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International Jehovah's Witnesses
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AgentM

Joined: 07 Jun 2009
Location: British Columbia, Canada

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:54 pm Post subject:

OnTheOtherSide wrote:

I'm not an atheist.

And I think it's good to call these people out, using aggressive language. Most people walk on eggshells and sugarcoat everything about religion, so their point is never made. I think blunt honestly is what we need more than ever. There is an elephant in the room, it's time to talk about it.

Sorry.

If you want to you can waste your energy on it, it's up to you. I figured out a while ago that what I think won't change anything in terms of world views and such, so there's no sense getting worked up about most of that stuff.

xirtam316

Joined: 30 Jul 2009

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 5:04 pm Post subject: Re: Be ye not unequally yoked.

CentralCali wrote:

xirtam316: You seem to have little familiarity with the concept of opinion.

My post is not based on opinion, because it is based on fact and that fact is that those a fore mentioned cults are not in the same realm of true Christianity.

CentralCali

Joined: 17 May 2007

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 6:23 pm Post subject: Re: Be ye not unequally yoked.

xirtam316 wrote:

CentralCali wrote:

xirtam316: You seem to have little familiarity with the concept of opinion.

My post is not based on opinion, because it is based on fact

No, your post is pretty much the definition of opinion.

Quote:

and that fact is that those a fore mentioned [sic] cults are not in the same realm of true Christianity.

That's not a fact, it's an opinion.

IMHO, your tossing around the label "cult" pretty much sums up your reliance on opinion.

Captain Corea

Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:23 am Post subject: Re: International Jehovah's Witnesses

teachergirltoo wrote:

Positive. As you mentioned, blood is to be avoided completely but it is an individual's choice to adhere to that command or not. No other Jehovah's Witness can make that decision for you. Besides, any person's decisions on any matter should not be based on whether they would be disfellowshipped or not, no matter what their religion is, but rather how will their decision affect their relationship with God.

All things are an individual's choice. All people can adhear to commandments or not. But the point was that people were being disfellowshipped for it. Are not people disfellowshipped for breaking commandments?

xirtam316

Joined: 30 Jul 2009

Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:28 am Post subject: Re: Be ye not unequally yoked.

CentralCali wrote:

xirtam316 wrote:

CentralCali wrote:

xirtam316: You seem to have little familiarity with the concept of opinion.

My post is not based on opinion, because it is based on fact

No, your post is pretty much the definition of opinion.

Quote:

and that fact is that those a fore mentioned [sic] cults are not in the same realm of true Christianity.

That's not a fact, it's an opinion.

IMHO, your tossing around the label "cult" pretty much sums up your reliance on opinion.

Could you please inform me, with your obvious opinions, about how you believe that JWs, Mormons, or Roman Catholics are (as I stated) in the same realm as true Christianity?

Do not forget that you would have to understand that any 'true' JW, Mormon, or RC would never consider themselves equal with Christians either.

As for cults,wiki summarizes it saying a cohesive social group and their devotional beliefs or practices, which the surrounding population considers to be outside of mainstream cultures. The surrounding population may be as small as a neighborhood, or as large as the community of nations. They gratify curiosity about, take action against, or ignore a group, depending on its reputed similarity to cults previously reported by mass media.

Plus... Negative: Also in common or popular usage, "cult" has a negative connotation for new religious...groups.[4] Theological cults also have a negative connotation as defined by fundamentalist Christians to include both new and major religion groups.

You may not want to define the RCs as a cult, but I will tell you they are (or she is) one of the biggest anti-Christ's this world will ever see.

As for facts and opinions, by ground is based on nothing less than God's Word and years of experienced men of God, whom have walked the narrow path before me. I base none (I hope anyway) of what I say on my goodness, nor my special knowledge or wisdom, just God's Word.

My guess is that you are neither Christian or firm in your cult faith (or you are blinded to believe that those fours groups are actually united).

Please, respond responsibly.

EDIT: Actually, CentralCali, I just flipped through this thread and found that you have reacted the same way to each person who has provided the same information. You react with, "that's your opinion!" and then go right ahead and give yours.

Why don't you kneel by your bed or at least stop what you are doing right now and allow God to take inventory of your heart. And when Christ comes in you will know that your relationship with Him has begun. I am not trying to knock you, but rather point you into the only Way of righteousness.

Do you have a relationship with my heavenly Father? He could be yours, too.

Do not let the world blind you. The devil has many means.

CentralCali

Joined: 17 May 2007

Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 2:54 pm Post subject: Re: Be ye not unequally yoked.

xirtam316 wrote:

CentralCali wrote:

xirtam316 wrote:

CentralCali wrote:

xirtam316: You seem to have little familiarity with the concept of opinion.

My post is not based on opinion, because it is based on fact

No, your post is pretty much the definition of opinion.

Quote:

and that fact is that those a fore mentioned [sic] cults are not in the same realm of true Christianity.

That's not a fact, it's an opinion.

IMHO, your tossing around the label "cult" pretty much sums up your reliance on opinion.

Your thesis collapses when the following facts are presented:

I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and
In common with all other members of that church, I consider myself to be a Christian.

Other facts for you:

Members of the Roman Catholic Church also consider themselves to be Christians.
Quite a few non-Catholics consider Roman Catholics to be Christian.

Last edited by CentralCali on Tue Aug 04, 2009 3:30 pm; edited 1 time in total

CentralCali

Joined: 17 May 2007

Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 3:29 pm Post subject: Re: Be ye not unequally yoked.

xirtam316 wrote:

EDIT: Actually, CentralCali, I just flipped through this thread and found that you have reacted the same way to each person who has provided the same information. You react with, "that's your opinion!" and then go right ahead and give yours.

Care to post where I have indicated that something that is not an opinion is an opinion?

meangradin

Joined: 10 Mar 2006

Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:34 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Could you please inform me, with your obvious opinions, about how you believe that JWs, Mormons, or Roman Catholics are (as I stated) in the same realm as true Christianity?

Please do tell what constitutes a "true" Christian. Also, if you feel so inclined, could you list some of the Protestant denominations that don't make the cut.

Captain Corea

Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:45 pm Post subject:

meangradin wrote:

Quote:

Could you please inform me, with your obvious opinions, about how you believe that JWs, Mormons, or Roman Catholics are (as I stated) in the same realm as true Christianity?

Please do tell what constitutes a "true" Christian. Also, if you feel so inclined, could you list some of the Protestant denominations that don't make the cut.

No joke. All of the JWs I know call themselves Christians.

Quote:

Do not forget that you would have to understand that any 'true' JW, Mormon, or RC would never consider themselves equal with Christians either.

Where are you getting this from?

CentralCali

Joined: 17 May 2007

Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:56 pm Post subject:

Captain Corea wrote:

Quote:

Do not forget that you would have to understand that any 'true' JW, Mormon, or RC would never consider themselves equal with Christians either.

Where are you getting this from?

It's the extremist Fundamentalist version of the No true Scotsman fallacy. As my family (on my Dad's side) hails from Scotland, I do get some amusement from that.

I can't recall which fallacy it is (or is it a "debating" tactic?) that particular poster used with this bit:

Quote:

My guess is that you are neither Christian or firm in your cult faith (or you are blinded to believe that those fours groups are actually united).

I disagree with him about the targets of his prejudice, so therefore I must be one of those targets.

This little bit was quite amusing too:

Quote:

You react with, "that's your opinion!" and then go right ahead and give yours.

As I've never asserted that my personal opinion is a fact, what's the problem with posting my opinion?

teachergirltoo

Joined: 28 Oct 2006

Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:19 pm Post subject: Re: International Jehovah's Witnesses

Captain Corea wrote:

teachergirltoo wrote:

Not necessarily. We are all human and make mistakes. What is important is after a situation occurs, an individual's attitude about breaking the commandment. Does the individual really care about the commandment they broke? Was it a mistake, or was it premeditated? There is a difference in attitude between a person that breaks a commandment due a moment of fear or other feelings that may overcome him/her as a human, but really has a high respect and desire to keep all God's commands, or the other type of person that says:" I don't really see the importance of that command and I don't care what anyone thinks, and I would take blood transfusions or commit adultery over and over again." In which case they are obviously rejecting God's commands and are not interested in pure worship. Jehovah's Witnesses do not disfellowship anyone lightly. It really has to be a belligerent attitude before a step like that would be taken. Almost a "please disfellowship me" attitude. Jehovah's Witnesses believe God is merciful to the greatest extent, and therefore love and understanding come first.

Last edited by teachergirltoo on Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:28 pm; edited 1 time in total

Captain Corea

Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:23 pm Post subject: Re: International Jehovah's Witnesses

teachergirltoo wrote:

Captain Corea wrote:

teachergirltoo wrote:

Not necessarily. We are all human and make mistakes. What is important is after a situation occurs, an individual's attitude about breaking the commandment. Does the individual really care about the commandment they broke? There is a difference in attitude between a person that breaks a commandment due a moment of fear or other feelings that may overcome him/her, but really has a high respect and desire to keep all God's commands, or the other type of person that says:" I don't believe in that command and I don't care what anyone thinks, and I would take blood transfusions or commit adultery over and over again." In which case they are obviously rejecting God's commands and are not interested in pure worship. Jehovah's Witnesses do not disfellowship anyone lightly. It really has to be a belligerent attitude before a step like that would be taken. Almost a "please disfellowship me" attitude. Jehovah's Witnesses believe God is merciful to the greatest extent, and therefore love and understanding come first.

So, just so I'm clear on this...

1. JWs have never disfellowshipped someone for needing and accepting a blood transfusion?
2. JWs have never disfellowshipped someone who wanted to be part of the organization, but had committed some grave sin?

teachergirltoo

Joined: 28 Oct 2006

Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:37 pm Post subject: Re: International Jehovah's Witnesses

Captain Corea wrote:

teachergirltoo wrote:

Captain Corea wrote:

teachergirltoo wrote:

Not necessarily. We are all human and make mistakes. What is important is after a situation occurs, an individual's attitude about breaking the commandment. Does the individual really care about the commandment they broke? There is a difference in attitude between a person that breaks a commandment due a moment of fear or other feelings that may overcome him/her, but really has a high respect and desire to keep all God's commands, or the other type of person that says:" I don't believe in that command and I don't care what anyone thinks, and I would take blood transfusions or commit adultery over and over again." In which case they are obviously rejecting God's commands and are not interested in pure worship. Jehovah's Witnesses do not disfellowship anyone lightly. It really has to be a belligerent attitude before a step like that would be taken. Almost a "please disfellowship me" attitude. Jehovah's Witnesses believe God is merciful to the greatest extent, and therefore love and understanding come first.

So, just so I'm clear on this...

1. JWs have never disfellowshipped someone for needing and accepting a blood transfusion?

2. JWs have never disfellowshipped someone who wanted to be part of the organization, but had committed some grave sin?

1. As I said above each individual's situation would be different based on a variety of factors. But attitude after breaking that command, or any command, would be key if a disfellowshipping did happen,
2. King Mannasseh, and King David were guilty of murder. They were allowed to continue serving God because of their attitude and actions about what they had done. Again, it all depends on the individuals attitude and actions after. Proof is in the pudding as to how a person really feels about a situation. Just saying that you want to be part of the organization would not be enough.

Shiktang

Joined: 10 May 2009

Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:05 pm Post subject:

I was reading one Eric From's Books a while back. Can't remember which one. Might have been "On Agression". He was also the author of "The Art of Loving" which was the one of his books that was in every other students apartment when I was going to college. Any way I think it was in his book " On Aggression" that he talks about the prisoners in the concentration camps during world war 2. He said that the one group of people that kept their heads and didn't give into the horrors of the camp were the Jehovahs witnesses.

OnTheOtherSide

Joined: 29 Feb 2008

Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:10 pm Post subject:

Here's the golden question for Jehovahs witnesses. "How do you know your beliefs are the truth?" The answer might shock you......

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