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ratslash

Joined: 08 May 2003
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Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:52 am Post subject: give your students a korean-english dictionary... |
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and watch the bewildered looks!!!
has anyone else found this? that korean kids can't use a dictionary? i've witnessed kids flick through the dictionary for minutes just trying to find the intial starting symbol! |
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tomato

Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
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Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2004 4:12 am Post subject: |
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No, but I've noticed that they're not familiar with the typewriter keyboard.
When a child uses a Korean word which I can't understand, I ask the child to enter that word on my ���� ����. They have to hunt for the right keys.
Then they try to enter the entire sentence or the entire question.
So I have to explain to them that the ���� ���� only takes one word at a time. |
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sadsac
Joined: 22 Dec 2003 Location: Gwangwang
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Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2004 5:20 am Post subject: |
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I only let my kids use an English dictionary. It takes a while for them to begin to understand its function. I find that the comparative definitions with a Korean/English dictionary can be confusing. |
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ulsanchris
Joined: 19 Jun 2003 Location: take a wild guess
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Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2004 5:21 am Post subject: |
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I"ve had that problem tomato. always leaves me a bit bewildered. |
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Son Deureo!
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
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Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 12:58 am Post subject: |
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sadsac wrote: |
I only let my kids use an English dictionary. It takes a while for them to begin to understand its function. I find that the comparative definitions with a Korean/English dictionary can be confusing. |
I don't know what level of students you teach, but with most elementary and middle school students I've dealt with giving them an English-English dictionary would just be a waste of time. They look up one word they don't know only to find a series of words that they still don't know.
Korean-English dictionaries have their place, it's just bad to rely on them too heavily.
Ratslash, one reason your students may be having trouble is that South Korea has three different conventions for "alphabetical" order in hangeul. I also see adults struggling with finding words in a paper Korean-English dictionary. Why the Starcraft Generation can't use a keyboard, though, is beyond me. |
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OiGirl

Joined: 23 Jan 2003 Location: Hoke-y-gun
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Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 3:42 am Post subject: |
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Son Deureo! wrote: |
Ratslash, one reason your students may be having trouble is that South Korea has three different conventions for "alphabetical" order in hangeul. I also see adults struggling with finding words in a paper Korean-English dictionary. |
I have never heard that before. What are the three conventions? I only know ga, na, da, ra, ma, ba...and I don't remember after that which makes it hard to look things up in the dictionary. |
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Son Deureo!
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
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Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 7:22 am Post subject: |
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OiGirl wrote: |
Son Deureo! wrote: |
Ratslash, one reason your students may be having trouble is that South Korea has three different conventions for "alphabetical" order in hangeul. I also see adults struggling with finding words in a paper Korean-English dictionary. |
I have never heard that before. What are the three conventions? I only know ga, na, da, ra, ma, ba...and I don't remember after that which makes it hard to look things up in the dictionary. |
Unfortunately, I gave away the textbook (Beginning Korean by Ross King, a great beginners book) that listed all four of the different possibilities, so this is from memory and incomplete. The basic order of the consonants (ga na da...) and vowels (a ya aw yaw...) doesn't change. What can vary is whether they intersperse doubling consonants with their singular cousins (�� vs. ��), and there are differences in where the complex vowels (��, ��, ��, etc.) go. |
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schwa
Joined: 18 Jan 2003 Location: Yap
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Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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Is there maybe a different take on dictionary use in general? All through my schooling I was required to own one & I've kept a good dictionary near at hand ever since. Use it frequently.
Koreans in my experience regard them simply as translation tools. I teach a lot of teachers & surveyed them once about dictionaries. None of them owned a Korean/Korean dictionary. One commented: "Why would I need that? I already know the language." |
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jajdude
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
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Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2004 6:53 am Post subject: |
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The kids really need dictionaries I think, E-K especially, and K-E. But many elementary students are not used to them. A few have them in class. I have one in class. Some kids have trouble finding English words because they have to think through the alphabet for the letters. Let's see, "praise" means... ok I have "P", now where is "R"..... |
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ffl007
Joined: 01 Nov 2003
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Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2004 7:08 am Post subject: |
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That is the worst thing you could do. Give'em an English-English dictionary, and American English at that. |
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jajdude
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
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Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2004 8:46 am Post subject: |
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Sorry,
Got to agree with SOn Deureo! When they are quite basic, what's the point of giving them a word to look up in an English only dictionary, so they can find just more words they don't know? "Praise" means "to compliment" for example---- er, compliment means... "to give a generous remark"... er, "generous" and "remark" mean.....  |
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tomato

Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
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Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2004 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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Here you go, Oigirl.
I think this is what Son Deurero was referring to:
On page 33 of Elementary Korean by Ross King and Jae-Hoon Yeon, it says:
There are three variations on the South Korean ordering:
1. Ignore double consonants except where entries are otherwise the same.
2. Ignore double consonants except where entries are otherwise the same, but keep a difference for final double consonants analogous to that of the singlets:
k �� kk �� ks �� n �� nch ��
l �� lk �� lm �� lp �� ls ��
lth �� lph �� lh �� p �� ps ��
s �� ss ��
3. Recognize double consonants both initially and finally, making separate places for the initial double consonants (as in parentheses on the preceding page), and keeping the final double consonants in the order shown in item two.
On page 31:
Korean dictionaries eomploy a bewildering variety of han'gul alphabetizations. However, they can be divided into two broad types. The first is most common in South Korea, the second is official in North Korea. The South Korean dictionaries imbed all the vowel signs under the letter ��; whereas the North Korean dictionaries relegate the letter �� in its zero reading (i.e., preceding vowels) to the back of the dictionary.
Again on page 33:
In North Korea, the doubled consonants and all the vowel signs are placed at the back of the dictionary.
Shall we take a trip to North Korea and buy a dictionary? |
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OiGirl

Joined: 23 Jan 2003 Location: Hoke-y-gun
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Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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I have taught my little ones (Kindergarten through 2nd) to use a picture dictionary. They don't have alphabetization skills anyway, and it allows them to write without constantly asking me words in their first language or asking me how to spell words. It's part of a gradual process of scaffolding information and leading students to find ways to help themselves. I'm careful to always refer to the picture dictionaries as "dictionaries," so I can try to transfer their enthusiasm for these word books to the "real thing" down the road. |
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ajuma

Joined: 18 Feb 2003 Location: Anywere but Seoul!!
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Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:04 am Post subject: |
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One of the problems with a Korean-English dictionary is that the definition isn't always correct. I KNOW that "hangover" is wrong...as is the definition for "juvenile"!!! |
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