Korean Job Discussion Forums

[raewon]

Can someone help with the following question:

The wild animal never leaves her newborn, not even (to find/finding) something to eat.

I'd choose "to find" as the answer, but a student wants to know why
"finding" is incorrect. Michael Swan's Basic English Usage offers
a very clear explanation on meaning differences that occur when
using -ing form/infinitive, but unfortunately "find" isn't included.

In the above example, I think "to find" would be "with the intent of finding", while "not even finding something to eat" would imply that the animal had already looked for food and was returning empty handed.

What do you think? Thanks a lot!

[lifeinkorea]

to find

We say "looking for" when we use -ing. We might say something when researching like, "We are finding that ____ is formed......", but that carries a different meaning.

Finding is the completion of some search, while looking is the process itself. So it seems obvious based on definition.

"is not finding" or "has not found" seem to be more likely used with the word "find".

[yawarakaijin]

I believe what you are looking at is what we call a STATIVE verb. Stative verbs are basically non-action verbs and therefore are never put in an ING form.

It can be a little tricky sometimes as we have many idiomatic ways to use verbs.


I am finding my keys. Wrong obviously. Plus we would normally say "am looking for" anyways, but you get the idea.

I am finding this difficult. This is ok because we are not actually "finding" it difficult but are EXPERIENCING difficulty.

Infinitves and gerunds are tricky. Throw in the usage rules with stative verbs and things can get murky but I believe that simply telling your student that FIND is a stative verb should be enough.

[edwardcatflap]

The question here is whether to use the gerund or infinitive isn't it, not about stative v action verbs. The answer is 'to find' because the sentence explains the purpose of the action in the same way as you would say 'I went to the shops to buy some bread'. This is sometimes called the infinitive of purpose or reason

[yawarakaijin]

Of course the basic question is whether or not to use a gernund or an infinitive. You are wrong however if you think that the infinitive is ONLY used to indicate purpose. I was just trying to give a simple reason why FINDING would be the wrong answer in this case.


1.) Yes. Infinitives are often used to indicate purpose. Bit's not so simple.
example: I went to buy a bag of chips.
explanation: Why did you go? In order to buy some chips.

If you were to stick to this explanation solely you are setting up some students for possible confusion.

2.) Let's take a look at the following example and you will see how the
earlier explanation falls short.

Example: I forgot to lock the door.
Explanation: Why did you forget? In order to lock the door.

You see where using that strict interpretation falls short?

3.) I find the easiest way to explain the use of gerunds and infinitives is as follows. And even this rule gets messed up when forced to take into consideration phrasal verbs or stative/non-stative verbs.


In many instances when chosing between a gerund and infinitive you simply need to imagine which "verb" takes place.

Infinitive usually happen 2nd while the gerund usually happens 1st.

I want to see you this weekend. First I want. 2nd I will see.
I hope to meet you later on. Now I hope. I will meet you later.

I enjoyed playing soccer with your friends. 1st we played then I enjoyed. The time frame is short but you would admit that first you have to play before you can say you enjoy.

I remember fishing with my father as a child. A long time ago we fished *1st* and now I remember it.

You see how it works?

There are however situation when these rules break down. Primarily, as I was trying to explain earlier, when using non-action verbs or phrasal verbs.


Easist example. I look forward to seeing you.
Look forward to being logically the first verb to happen. However if we were to follow the general rule we would be forced to come up with something like..............I look forward to to see you. See how we have to bend the rules to make it work.

Now as for non-action verbs.

Ha! I misspoke! Long day. My apologies LOL

[The Cosmic Hum]