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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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iggyb
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
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 Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 1:14 pm Post subject: Labor Law and Sick Days |
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I've been reading the latest Labor Standards Act, and it appears two contracts I've seen now don't follow it in terms of missing work.
Both say that your salary will be docked one day's pay if you are out without prior notice - as if you plan to be sick.
[url]
http://www.scribd.com/doc/12960127/Korean-Labor-Standards-Act-amended-in-2007[/url]
According to what I'm reading, you get one paid sick day per month worked without using one. I believe that was what the old law said too. Also, the new law specifically says that a financial penalty imposed by the employer cannot exceed half a day's pay.
At least that is how I'm reading what I've read. |
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AgentM
Joined: 07 Jun 2009
Location: British Columbia, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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| The Labor Standards Act says that contracts which violate that law are null and void to that extent, and that employers shall be governed by the Act. If your contract breaks Korean law, take it up with your Director and point it out to him/her. There's always the Labour Board if they refuse to comply. |
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andrewchon
Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Location: Back in Oz. Living in ISIS Aust.
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 3:00 pm Post subject: sick days |
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| That's an irrelevant law. In Korean you come to work unless you are buried. Then the school send you home/hospital if you're deemed too sick to continue, which is hardly ever. After that you go to hospital and doctor will give you some pills so that you can soldier on. |
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iggyb
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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I don't have an issue. I don't even have a boss at the moment. I'm reading the law as is today to see how it has changed and to be prepared in getting back into the ESL market.
I have seen two contracts so far in my job hunt, and both of them violate this rule. That's all. |
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lifeinkorea
Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Location: somewhere in China
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, so, you get sick. The contract ends, you go home or you get better and get another job.
What's the big deal? Are you wanting to control the hagwon/school to the extent that they have to give permanent employment?
Just work, if something goes wrong, cross that bridge when you get to it. All this "what if I get sick on the night off blah blah" worrying is not going to help either you or the hagwon/school. |
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romano812
Joined: 09 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 5:26 pm Post subject: my contract |
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My contract states prior notice/ permission must be given. Now I take this to mean you have to contact the employer a certain amount of time prior to the start of your shift (at least a few hours notice if possible). My contract allows for 15 sick days. However, it states if more than 7 consecutive days are taken a doctor's note is required.
I don't know how this compares to KLSA, but I've noticed a few things in my contract that do not follow KLSA rules/ regulations/ ...
I wonder if employers even know KLSA exists. |
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AgentM
Joined: 07 Jun 2009
Location: British Columbia, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 5:47 pm Post subject: Re: sick days |
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| andrewchon wrote: |
| That's an irrelevant law. |
That's stupid, it is the law, not only is it the law but it has the Labour Board/Labour Office backing it up! |
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andrewchon
Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Location: Back in Oz. Living in ISIS Aust.
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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Aren't there many laws that are/were silly, unenforceable, ignored?
e.g. settling disputes with one-to-one combat: in the law, rarely done in court of law, done everyday in the streets.
Prohibition: was in the books, great idea, unenforceable, and ignored by just about everybody.
Speed limit for cars on the road, under-age drinking, homosexual relationships, etc.
It's within your rights to have the law enforced. |
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AgentM
Joined: 07 Jun 2009
Location: British Columbia, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| andrewchon wrote: |
Aren't there many laws that are/were silly, unenforceable, ignored?
e.g. settling disputes with one-to-one combat: in the law, rarely done in court of law, done everyday in the streets.
Prohibition: was in the books, great idea, unenforceable, and ignored by just about everybody.
Speed limit for cars on the road, under-age drinking, homosexual relationships, etc.
It's within your rights to have the law enforced. |
Yes there are times when laws aren't enforced, but Korea labour law is enforced. Maybe not 100% all the time, but in Korea if your employer blatantly breaks your contract, or breaks the law, you can take them to the Labour Board. People often do that, so claiming that Korean labour law isn't enforced is false. |
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iggyb
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
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| Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 5:33 am Post subject: |
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lifeinkorea, - shut up...
why do you people even exist? What is your function? ....Just to remind us how many people have shoved their heads up their bums?
Everyone,
The Labor Laws are available for download by everyone in English. Google for Labor Standards Act. People who plan to work in the hakwon industry should read them especially.
On the frequency of their enforcement: I doubt I would go toe-to-toe with my boss over half a day's pay or even a full sick day's pay. The point is what is and isn't in the law. And you can be sure the strong Korean unions are constantly a source of headaches for large Korean businesses that try to skirt the law.
Where knowing the Labor Laws will help an expat is when they land in one of those worse places that have frequent violations of the law, and the instructor needs ammunition to add up to take to the Labor Board.
--- Lastly -- any immigrant or migrant worker in any nation should be familiar with the employment and other laws that governor the society.
The GDK --- Great Defenders of Korea --- like lifeinkorea are gidgets...
[edit] --- I think I will start calling this species of expat in Korea - Defender of the Inviolable Culture Korean....or for short............. |
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Young FRANKenstein
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Location: Castle Frankenstein (that's FRONKensteen)
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| Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:51 am Post subject: Re: Labor Law and Sick Days |
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| iggyb wrote: |
| According to what I'm reading, you get one paid sick day per month worked without using one. I believe that was what the old law said too. |
Which clause? I've never seen any in the LSA that state sick days are covered by the labor laws.
| Quote: |
| Also, the new law specifically says that a financial penalty imposed by the employer cannot exceed half a day's pay. |
If you miss the entire day's work, why shouldn't you be docked an entire day's wage? Unless you have sick days covered in your contract, you should not be entitled to pay if you did not work.
| AgentM wrote: |
| The Labor Standards Act says that contracts which violate that law are null and void |
Uh, no. If a clause violates the LSA, then THAT CLAUSE is null and void. The rest of the contract (the parts that are legal) is still in effect. |
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iggyb
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:58 am Post subject: |
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I'm checking for better references, but look at sections that talk about "leave".
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Article 57 (Monthly Leave with Pay)
(1) An employer shall allow one day�s leave with pay per month.
(2) The paid leave in accordance with paragraph (1) may be used by a worker, of his own free will, either by accumulating or dividing it within one year. |
For example, women are given a "leave" for their periods:
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Article 71 (Menstruation Leave)
An employer shall, if requested by a female worker, grant her one day�s menstruation leave per month. <Amended by Act No. 6974, Sep. 15, 2003> |
| Quote: |
| If you miss the entire day's work, why shouldn't you be docked an entire day's wage? |
You sound like a boss... 
Even in general, you are not an hourly worker - you're on salary paid monthly. Your hours are kept in order to calculate overtime. If you fail to work a minimum number of hours due to scheduling, you are not docked pay.
At least from my reading of the law, Korea is like most advanced countries where the law is more forgiving for the workers than what bosses might prefer.
I guess you could guess that the thinking behind limiting the company's ability to punish the worker for getting sick and missing work is that --- the worker is an asset to the company who deserves some protection from greed - especially when the cause of missing work is largely outside the worker's control... |
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Young FRANKenstein
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Location: Castle Frankenstein (that's FRONKensteen)
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:26 am Post subject: |
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| iggyb wrote: |
| I'm checking for better references, but look at sections that talk about "leave". |
Article 57 leave is not a sick day. It is a paid day off. It doesn't apply to most people anyway. eg. if you typically receive weekends off, you don't receive this particular leave.
Menstruation leave is a separate animal, and is not counted toward sick days (if they are in your contract at all) because they are dealt with separately, as you noted.
Sick days are not defined in the LSA. There is no provision for employers to provide any at all by law, and many (most?) don't. Sick days are a contractual issue only, not a labor law issue. That's the way it's been for the last decade. I thought maybe you had found a recent change to the LSA. You have not.
| Quote: |
| Even in general, you are not an hourly worker - you're on salary paid monthly. Your hours are kept in order to calculate overtime. If you fail to work a minimum number of hours due to scheduling, you are not docked pay. |
Sure, if the employer doesn't schedule the minimum hours, you shouldn't get docked. But when the employee takes the day off, I don't see why he should get paid (assuming no sick days provided). What's to stop me from just deciding one morning I don't feel like going to work? Yeah, I'm sick, listen to me sniffle, oh, I'm coughing too. Now give me a paid sick day (even though they are not covered by labor law).
| Quote: |
| the thinking behind limiting the company's ability to punish the worker for getting sick and missing work is that --- the worker is an asset to the company who deserves some protection from greed - especially when the cause of missing work is largely outside the worker's control... |
There is a mechanism in place already that protects the employee. The contract. Put sick days in the contract, and you're protected. Don't insist on having them before you sign, and you're pretty much at the employer's mercy.
I've insisted on sick days in my last three contracts (the last, errm, 8 years). I learned my lesson the hard way when in the contract preceding them I didn't have any in my contract, and I got sick. The labor board said tough luck because labor law didn't provide any by law. I was docked a day's wage for each day I missed work, and labor was okay with it. |
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iggyb
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Article 57 leave is not a sick day. |
I think this is technically arguable.
One day a month for period leave for women is called - leave. Not menstruation sick leave.
The provisions on the one day of leave for each full month worked is said to be used at the discretion of the worker.
It does say that the leave should not disrupt the normal functioning of the business, but it does say it is up to the worker when to take it.
I've seen similar wording (in English of course) in a contract I had working for a fair sized city in Georgia. And in fact, the "sick day" could be used as a personal day --- it was described simply as leave time - and in practice, the city was prohibited from demanding to know why you took the day off.
If people want to see that as bogus, because a person shouldn't have a paid "sick day" unless the contract or labor law specifically calls it a "sick day" - because it is unfair to the businesses to have to pay a worker for not working - fine --- I disagree - but it is a question of what the law says (or the contract).
Again, there does seem to be some ambiguity in the Korean law concerning how a "leave" day can be taken by a worker --- whether or not the leave an be taken fully at will or not...
...I imagine it is like that so the Labor Boards can make the judgment based on individual cases if they are brought before it by a worker.
As for how it actually works day to day in Korea, that isn't totally dependent on what the law says. As far as in the ESL industry is concerned, the majority of workers have no idea what the law says...
...I would like to know what it is like for unionized workers in Korea's industries....
I think in most industrialized nations, the labor laws are more forgiving of the human condition than you are. |
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iggyb
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| There is a mechanism in place already |
We're getting down to quibbling mostly --- but - I'd say the reason why societies have felt the need to put such provisions into law is that --- they didn't feel businesses were being fair enough in their contracts. |
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