, a poll suggests


http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2009/07/04/2009070400152.html
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Leslie Cheswyck



Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: University of Western Chile

PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I paint the invisible wall. I wallpaper it. I hang paintings on it. There, it's not so invisible any more. Laughing
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PatrickGHBusan



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -

PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jane...interesting article. But Mr Pinks point still stands and is alive and well. The support network in Korea within the family is amazing.
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VanIslander



Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!

PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The wall is not invisible!

I saw it before I came here and told myself I'd accept the role of GUEST and live the international EXPAT lifestyle and only go native in some respects, like when eating out in restaurants with Koreans.

Some bang their heads against the wall continually while others don't see it even though it's there, so to them it's indeed invisible - until they hit it.

Everyone can choose for themselves to what degree they want to try and be Korean. There are costs and benefits with whatever one tries to do or not do.

I have had no intentions to be here seven years but it's just turned out that way; I'm becoming a long timer though by no means a committed lifer, gone from here perhaps next year, or the year after. I enjoy this country, its food and nature and the job and the free time I have, as well as the interesting aspects of the people and the culture as observed as an outsider; once I feel I've become in any way part of their society it'll be time to move on I think; I feel no social pressure here and that's a liberating thing.

To each their own.
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brainfreeze



Joined: 04 Jul 2009

PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not that Korea is the only one that has this problem. There are a lot of young people in America and Canada at this moment who made poor university decisions and are in so much debt that they will never be able to pay it off. They unfortunately will be living with their parents until their 40s or 50s.

If you want to see some of these people check out jdunderground.com
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Mr. Pink



Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: China

PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

brainfreeze wrote:
Mr. Pink wrote:
redaxe wrote:
Yeah life in Korea is way easier if you're not Korean, trust me. You don't want to experience what's waiting on the other side of that invisible wall. Absolutely crushing social pressure from your family, peers, and superiors.


Agree on this one. I fight becoming Korean. Though a lot of the ways I think about things are now Korean (or Asian), such as the way I look at family. I like the aspect of Korean culture where you take care of your kids until they get married (why should we kick our kids out at 18 like in Western societies?) and I also like the idea of taking care of one's parents. Those two things just make so much sense, yet in individual Western society they aren't given a lot of thought anymore. (Funny because they used to be our norms 50 years ago...)

When I hear things like "This is Korea, you should do it the Korean way..." I say yes, but I am not Korean, so...

Even with a wife and kid, I never want to become a Korean. It is way nicer to just be a "guest" and reap those benefits.


Mr. Pink, sorry to derail the topic, but I saw in another thread that you were thinking of leaving Canada to return to Asia, because of the low pay?

Any plans on where you might head to next?


Returning to Korea at the end of the week. The reason? I am in my 30s and I do not want to sit around for a couple years on a supply list waiting for a teaching job in Canada. Canada is great, just the cost of living here is terrible if you don't have a 2 income family making decent money.
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Mr. Pink



Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: China

PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jane wrote:
Quote:
[quote="Mr. Pink]I like the aspect of Korean culture where you take care of your kids until they get married (why should we kick our kids out at 18 like in Western societies?) and I also like the idea of taking care of one's parents.


Do you still like these aspects of Korean culture after reading this article?


More Couples with Children Live off Their Parents
An increasing number of people in their 30s and 40s are still dependent on their parents for their own children's education and for living costs. Known as "kangaroo people" because they live in their parents' pouch, their numbers are growing to near 15 percent of parents in the capital, a poll suggests


http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2009/07/04/2009070400152.html


So do you think I should let a small minority of people who can't grow up change my opinion about Korea's attitude towards family? In Canada we still have people in their 30s and 40s living in their parents basement or garage. I question the accuracy of that poll. I know it is very common for Koreans to work and have their parents take care of their kids. I would want to know if that type of situation fits into the poll. I still think taking care of your kids is better than having them move out at 18.
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brainfreeze



Joined: 04 Jul 2009

PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Pink wrote:


Returning to Korea at the end of the week. The reason? I am in my 30s and I do not want to sit around for a couple years on a supply list waiting for a teaching job in Canada. Canada is great, just the cost of living here is terrible if you don't have a 2 income family making decent money.


Yeah I was curious about that, since I know plenty of people who have done teachers college (couldn't get into Canada) overseas and are now stuck on supply teachers lists.

Do you know if this is the situation all around, or just in specific provinces?
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brainfreeze



Joined: 04 Jul 2009

PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Pink wrote:
Jane wrote:
Quote:
[quote="Mr. Pink]I like the aspect of Korean culture where you take care of your kids until they get married (why should we kick our kids out at 18 like in Western societies?) and I also like the idea of taking care of one's parents.


Do you still like these aspects of Korean culture after reading this article?


More Couples with Children Live off Their Parents
An increasing number of people in their 30s and 40s are still dependent on their parents for their own children's education and for living costs. Known as "kangaroo people" because they live in their parents' pouch, their numbers are growing to near 15 percent of parents in the capital, a poll suggests


http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2009/07/04/2009070400152.html


So do you think I should let a small minority of people who can't grow up change my opinion about Korea's attitude towards family? In Canada we still have people in their 30s and 40s living in their parents basement or garage. I question the accuracy of that poll. I know it is very common for Koreans to work and have their parents take care of their kids. I would want to know if that type of situation fits into the poll. I still think taking care of your kids is better than having them move out at 18.


More then just a few now sadly. Lots of people I know made poor decisions with their undergraduate degrees (useless BAs/BScs) and have been crippled with debt. Some have defaulted on loans (I believe the national default rate is approaching 30%) and so have bad credit and very little chance of getting a house. Working minimum wage jobs they have very little chance of even being able to afford a single apartment.
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halfmanhalfbiscuit



Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Core subjects (English, maths)-no sweat. Can't so much pick and choose, but the jobs exist.

Optional specialisms, even History,both in NZ and the UK-good luck.
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Cheonmunka



Joined: 04 Jun 2004

PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

About Lee, he did this at a time when there were no permanent resident visas such as the F5 or even the F2 (for males.) I wonder that had something to do with it. Also, he earned a lot of money in Korea. Maybe he felt he was better off here than anywhere else.

But in the eyes of strangers and people who don't know him and rude pointing kids he's just another 외국사람. Maybe he's getting sick of that.

Quote:
"I was once asked by the ruling Grand National Party to run for office in the proportional representative election, representing the non-ethnic Korean population," said Lee. "However, the committee later took me off the list."


I applied for 'band membership' in a working mens band here in Bucheon and got the all clear thru the club and had my profile posted, but at the end the profile was deleted by one of the managers of the place. It ain't much fun this discrimination stuff. I was getting some positive comments too then poof, dream goes into smoke.
Opportunity was to post profile again but I lost heart. Kind of gets you down rather than gives you strength.
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EzeWong



Joined: 26 Mar 2008
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure other Asian Americans can chime in on this. Even as an Asian American, born and raise, people ask me all the time "where are you from?". I say America and they usually say "No I mean, like where are you from?". Black and white people usually don't get probed for more details like Asian Americans (they are just accepted as American). But somehow, being Asian has never made me a real American. People never think that I was born in America, they think I came from China or Japan. I've never really been accepted as American, always some kind of exotic kung fu, cat eating, foreigner.

Even Americans, a great melting pot nation, has it's issues too.

Korea will never accept a white immigrant as TRULY Korean. Nor do I think that's reasonable expectation. People judge on skin color and it's a very noticeable difference. Try the reverse, throw a Korean into Germany. That Korean is not going to become "German". Being part of the nation is just a small part of what people percieve. It's all the heritage and biological background of growing up wtih the nation.

I feel sad sometimes that people wouldn't be understanding of that. But it's just reality.
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brainfreeze



Joined: 04 Jul 2009

PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EzeWong wrote:
I feel sad sometimes that people wouldn't be understanding of that. But it's just reality.


The problem is that if you look at a lot of TV shows and the media it almost gives and idealised view of the life of immigrants in certain countries. A lot of the problems are swept under the table while the positives are broadcasted around the world. So when people face the reality vs. the propaganda they become disillusioned.
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fermentation



Joined: 22 Jun 2009

PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why would you want to be Korean anyway?

Koreans tell me all the time that no matter how hard I try, I will never be accepted as part of American society. Its funny because that's exactly what they do to foreigners who try to be Korean. They also do that to Korean-Americans in regards to their "American-ness." Its quite amusing to see Koreans tell Korean-Americans that they are not "really American."
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eamo



Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Location: Shepherd's Bush, 1964.

PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank God for the 'invisible wall'!!!

I pretty much daily remind myself how lucky I was to not be born Korean. Koreans have to put up with so much BS throughout their lives. Intense pressures and years and years wasted on futile nonsense......

..........as a foreigner in Korea, I'm exempt from all that! Woohoo!!
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