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Epicurus
Joined: 18 Jun 2009
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 Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 6:15 am Post subject: |
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| kabrams wrote: |
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therein lies the rubs. Perhaps in a perfect world, there should be complete equivalence. I for one, don't give a rat's behind what a person does behind one's walls...but yes.. I am more uncomfortable with flagrant displays of public affection among gays than straights..
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At least you're honest.
But I dare say people would have less of a problem if I kissed my girlfriend in a bar than if a man kissed his boyfriend.
Double standards, and all. |
true, but unlike many men, I don't really get 'turned on' by lesbians and actually really flagrant PDO's would make me uncomfortable as well.
(to a certain degreethough obviously less, same holds true with hetero pdo's)
if you can honestly sit there and tell me you've conditioned yourself to accept a tonsil licking among gays, especially men, the same way when you see hetero couple doing it, my hat's off to you.
Call it cultural conditioning (obviously this is basically why) , call it what you want.. but that's a "goal", I'll probably never approach. |
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Reise-ohne-Ende
Joined: 07 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:44 am Post subject: |
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| the only problem with that attempt is that 85-90% of the general population is straight and many are "uncomfortable" with overt acting out of the other 10-15% (perhaps they shouldn't be, but they are) |
True. But there are also a lot of people who are "uncomfortable" with interracial relationships. Of course, this number has declined as interracial relationships become more and more accepted (I'm speaking about the US, btw).
The only way to fix these issues is to confront them head on.
Thrive in adversity! Challenge yourself!! It feels good.  |
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kabrams
Joined: 15 Mar 2008
Location: your Dad's house
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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if you can honestly sit there and tell me you've conditioned yourself to accept a tonsil licking among gays, especially men, the same way when you see hetero couple doing it, my hat's off to you.
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Well, seeing as I'm gay, I don't think I've had to condition myself to anything, lol.
I rarely if ever talk about sex in mixed company, and when I do, it's because some straight male guy has assumed that I'm interested in him and has turned his "flirt mode" to level 11. Or I'm with a younger straight woman who is flirting with the other guys by being sexually explicit.
I guess I'm more offended when men just assume I'd be interested, and the way to signal that they're interested is to talk about their #$%*.
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Reise-ohne-Ende
Joined: 07 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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Personally, not that it matters but...
I find "tonsil licking" among men to be unbelievably sexy.
I have no gender identity qualms, but...sometimes I wish I were a boy, just so I could make out with other gay boys. |
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Epicurus
Joined: 18 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 7:39 am Post subject: |
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| Reise-ohne-Ende wrote: |
Personally, not that it matters but...
I find "tonsil licking" among men to be unbelievably sexy.
I have no gender identity qualms, but...sometimes I wish I were a boy, just so I could make out with other gay boys. |
to each their own.
Find me a straight male who does, or is perfectly comfortable around it, even if he's perfectly accepting of homosexuals around him.
cultural upbringing and conditioning?
perhaps. probably.
the interracial comparison in my mind isn't the same.
why you ask?
because in nature a black hyena can get it on with a white hyena and no other hyena will blink. (if they could blink and think about such things)
human racism isn't based on nature.. just ignorance.
Whereas I could make an argument that discomfort around openly homosexual behavior is far more "natural".
(which isn't to say I would prohibit it on the basis of it being against "nature", because even in nature one finds examples of asexual reproduction for e.g. and I think they even found some gay coupings.. though I'm not sure about that )
but to COMPLETELY equate "natural" behavior by 90% of the species to "different" behavior by 10% of said species is intellectual stretching to the extreme.
but I'll give you points for the effort |
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isthisreally
Joined: 01 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:08 am Post subject: |
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Your foreign coteachers won't care at all, but like everyone said don't tell the Koreans.
You don't have to hide anything though, other than those words. You can dress and act however you want and they're not going to pick up on anything. As long as you're not making out with someone in public. |
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Reise-ohne-Ende
Joined: 07 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:09 am Post subject: |
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| because in nature a black hyena can get it on with a white hyena and no other hyena will blink. |
Lol, in nature, two male hyenas can (and do) get it on and no one will blink either.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IE0e0hCb7ME
Warning...animal humping.
To be fair, it's often a sign of dominance, and it's difficult to tell when it's just for pleasure. But two male penguins, for example, will raise an "egg" together either by stealing someone else's egg, or using a rock.
Annnyway, you are right that many straight males, especially in western cultures, are uncomfortable around homosexuality, even if they are not politically homophobic. I really think this is a cultural thing and not a biological thing, though.
Remember, in classical cultures, homosexual pederasty was the norm.
Not so unusual even in modern times. Hindi proverb (from the Kama Sutra): "Women for breeding, boys for pleasure, but melons for sheer delight." |
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Epicurus
Joined: 18 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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indeed, the Greeks loved their little boys.. and even some Romans though homosexuality was definitely frowned upon in Roman culture.
I'd be very curious how an adopted grown child of a gay couple feels about this and whether he/she thinks their own sexual orientation has been in any way infuenced by what they saw around them in their own home. |
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jgrant85
Joined: 31 May 2009
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| Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:22 am Post subject: |
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| Epicurus wrote: |
| because in nature a black hyena can get it on with a white hyena and no other hyena will blink. (if they could blink and think about such things) |
Being gay is a sexual orientation, "black" and "white" isn't. I'm just curious how you can use this as an example to support your belief, that's all. I'm not trying to bash anyone.
Last edited by jgrant85 on Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:21 am; edited 1 time in total |
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jimbob1980
Joined: 13 May 2009
Location: Manchester, UK
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| Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:01 am Post subject: |
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| Am hoping to be in Korea, and must say found all the advice very usefull!! Glad someone else asked the question lol!!! |
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Carla
Joined: 21 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 5:17 am Post subject: |
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| Epicurus wrote: |
| I'd be very curious how an adopted grown child of a gay couple feels about this and whether he/she thinks their own sexual orientation has been in any way infuenced by what they saw around them in their own home. |
I am sure you're not saying that being around gay people makes children gay when they grow up, but what you said brought that to mind. I have heard is as the #2 reason gays and lesbians shouldn't be allowed to adopt. The #1 reason is that all gays and lesbians are perverts and are only trying to get the children for bad things, but that's a whole new level of stupid that we're not talking about this thread.
The way I look at it is this. If your parents, biological or adopted, could influence your sexuality, why are there gay people? Straight people give birth to gay people. Straight people raise gay people. Personally, I've never heard of any gays men or lesbians raising a child that turned out gay, but I'm sure there are some.
The only thing I can say Epi, is that from the ones I have met, I have never came across any that said it affected them in any way. And as for the adopted ones (I've known fewer adopted than biological ones) they seemed just happy they had someone who loved them and wanted to be their parents. |
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oldenew
Joined: 25 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 5:52 am Post subject: |
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| I wouldn't be comfortable with a gay man teaching my children. Perhaps it's the military life I lead. I do believe it is a genetic issue, not a choice issue, but having said that I still consider it at least somewhat deviant. I have known several gay men in my life and if they are any sort of litmus test of the gay population, it is my opinion that far too large a percentage of gay men are closet pedophiles and it is strictly acute fear of being caught that keeps them on the straight and narrow. No pun intended. |
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jimbob1980
Joined: 13 May 2009
Location: Manchester, UK
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| Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:26 am Post subject: |
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| oldenew wrote: |
| I wouldn't be comfortable with a gay man teaching my children. Perhaps it's the military life I lead. I do believe it is a genetic issue, not a choice issue, but having said that I still consider it at least somewhat deviant. I have known several gay men in my life and if they are any sort of litmus test of the gay population, it is my opinion that far too large a percentage of gay men are closet pedophiles and it is strictly acute fear of being caught that keeps them on the straight and narrow. No pun intended. |
I am pretty astounded that someone would leave a post like this, in this day and age... |
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Epicurus
Joined: 18 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 7:00 am Post subject: |
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| Carla wrote: |
| Epicurus wrote: |
| I'd be very curious how an adopted grown child of a gay couple feels about this and whether he/she thinks their own sexual orientation has been in any way infuenced by what they saw around them in their own home. |
I am sure you're not saying that being around gay people makes children gay when they grow up, but what you said brought that to mind. I have heard is as the #2 reason gays and lesbians shouldn't be allowed to adopt. The #1 reason is that all gays and lesbians are perverts and are only trying to get the children for bad things, but that's a whole new level of stupid that we're not talking about this thread.
The way I look at it is this. If your parents, biological or adopted, could influence your sexuality, why are there gay people? Straight people give birth to gay people. Straight people raise gay people. Personally, I've never heard of any gays men or lesbians raising a child that turned out gay, but I'm sure there are some.
The only thing I can say Epi, is that from the ones I have met, I have never came across any that said it affected them in any way. And as for the adopted ones (I've known fewer adopted than biological ones) they seemed just happy they had someone who loved them and wanted to be their parents. |
no I'm not saying that. The only reason I bring it up is because is MOST of the usual "background/upbringing/environment" vs "genetics" debates.. I favor the former... and your Vietnamese "frame" response to my comment about Asian "frames" basically resulting more from their diet than their "genetics" is proof positive
However.. in case of sexuality.. I think that one is simply too "innate" for environment to commandeer. As Sam Kinison once said - how can a man look at another man's hairy ass and find love".
I find it hard to imagine that such a sentiment could arise from anything but a genetic predisposition - but I'd be lying if I told you I was sure of this 100%. (that said I'm probably about 90+% sure)
I'm more curious about gay parent's kids views on sexuality actually, rather than whether they are straight or gay... extending to things I personally really have problems digesting.. like transsexualism, etc.
jgrant I'm not sure what "belief" you think I am espousing. All I said was that I don't believe non acceptance or discomfort of homosexuality can be put on the same exact level as interracial relationships. There is clearly a big line in the sand that is crossed once we go "gay", much much bigger than the "color line".
and re a gay man teaching my kid - I wouldn't have any issues with it whatsoever. Preferably not a phys ed teacher though. I want those guys to be very adjosshi like old school types etc. |
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Carla
Joined: 21 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| Epicurus wrote: |
no I'm not saying that. The only reason I bring it up is because is MOST of the usual "background/upbringing/environment" vs "genetics" debates.. I favor the former... and your Vietnamese "frame" response to my comment about Asian "frames" basically resulting more from their diet than their "genetics" is proof positive
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Oh, don't get me wrong. When I said "I'm sure" it wasn't in the "Oh no you didn't just say what I think you said" way, it was in the "I know from your posting history that you aren't that stupid" way. The written word unfortunately is not as accurate in expressing our feelings as we would like.
Yes, a lot of stuff is more genetics. Even with the Vietnamese argument, all things being the same, I'm sure that white/black Americans would be bigger on average. I was just speaking about comparing apples to apples, I have no doubt there is a genetic debate about it. I was having a conversation with a Korean guy 2 weeks ago asking why white people are often bigger than Korean guys. I pointed at two women, both slender. One had big hips, one had tiny hips. I pointed and asked him, who would most Korean guys prefer. He pointed to the tiny girl. I told him that's the reason. Your sons inherit half their dna from their mother. Small women have small sons. I pointed out that in the Wild West, women were chosen for wives based on large hips that would produce "a heap of healthy chillin's." Our men got bigger, but so did our women. Asian girls have smaller frames as it is, but the diet leads it to be smaller than it should.
As for the gay debate, they have scientific evidence that it's usually genetic. During development of the brain, different chemicals are released at different times for different sexes. Usually, with gay men, something doesn't get released at the right time. If it's anyone's fault, I guess you could say God did it. (That's a whole nother discussion~) Anyway, I totally agree it's genetic.
| Epicurus wrote: |
However.. in case of sexuality.. I think that one is simply too "innate" for environment to commandeer. As Sam Kinison once said - how can a man look at another man's hairy ass and find love".
I find it hard to imagine that such a sentiment could arise from anything but a genetic predisposition - but I'd be lying if I told you I was sure of this 100%. (that said I'm probably about 90+% sure) |
I often ask lesbians about the boob thing. I don't get it, lol.
| Epicurus wrote: |
| I'm more curious about gay parent's kids views on sexuality actually, rather than whether they are straight or gay... extending to things I personally really have problems digesting.. like transsexualism, etc. |
Ahhhh, I see. |
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