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RJjr
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Location: Turning on a Lamp
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 Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| So I guess police have to go easy on blacks or be racist. |
They should go easy on blacks when they're at home not bothering anyone.
| mises wrote: |
| That's the situation. But blacks are 7 times more likely to murder etc. So that creates unsafe cities. |
Gates was damned if he had left home and killed someone. He was damned if he stayed home and didn't hurt anyone. Either way, Crowley was going to arrest him.
| mises wrote: |
| Anyways, I strongly believe that the more diverse a society is the more unmanageable it will become. |
It's too late now. Your family and my family are already in the US and Canada, so our countries are no longer 100% Native.
| mises wrote: |
| In the United States, Blacks and Hispanics (of the 'native' variety) will never, ever, ever match Jews, whites, East Asians and South Asians in earning power and other measures of social health. The black family isn't in crises. It simply does not exist. |
Most Hispanics around here are bilingual and pay in cash while most whites are up to their eyeballs in debt and can only speak English.
A lot of black families are missing their dads, moms, sons, brothers, and sisters because whites and Jews bit off more war than our valiant people of color can chew for them. |
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Kepler
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:47 am Post subject: |
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From that letter:
"I was particularly proud to read your statement in which you identified and sympathized with black people far less privileged than yourself, who undergo similar arrest and even more suffering."
The ironic thing here is that Gates' outrage was partially due to his being a top scholar and a Harvard professor which is why he yelled, "You don't know who you're messing with!" The black police officer who was at the scene described Gates' reaction as strange. The black police officer was from a lower social class and thus probably had a hard time identifying with such outrage. |
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ManintheMiddle
Joined: 20 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:21 am Post subject: |
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RJjr noted:
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| They should go easy on blacks when they're at home not bothering anyone. |
You have no idea what really happened in this incident, do you? But feel free to post more mumbo-jumbo.
| Quote: |
| Gates was damned if he had left home and killed someone. He was damned if he stayed home and didn't hurt anyone. Either way, Crowley was going to arrest him. |
Your incisive insight leaves me almost as breathless as Gates after his tirade.
To all:
If you haven't watched the compelling CNN interview clip with Black officers of the Cambridge Police force, go here:
http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/us/2009/07/26/nr.comrade.in.arms.cnn
I think this pretty much lays the drumbeat of racist accusations to rest--as far as Crowley is concerned. Can't say the same for Gates, or Obama's bungling of the situation. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:03 am Post subject: |
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| When I heard about this, I didn't really think about race, but rather home property rights. |
I agree. If Gates were to make this a home property rights issue he would gain far more support from a broader stretch of the population.
I sided with him more from that standpoint.
I think we are starting to reach a consensus here, dare I say: Two stressed men took things a bit too far and both didn't handle the situation in a manner that would let them have a peaceful sleep that night. There was a way for both of them to diffuse the situation.
In Gates defense, yes racial profiling does occur and the cop should have just left him alone.
In Crowley's defense, not everyone who makes a point is a bigot, and Gates could have been less confrontational.
I sympathize somewhat more with Gates than Crowley, but I don't think Crowley should be reprimanded or anything like that.
It's also nice to see that most of us on this board through all of the debate are moving towards a consensus it seems, whether it is me on one side or Maninthemiddle on the other. |
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MollyBloom
Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Location: James Joyce's pants
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| Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:34 am Post subject: |
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RJjr: I totally thought your avatar was a picture of a woman's legs open..the black part a thong! I had to look twice before I realized it was a lamp!
Dear me.
It reminded me of that picture of the vase which looks like two faces:
http://www.optical-illusionist.com/illusions/rubin-vase-illusion/ |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:31 am Post subject: |
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| MollyBloom wrote: |
RJjr: I totally thought your avatar was a picture of a woman's legs open..the black part a thong! I had to look twice before I realized it was a lamp!
Dear me. |
Molly, you have a filthy, disgusting, perverted mind - but that's the only thing I like about You   |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:47 am Post subject: |
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On a lighter note:
Boston Cops Believe Your Home is Their Castle
By Christopher Hansen
Harvard Professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. was arrested at his home Thursday, in Cambridge, Massachusetts, for being discourteous to police officers that falsely accused him of breaking into his own home.
Police told this reporter that, �This uppity Black dude� had obviously broken into this nice house in a white neighborhood and replaced all the pictures of the family that actually lived there, with pictures of black people, in an attempt to fool officers.
When officers discovered that Professor Gates actually owned the home they were so surprised that they arrested Gates anyway for not using a proper tone and showing them the respect they believed they deserved because they are obvious heroes that protect the rights of Americans every day.
�Remember,� said one officer that wanted to remain anonymous, �Officers have to risk their lives dealing with obnoxious Harvard professors and other undesirables that may or may not be in their own kitchens everyday. We must be able to come into their kitchens without being invited and without a warrant to check their government issued IDs, ensure their are no outstanding arrest warrants or unpaid taxes or late library fees and most importantly that there are no white women in the house. Then if all of that checks out and these obvious anti-American Arab pro-terrorist Obama supporters treat us with proper respect then we can let them go without arresting them. But that was not the case here as this guy had the nerve to complain about his treatment.�
The Cambridge Police Chief said he would look into it but since Professor Gates had obviously raised his voice to the officers and because his officers said Gates did indeed raise his voice to them he felt that Gates would probably do a bit of time and that it would be well deserved.
The Cambridge Police Chief told this reporter, �Police must be treated like the heroes they are. Americans that do not remember this may be beaten without due process and they had better just get used to it. We must ensure that our number one priority is that officers must come home safe every night and without their egos being bruised while on duty. Police, after all, are the only people we are required to protect and serve.�
Check out the before and after pix at link |
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RJjr
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Location: Turning on a Lamp
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| Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:14 am Post subject: |
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| ManintheMiddle wrote: |
RJjr noted:
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| They should go easy on blacks when they're at home not bothering anyone. |
You have no idea what really happened in this incident, do you? But feel free to post more mumbo-jumbo. |
If Gates wasn't at home minding his own business when the cops arrived, then where was he and who was he bothering?
I'm glad I'm not the only one who had to do a double take.  The vase illusion is cool. I bought a silver coin a while back that had what looked like a princess on it and something like "At the bar after 8 beers." After turning the coin upside down, it looked like an old, old lady and said "In bed the next morning."
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Quote: |
| When I heard about this, I didn't really think about race, but rather home property rights. |
I agree. If Gates were to make this a home property rights issue he would gain far more support from a broader stretch of the population.
I sided with him more from that standpoint.
I think we are starting to reach a consensus here, dare I say: Two stressed men took things a bit too far and both didn't handle the situation in a manner that would let them have a peaceful sleep that night. There was a way for both of them to diffuse the situation.
In Gates defense, yes racial profiling does occur and the cop should have just left him alone.
In Crowley's defense, not everyone who makes a point is a bigot, and Gates could have been less confrontational. |
Well said.
They both acted immature. The thing that makes me sympathize with Gates above all else is that he obeyed the law and was taken to jail anyway by a man who is supposed to be a public servant and who is paid, in part, by the taxes Gates pays.
Whether real or imagined, I can see how blacks feel resentment when they're told they'll "never match up with whites economically or socially" or that they're "7 times more likely to be a violent criminal" and such and then a black man who is law abiding and better educated and better paid than most of the whites saying such things about blacks goes to jail on a clearly trumped up charge for nothing more than shittalking in his own doorway. |
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RJjr
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Location: Turning on a Lamp
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| Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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A Maryland attorney made some interesting points about who broke the law and who didn't.
http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/local/rodricks/blog/2009/07/a_defense_attorney_on_gatescro.html
| Dan Rodricks wrote: |
He described Prof. Gates, whom he had identified and who was then standing in his own home, to the police dispatcher as "a bit uncooperative." So? Having made the ID, what was the sergeant's purpose for being there? Was he invited? Did he have a warrant? With the identification of the "home invader" as the homeowner, his job was done and his presence unneeded as a matter of police policy, and unjustified as a matter of law. He should have left, posthaste. Prolonging the confrontation with an uncooperative, hostile, angry, loud and unpleasant individual was on him.
Certainly Prof. Gates did not need to get unpleasant, make comments about Sgt. Crowley's mother, whatever the officer claims. But this was not a relationship among equals, once the ID had been made. An uninvited guest was in a person's home, and under Maryland law failure to vacate the premises can support a charge of trespass. That IS a crime. This was Sgt. Crowley's legal obligation, I submit, and was not in any way paralleled by an obligation on the part of Prof. Gates to be civil. Prof. Gates' misbehavior is on him, but it does not amount to a crime, given the rest of the facts. |
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gangpae
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Location: Busan
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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| The prof sassed the wrong cop, and the cop did a smack down on the wrong prof. Now we are all distracted from the solutions to real problems that could help improve the lifes of millions of people, and help salve the bogus issues that divide people. The HMOs and the Republicans are reveling in their good fortune, and the disfunctionality of the American polity continues to feed the news cycle. Good job Officer Crowley, thank-you professor Gates. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Quote: |
| When I heard about this, I didn't really think about race, but rather home property rights. |
I agree. If Gates were to make this a home property rights issue he would gain far more support from a broader stretch of the population.
I sided with him more from that standpoint.
I think we are starting to reach a consensus here, dare I say: Two stressed men took things a bit too far and both didn't handle the situation in a manner that would let them have a peaceful sleep that night. There was a way for both of them to diffuse the situation.
In Gates defense, yes racial profiling does occur and the cop should have just left him alone.
In Crowley's defense, not everyone who makes a point is a bigot, and Gates could have been less confrontational.
I sympathize somewhat more with Gates than Crowley, but I don't think Crowley should be reprimanded or anything like that.
It's also nice to see that most of us on this board through all of the debate are moving towards a consensus it seems, whether it is me on one side or Maninthemiddle on the other. |
Yeah, when I look at both sides I can see merit. That being said though, I think it should have went something like this...
Crowley: Excuse me sir. There's been a 911 report of a break-in at this residence. Are you the owner of the property?
Gates: F yeah I am! Who the F are you??
Crowley: Sorry about the bother sir. There's been a history of break-ins of late. We just want to make sure you and your property are alright.
Gates: Do I look alright?? Yes, I'm F'in alright. Now get the F off of my property!
Crowley: Yes sir, and I respect that sir. If you could just please show me some ID to confirm that this is your residence, I'll be on my way.
Gates: Mother Fer. Here! Here's my ID. (shows ID). Now get the F off of my property you ^^%%$%$ **&^^
Crowley: Thank you sir. Have a good day.
Even if Gates was an arse, once it was established that Gates was the owner, the cop should have left. So long as he's not harming someone, every man (and woman) has the right to be an arse on their own property. |
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MollyBloom
Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Location: James Joyce's pants
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
| MollyBloom wrote: |
RJjr: I totally thought your avatar was a picture of a woman's legs open..the black part a thong! I had to look twice before I realized it was a lamp!
Dear me. |
Molly, you have a filthy, disgusting, perverted mind - but that's the only thing I like about You |
Heh. I do admit I kind of am a little pervy on this site lately. I don't know what's gotten into me. It all started with the purring on one thread.  |
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Kepler
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:20 am Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
Even if Gates was an arse, once it was established that Gates was the owner, the cop should have left. |
There are differing versions about what happened. According to the police report, Gates showed his Harvard University ID. Harvard University IDs don't have the person's home address on them so it would not have established that Gates was at his own residence.
Last edited by Kepler on Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:28 am; edited 2 times in total |
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lithium
Joined: 18 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:24 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
Then we have no problems the next time some ajumma calls the police on a group of foreigners for whatever it is they might be doing?
What may I ask is your reaction to those FTs who got busted for their home poker game? What happened to Prof. Gates has and will happen to FTs in Korea, and you can bet you will hear their self-righteous claims of racial-intolerance. |
Don't muddy the waters with things that are not relavant to the tpoic at hand. A racist black man showed his true colors towards a white police officer and the situation was made worse by the President. It makes one wonder if what Glen Beck said is not right. |
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Kepler
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:42 am Post subject: |
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The black police officer who was at the scene, Sgt. Leon Lashley, says he's been maligned:
�One of the major problems stemming from the events of July 16 is that I, now known as �the black sergeant�, have had my image plastered all over the internet, television and newspapers. Subsequently, I have also become known, at least to some, as an �Uncle Tom.'
"I am forced to ponder the notion that as a result of speaking the truth and coming to the defense of a friend and colleague, who just happens to be white, that I have somehow betrayed my heritage.
"Please convey my concerns to the President that Mr. Gates� actions may have caused grave and potentially irreparable harm to the struggle for racial harmony in this country and perhaps throughout the world.
"In closing, I would simply like to ask that Mr. Gates deeply reflect on the events that have unfolded since July 16 and ask himself the following questions: 'What can I do to help heal the rift caused by some of my actions?; What responsibility do I bear for what occurred on July 16, 2009?; Is there anything I can do to mitigate the damage done to the reputations of two respected Police Officers?' �
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oP7ujiJ1Sjs |
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