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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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 Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:47 am Post subject: National Parks, our BEST idea? I don't think so. |
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All due respect to Ken Burns, but our BEST, all-time best idea was the idea of carrying guns to public meetings to discuss national issues. What better way to intimidate anyone who disagrees with you? Good for both domestic and international issues. It's time-honored, although Wild Bill and Wyatt may well have disagreed.
Here's a peek at Burns' socialistic propaganda:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#33013322
It's shameful, really. The idea of all of us owning pieces of public land so we all can enjoy it. Socialistic to the max. We oughta sell all of it off to the Donald. HE would know what to do with all that land. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:54 am Post subject: |
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| Actually, we should sell off the public lands. Because we have a great deal of debt, and its wrong to pass it off to our children, whether it be in the form of inflation (creating money) or interest. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 6:05 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| Actually, we should sell off the public lands. Because we have a great deal of debt, and its wrong to pass it off to our children, whether it be in the form of inflation (creating money) or interest. |
Sell it all off to whom? The only people who have any money these days are the criminals on Wall street who've stolen it all (the rest of us are bankrupt).
I say we reject the debt, and abolish the Fed. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:33 am Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| Actually, we should sell off the public lands. Because we have a great deal of debt, and its wrong to pass it off to our children, whether it be in the form of inflation (creating money) or interest. |
Sell it all off to whom? The only people who have any money these days are the criminals on Wall street who've stolen it all (the rest of us are bankrupt).
I say we reject the debt, and abolish the Fed. |
This is what should be done, and eventually will have to be done. The US government will fall and it will default on $99 trillion in debt. There is no way that the US can ever pay this amount. This is the actual current value of all the promises that the US owes. That is debt as legally defined by the government itself. If the government were a business, its executives would be in jail. It's a bigger fraud than Madoff or Enron - more than 1000 times bigger.
In addition, we should privatize all government owned property. The government has a terrible record of managing it, cannot satisfy the competing interests that want to use it, and the land and environment suffer from the politicization of land management.
Privatization could mean setting up private park corporations that would own the land, with every US citizen being given a share and electing the board of directors. Each citizen owner would have the option of selling or holding his share.
Other lands, rivers, lakes etc could be spun off as citizen owned enterprises or sold to similar organizations such as the Nature Conservancy, Greenpeace, Ducks Unlimited, or some of the many existing or newly created wildlife management groups. Even the Donald would be better than the US government at management - Donald's Ducks Unlimited.
These free market groups would be much better at management, would provide better protection for nature and the resources on the land, would be able to develop and profit from natural resources responsibly and avoid the politics involved. They could exchange oil rights for cash, manage the development of those oil rights, pass profits off to their shareholders and increase the land under management at the same time.
It is especially important to privatize the ownership of air, lakes and rivers. The air should be returned to the individual land owners. As a privately held asset, air pollution would become illegal immediately, as it would always be in a free market. Polluters would have to stop. Only under socialism does the government allow air pollution. Under a free market, the land owners, park owners, river owners, lake owners, campgroud owners, summer camp owners, etc would each individually and as a group, be able to monitor air pollutors and have them jailed for pollution. Socialism makes pollution legal.
Lakes and rivers need to be managed by private groups who will then have the right to keep their water clean. Polluting the water would not be a matter of regulation whereby pollution is allowed by the socialist authorities. It would be illegal. The owners of the lakes and rivers would be able to demand that all pollution stop, just as no one is allowed to dump truckloads of trash on your front lawn.
The government has failed miserably at land, air, water and resource management. These assets should be removed from governmental control. Socialism always fails. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:30 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Actually, we should sell off the public lands. Because we have a great deal of debt, and its wrong to pass it off to our children, whether it be in the form of inflation (creating money) or interest. |
Oh, pshaw!
Your generation is in serious danger of going down in history as the most self-centered, most what-is-worse-than-self-centered?--I can't think of anything except 'panty waste'. There was a time when the next generation had faith in the country. What happened to you guys? Too much Baskin-Robbins--too much 'self-abuse'? Pathetic.
You remind me of Prissy in 'Gone With the Wind'. (Check out the scene where Prissy is supposed to get help for the baby being born--that's you guys.) Yeah, yeah, yeah, sell off the national parks to the money boys so WE (you) don't have to do any work. God forbid WE should have to do anything. Talk about ENTITLEMENT!
Libertarians' motto: I got mine. F the rest of you! |
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jaykimf
Joined: 24 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:46 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| Actually, we should sell off the public lands. Because we have a great deal of debt, and its wrong to pass it off to our children, whether it be in the form of inflation (creating money) or interest. |
That's right. Damn Roosevelt and Teddy and all the other idiots who saddled future generations with a national park system. Its not like land is a good investment or anything. Look at all the money we wasted on buying Alaska and the Louisiana purchase. We all know how those boondoggles turned out. Perfect example of generational theft- burdening future generations with the debt incurred to finance those follies. It's not as if land appreciates in value, obviously it has to be depreciated every year. Luckily now is the perfect time to sell. The real estate market is in a depression, people and businesses can't get financing. Throwing a few trillion in land onto the market will obviously ensure that we can get record low prices and will also drive the entire real estate market lower . People might even be able to buy a house with their unemployment income. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:06 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Actually, we should sell off the public lands. Because we have a great deal of debt, and its wrong to pass it off to our children, whether it be in the form of inflation (creating money) or interest. |
Oh, pshaw!
Your generation is in serious danger of going down in history as the most self-centered, most what-is-worse-than-self-centered?--I can't think of anything except 'panty waste'. There was a time when the next generation had faith in the country. What happened to you guys? Too much Baskin-Robbins--too much 'self-abuse'? Pathetic.
You remind me of Prissy in 'Gone With the Wind'. (Check out the scene where Prissy is supposed to get help for the baby being born--that's you guys.) Yeah, yeah, yeah, sell off the national parks to the money boys so WE (you) don't have to do any work. God forbid WE should have to do anything. Talk about ENTITLEMENT!
Libertarians' motto: I got mine. F the rest of you! |
As usual, you miss the point...
It has nothing at all to do with "hard work". Our debt is the result of criminal fraud created by the Fed and banks in callusion with our corrupt government, which spends far beyond its means. It is an unnatural debt (the kind that actually consists of our entire money supply, which is created as debt through the fraudulent form of fractional reserve banking), one that is literally impossible to pay off.
In fact it is impossible for our debt (which has interest attached) to do anything but increase over time- this is a built in feature of our totally flawed monetary system. It is also known as a ponzi scheme.
Having said that, selling all our land and assets off would be completely futile as it wouldn't even come close to paying off all the debt plus interest owed back to the Fed and the banking system. The only solution is to abolish the Fed and write all the debt owed to it off, suffer the consequences, and issue a new currency. Either way it won't be pleasant... |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:15 am Post subject: |
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As usual, you miss the point...
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As usual, if you put a hat on, your point won't show.  |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
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As usual, you miss the point...
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As usual, if you put a hat on, your point won't show. |
Feel free to address the points I made. You know how to read, right? |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:36 am Post subject: |
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| I saw assertions, not points. Not the same thing, by far. |
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jaykimf
Joined: 24 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:03 am Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
It has nothing at all to do with "hard work". Our debt is the result of criminal fraud created by the Fed and banks in callusion with our corrupt government, which spends far beyond its means. It is an unnatural debt (the kind that actually consists of our entire money supply, which is created as debt through the fraudulent form of fractional reserve banking), one that is literally impossible to pay off.
In fact it is impossible for our debt (which has interest attached) to do anything but increase over time- this is a built in feature of our totally flawed monetary system. It is also known as a ponzi scheme.
Having said that, selling all our land and assets off would be completely futile as it wouldn't even come close to paying off all the debt plus interest owed back to the Fed and the banking system. The only solution is to abolish the Fed and write all the debt owed to it off, suffer the consequences, and issue a new currency. Either way it won't be pleasant... |
Abolishing the Fed would not put an end to the private banking system or fractional reserve banking, both of which existed long before the fed was created and would continue to exist after abolishing of the fed. Furthermore, "As of September 30, 2008, the FRB owned $221 billion, net of $256 billion in securities lent to dealers, for total holdings of $477 billion.". Obviously that is a tiny fraction of the U.S.'s debt and eliminating that debt would be pretty insignificant, especially since the Fed returns its profits to the U.S. Treasury. Can't you read? That's all the time I've got for you today troll. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| jaykimf wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
It has nothing at all to do with "hard work". Our debt is the result of criminal fraud created by the Fed and banks in callusion with our corrupt government, which spends far beyond its means. It is an unnatural debt (the kind that actually consists of our entire money supply, which is created as debt through the fraudulent form of fractional reserve banking), one that is literally impossible to pay off.
In fact it is impossible for our debt (which has interest attached) to do anything but increase over time- this is a built in feature of our totally flawed monetary system. It is also known as a ponzi scheme.
Having said that, selling all our land and assets off would be completely futile as it wouldn't even come close to paying off all the debt plus interest owed back to the Fed and the banking system. The only solution is to abolish the Fed and write all the debt owed to it off, suffer the consequences, and issue a new currency. Either way it won't be pleasant... |
Abolishing the Fed would not put an end to the private banking system or fractional reserve banking, both of which existed long before the fed was created and would continue to exist after abolishing of the fed. |
The Fed is based on the Bank of England model. However, in the US we had a currency issued by the Treasury (called the greenback), which was interest free and worked just fine, thank you very much.
| Quote: |
| Furthermore, "As of September 30, 2008, the FRB owned $221 billion, net of $256 billion in securities lent to dealers, for total holdings of $477 billion.". Obviously that is a tiny fraction of the U.S.'s debt and eliminating that debt would be pretty insignificant, especially since the Fed returns its profits to the U.S. Treasury. |
Sorry, but I've already debunked that laughable propaganda site of yours, which is full of outright lies. The Fed does not return the interest it earns on the nation's $99+ trillion overall debt to the Treasury. This is a fact.
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| Can't you read? That's all the time I've got for you today troll. |
Hmm, a totally unwarranted and unprovoked personal insult... I wonder if the mods will take notice. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:40 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| I saw assertions, not points. Not the same thing, by far. |
Ok. So you neither disagree nor agree then? 
I sure hope a cat hasn't got your tongue ya-ta. |
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benji
Joined: 21 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
Privatization could mean setting up private park corporations that would own the land, with every US citizen being given a share and electing the board of directors. Each citizen owner would have the option of selling or holding his share. |
Privatization could also mean that every last tree is sold to timber companies and every inch of ground mined and drilled. Presto. No more parks. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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