Korean Job Discussion Forums

[World Traveler]

[curlyhoward]

Yes!

[Real Reality]

Late pay... worth the wait?
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=37989

Discrimination persists as foreign population grows
By Kim Soe-jung, JoongAng Daily (September 3, 2007)
http://joongangdaily.joins.com/article/view.asp?aid=2880037

UN panel faults Korean emphasis on homogeneity
Discrimination against foreigners found widespread
By Lee Eun-ju, JoongAng Ilbo (August 20, 2007)
http://joongangdaily.joins.com/article/view.asp?aid=2879475

Foreigners' Rights Denied Even After Death
Chosun Ilbo (February 13, 2007)
by Chun Hyun-seok, from the Chosun Ilbo's National/Society Desk.
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200702/200702130032.html

Amnesty slams treatment of foreign workers
by Ser Myo-ja, JoongAng Daily (August 18, 2006)
http://joongangdaily.joins.com/article/view.asp?aid=2800450

Expats cite language problems, discrimination
By Moon So-young, JoongAng Daily (January 30, 2007)
http://joongangdaily.joins.com/article/view.asp?aid=2871863

Most Foreign Firms Find Korea Less Than Friendly
Cho Hyeong-rae, Chosun Ilbo (April 24, 2005)
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200504/200504240010.html

Ex-pats Describe Korea's Culture of Corruption
by Kim Hong-jin, Chosun Ilbo (December 16, 2004)
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200412/200412160027.html

[Suwon4AGT]

Add me to the list of no tax/pension/health insurance. I'm going on close to 7 months. After I receive my next paycheck, I will be financially secure enough to begin fighting for it.

Personally, I'd rather not have to deal with the hassle. But, knowing my luck, this thing will come back to bite me right at the end of the contract. I can see it now. The direktor trying to screw me out of my severance bonus, citing the need to pay taxes without ever doing so.

[PRagic]

Job 1: Paid on time, provided apartment according to agreement. Apartment in crap part of town WAY up a mountain and was, come to find out, pretty much an investment for the company that needed to be lived in before it could be flipped. Live and learn.

Employer tried to get out of paying for unused sick days. After all native speakers complained, he finally gave in and paid up.

Several problems with housing after the original apartments were sold. I was out by then.

Part of the Hakwon Price Fixing Cooperative: wouldn't budge an inch on salary when contract renewal came up. Again, live, learn, and leave. To this employer's defense, at least everyone was paid on time. Sad, but this is often used as a 'plus' when discussing Korean employers.

Job 2: Our of the frying pan and into the fire. Primarily a publishing job with one or two classes to teach.

Bloated egomaniac boss with inept brother-in-law running the teaching end of the business.

Balked at finding apartment and stuck me in a yogwon across the street from the company for 2 weeks. I found a place, then told them that if they didn't pay, I'd walk. They paid. Was often paid late. No pay, no work. They paid. Very stressful time, but while it lasted, I was making 50% over my previous job, was living in a nicer place, and was using Korean more than ever. Learn as you go. Look on the bright side. Build networks.

Bright side ended when company went belly up. We were given a couple of weeks notice and all bonuses were cancelled. A Kyopo friend took them to court and won everything coming to him, and even managed to collect after getting leins slapped on the owner's property! Live, learn, and look for another job.

Job 3: Was a full time grad student by now, so worked as independent contractor teaching a couple of hours a night. Paid by percentage based on student enrollement. Increased hours during summer and winter break. Gotta pay if you want to dance with the devil. Employer was cool about supporting the grad school effort. Tried to push for 'more professional dedication at work' (e.g. more hours to generate more for the company...professional teacher...go, go, go schtick) but didn't buy into it. Did my job, got through grad school, and moved on debt free with money in the bank.

Job 4: First university job. Insane boss, loopy department, but had some friends there and met more along the way. Those were the days when contracts were individually negotiated, and I made the most of it. Higher pay than most university profs getting now (that was over 10 years ago), free housing, and fully paid vacations. Met some of my best friends in Asia at that job.

Once the lunatic boss got bounced, the place normaled out and things got enjoyable. Typical of university programs, though, they crammed too many students into each class. Good place to train up, though, and a frank introduction pertaining to student perceptions of foreign English teachers.

Housing was ad hoc (find out what places university owns, track down the key, and move in). Always paid on time.

Back to the US to study...

Job 5: Small university in Seoul. Got the job on a last-minute call when I found out I could stay in Korea and do my dissertation. Called this one wrong from the get-go.

Department Chair OK, but scheduling was a nightmare. Insisted on extra classes from all teachers to skate having to hire extra personnel. BIG warning sign. Housing run by a-hole xenophobes. Turned out that housing for foreigners was all condemned and on the 'to-be-torn-down-in-near-future' list. Got paid on time, but department admitted that they didn't trust foreign teachers and scheduled classes so that we'd have to be on campus as much as possible. Terrible work atmosphere, and when Department Chair changed, it all went even more downhill. Was unable to get much done on dissertation.

Had a problem resigning from that position after one year, but got out and got paid. Live and learn...the university saga continues. At least I met a couple of great people there.

Job 5: Wrapping up Ph.D. dissertation at this time. Was a dream job to begin with; great scheds, supportive of study and research efforts, several long-term teachers, professional boss and Korean staff, cream of the crop foreign ESL staff and students. Thought I could just finish out my teaching days there. Again, some of my best friends in Korea are people I met on that job. Salary increases, fully paid vacations, university sub. housing...BUT THEN....

The rug gets pulled out from everyones' feet: salary levels reset to levels seen 10 years prior, term limits introduced, on-campus housing prices skyrocket. The department (college/university) taken to labour board at least twice when I was there over pay and severance issues. University lost every time. Unversity and departmental admin changes spell negative ramifications for ESL work there. Finished dissertation, met some great people, finished up my contract, and moved on.

Jobs 6 and 7: Tenure track positions in non-ESL related dicipline. Night and day difference in pay, support, consistency, benefits/perks, departmental input, and student attitudes...right across the board.

So aside from the public school route, which wasn't available when I started out here, I've pretty much run the course. What have I learned?

1) Make and keep friends over the years. They're worth their weight in gold.

2) There really is a hierarchy here, and hakwon teachers are on the low end of the educational totem pole. Deal with it. Learn from any experience you have here, good or bad. Don't come in with the idea that you're negotiating a multi-million dollar deal. You're an employee and company investment/asset (or potential liablity). You're easily replacable, and they know that BEd and MA holders are just passing through. They're in no hurry to bend over backwards to keep you.

3) Avoid 'mom and pop' or small start-up hakwons for your first year. I always recommend larger chains in larger cities for newbies. Why risk it? How many of the major complains on this board stem from jobs with new and/or small hakwons? 90% or more? You can get here, get the lay of the land, and move around after you know who's who and what's what.

4) Choose your battles. No, you don't want to bend over and take it time and time again, and, no, you don't want to be used. However, some things here are done differently, and flexibility is considered a personality plus as is knowing one's place in the hierarchy. Stick to your guns on issues that directly interfere with basic principles: decent housing, work hours, and pay, for examples. Going on 'mandatory fun outings'? Roll with it.

5) Continue to build your skill set. Many people I've met here over the years demand more and more from their employers, but bring very little to the table other than the fact that they've taught here X number of years. Do related work in writing or editing, get additional certifications and training, or increase your degree level.

6) For university ESL jobs: Even after you have experience, and even after you have your MA, don't expect your opinion to be counted or considered to any extent. Back to rule 1: It's a hierarchy, and at a university, you're not even on the hierarchy radar. Much will depend on your immediate supervisor, and those change. 'New Ph.D.s' have to know their place as well, and that place is not to attempt major changes in a semester or two or to force one's opionion on senior staff.

7) Always be conscious about building face for others and how you deal with situations in which face can be potentially lost. There is a fine line between arse kissing and 'good mood'/face building. Learn it. Put it into practice. Avoid talking about your accomplishments and your input into any success; let others do that for you and you'll look better.

For what it's worth, there it is. More might come to mind if I think about it, but usually off the cuff is pretty straight up stuff.

[cherrycoke]

i checked with my tax office my employer isnt paying any taxes and not paying my full pension amount... my apartment has roaches, i complained nothing is getting done. abuse..

[cj1976]

For me, the exploitation and sytematic abuse is simply relentless. Since I've been in Korea I've had to endure horrific treatment, such as:
- Being forced to fly economy class.
- Not having satellite TV, a gas oven or bidet installed in my apartment.
- Being served Korean food everyday at work instead of tacos or burgers.
- People speaking Korean to me instead of English.

It's been a nightmare, I can tell you.

[xingyiman]

Yeah, Ive suffered some mistreatment over the years from my various korean employers. And I've also suffered a considerable amount of abuse and mistreatment from my western employers as well. I'm in a pretty good job now and I'm happy. I will state again that I fimrly believe that most expats are responisble for a large portion of their discomfort here and most of that stems from a lack of knowledge regarding Korean culture and etiquette.

[CeleryMan]

Abused or exploited?? Folks welcome to Capitalism.

[Ukon]

[Fishead soup]

I was Exploited and now I'm officially a member of the

THE EXPLOITED BARMY ARMY
OI OI OI

[ardentis]

I've been refused overtime and been blackmailed into accepting crappy work conditions. And I work in a PS.

[yingwenlaoshi]

[Scouse Mouse]

My first job I was underpaid for overtime worked. They tried to reduce my 20,000w per hour down to aroun 14,000 after I had worked it. I argued and played at being a dick until they paid most (but not all of it).

They also tried to charge me 80,000 for attending a meeting another school. Yes. Charge ME.

In my second year, when I was legitimately ill, they called my new wife and screamed abuse at her because I was off sick. When I caused merry hell for them for doing this, they tried to get me to sign a contract amendment to work free overtime both before and after school - 8 hours per week for 2 months - to compensate them for taking 2 out of my contracted 15 sick days.

I then quit working for GEPIK and started working hagwons. I've not had any problems since I made that decision

[cherrycoke]