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bassexpander
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.
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 Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 4:49 am Post subject: Re: Obama Hate Speech |
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| Morning_Star wrote: |
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| On Facebook, I made mention that I wasn't against the whole idea of gov't healthcare, seeing as how it is inexpensive in Korea, but I am against giving illegals the chance to get healthcare. In response, a former co-worker went on a diatribe and wrote this: |
uh not gonna read that but where did you get the idea that illegals will be getting healthcare? 
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http://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/27/health.care.immigrants/
| Quote: |
(CNN) -- Immigrants living illegally in the United States could be mandated to have health insurance under the proposed health care reform bill but would be ineligible to receive subsidies to afford such coverage, a report from the Congressional Research Service says.
Rep. Xavier Becerra, D-California, rejected a citizenship verification system, calling rules it called for "unworkable."
The report, prepared by the nonpartisan policy research arm of Congress, provides a close reading of the treatment of noncitizens in the House bill on health care reform, HR 3200.
While the report found that federal subsidies to obtain health coverage would be restricted to U.S. citizens and legal residents, it also noted that the bill does not specify a citizenship verification system, something that critics say creates a loophole for undocumented immigrants to receive subsidies anyway.
The report, released Tuesday, "undermines the claims of the president and others that illegal immigrants would not be covered under the House version of the bill," Mark Krikorian, executive director of the Washington-based Center for Immigration Studies, told CNN. |
And in case you'd like to hear a Democrat support this kind of thing on video just this past week (and please don't say, "OH.. FOX NEWS!!!") Just listen to the Democrat talking:
http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?playerId=011008&streamingFormat=FLASH&referralObject=10153283&referralPlaylistId=df5603c3d11ca9a023b0070cfc5f297e279fd3a7
| Morning_Star wrote: |
| BTW are you gonna tell the 43 million poor AMERICAN CITIZENS that you don't believe they should get healthcare because you're too afraid some illegals will also benefit? In the meanwhile they should all just suffer? What a selfish opinion. |
Ummm... feel free to read what I said... I said I was in support of nationalized health care.
Just not for illegals. |
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ChopChaeJoe
Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:05 am Post subject: |
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| Health care should be a basic human given. We aren't in the stone age anymore. |
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seonsengnimble
Joined: 02 Jun 2009
Location: taking a ride on the magic English bus
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:12 am Post subject: |
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While most people who don't support Obama are not racist, a considerable portion of those who adamantly oppose him are. The people who Glen Beck and Rush Limbaugh speak to are pretty far down that road. "Barack Obama hates white people" and "Barack the magic Negro" aren't the most cosmopolitan or enlightened statements.
The birther movement, the Obama is Muslim idea, and the Obama pals around with terrorists idea are pretty racist. Granted, the line "pals around with terrorsists" referred to a white terrorist with no Islamic beliefs, but the line was meant to further associate Obama with Islamic terrorism.
I've been pretty disappointed with his presidency so far, but it has been for the opposite reasons that the Glenn Beck fans are. A significant amount of my disappointment is directed towards congress which, although democratically controlled, seems to be proposing legislation which would have been considered conservative forty years ago, but Obama should be doing a little more than he has been doing. |
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Morning_Star
Joined: 21 Jan 2009
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:29 am Post subject: Re: Obama Hate Speech |
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| bassexpander wrote: |
| Morning_Star wrote: |
| Quote: |
| On Facebook, I made mention that I wasn't against the whole idea of gov't healthcare, seeing as how it is inexpensive in Korea, but I am against giving illegals the chance to get healthcare. In response, a former co-worker went on a diatribe and wrote this: |
uh not gonna read that but where did you get the idea that illegals will be getting healthcare?
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http://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/27/health.care.immigrants/
| Quote: |
(CNN) -- Immigrants living illegally in the United States could be mandated to have health insurance under the proposed health care reform bill but would be ineligible to receive subsidies to afford such coverage, a report from the Congressional Research Service says.
Rep. Xavier Becerra, D-California, rejected a citizenship verification system, calling rules it called for "unworkable."
The report, prepared by the nonpartisan policy research arm of Congress, provides a close reading of the treatment of noncitizens in the House bill on health care reform, HR 3200.
While the report found that federal subsidies to obtain health coverage would be restricted to U.S. citizens and legal residents, it also noted that the bill does not specify a citizenship verification system, something that critics say creates a loophole for undocumented immigrants to receive subsidies anyway.
The report, released Tuesday, "undermines the claims of the president and others that illegal immigrants would not be covered under the House version of the bill," Mark Krikorian, executive director of the Washington-based Center for Immigration Studies, told CNN. |
And in case you'd like to hear a Democrat support this kind of thing on video just this past week (and please don't say, "OH.. FOX NEWS!!!") Just listen to the Democrat talking:
http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?playerId=011008&streamingFormat=FLASH&referralObject=10153283&referralPlaylistId=df5603c3d11ca9a023b0070cfc5f297e279fd3a7
| Morning_Star wrote: |
| BTW are you gonna tell the 43 million poor AMERICAN CITIZENS that you don't believe they should get healthcare because you're too afraid some illegals will also benefit? In the meanwhile they should all just suffer? What a selfish opinion. |
Ummm... feel free to read what I said... I said I was in support of nationalized health care.
Just not for illegals. |
So what if they do? Are they any LESS people? Sure they shouldn't be here illegally but what happened to "human rights"? Or does that only apply for "Americans"? Do you get to pick and choose which nationality/race of people "deserve" healthcare. Obama shouldn't even be trying to defend his actions to those racist white guys who are peeved because a black man is above them. HELL YEAH I am for healthcare for ALL people. Does it make you happy to see some poor Mexicans suffering in America whether they are "legal" or not?
You are in "support" of nationalized healthcare as long as they cover ONLY Americans but you also believe that it IS covering illegals. See your logic? Please stop going in circles and trying to hide your tracks. |
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nathanrutledge
Joined: 01 May 2008
Location: Marakesh
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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The fact, in short, is that freedom, to be meaningful in an organized society must consist of an amalgam of hierarchy of freedoms and restraints. ~Samuel Hendel
Life is about choices. Some of my friends chose to go from high school straight into the workforce. Some of us chose college. Some of us had (what we considered, at the time) a lot of money and toys. Some of us had nothing. Now, some of us have no health insurance because we can't afford it because we didn't bother to spend our money wisely or invest in our future. Some of us have money, and toys, and insurance.
Yes, the system has flaws. But, see my above quote. We are a free society, and the basis of that freedom is choice. The choice to climb the ladder and achieve or to sit idly by and watch others achieve, taking from them what they want to give, not what they are forced at gunpoint by the government to give.
BUT, back on point, I have been called a racist so many times for simply saying I didn't vote for Obama and I never would. Who cares? If calling me a racist makes someone feel better about themselves, go wild.
The quote above generally summarizes my feelings. We are all free to succeed or to fail. Obama wants to take away the ability to fail and pay for it by taking from those who put in the effort to succeed. Yes, there are people who need assistance, and I have no problem with a safety net, but a safety net is just that. It's there to catch people. It's not a safety hammock. |
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manlyboy
Joined: 01 Aug 2004
Location: Darwin, Northern Territory, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:07 pm Post subject: Re: Obama Hate Speech |
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| Morning_Star wrote: |
What a loser. Talking to people like you is like talking to a chair but at least a chair is not annoying. You're taking it of context. I listened to part of the speech and it was about how America was becoming a racist, nationalistic country. Which is actually kinda true. Did you even listen to the speech or were you too busy banging your first cousin?
BTW, not putting up with ANY opposition and beating down anyone who is against "your country" is the first symptom of facism. Oh the irony. Go read the Nazi Germany history you ignorant fool. |
Damn! I see we have Oscar Wilde posting on the forum these days! Very witty stuff with the chair simile, allstar! Good for you. And that was a very cogent and succinct argument as to how the act of mentioning simple facts is actually the act of cousin humpers taking things out of context. Well done. I must take umbrage with your usage of the word irony however. Irony is when the intended meaning is the exact opposite of the literal meaning. For example, when a juvenile, foaming-at-the-mouth, macho-posturing anonymous internet message board poster calls someone else a loser - now that is irony. |
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gakduki
Joined: 16 Jul 2009
Location: Passed out on line 2 going in circles
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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Obama is yet another Catalyst in the great demise of America. Welcome to a century of decline for a superpower. Riddled with debt, poverty and UE on the rise, a loss of classic jobs, losing foriegn influence. Buss didn't help, and Obama is the king of credit. Now medicare? American's will need it when they lose their jobs, interest rates go back up (so the debt becomes way more expensive), and people start jumping out of windows.
I'd bring a shotgun to the anti-obama parade if I were American too. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| nathanrutledge wrote: |
The fact, in short, is that freedom, to be meaningful in an organized society must consist of an amalgam of hierarchy of freedoms and restraints. ~Samuel Hendel
Life is about choices. Some of my friends chose to go from high school straight into the workforce. Some of us chose college. Some of us had (what we considered, at the time) a lot of money and toys. Some of us had nothing. Now, some of us have no health insurance because we can't afford it because we didn't bother to spend our money wisely or invest in our future. Some of us have money, and toys, and insurance.
Yes, the system has flaws. But, see my above quote. We are a free society, and the basis of that freedom is choice. The choice to climb the ladder and achieve or to sit idly by and watch others achieve, taking from them what they want to give, not what they are forced at gunpoint by the government to give.
BUT, back on point, I have been called a racist so many times for simply saying I didn't vote for Obama and I never would. Who cares? If calling me a racist makes someone feel better about themselves, go wild.
The quote above generally summarizes my feelings. We are all free to succeed or to fail. Obama wants to take away the ability to fail and pay for it by taking from those who put in the effort to succeed. Yes, there are people who need assistance, and I have no problem with a safety net, but a safety net is just that. It's there to catch people. It's not a safety hammock. |
I'm fine with citizen failure meaning they can't have as many nice things. If you fail to succeed, you can't buy the car you want, you can't have as nice a home (or maybe can't own a home at all and must simply rent), you can't eat out as often, you can't go on many vacations, etc. Fine, great. We have that, and I think we can continue to have that. It's reasonable to reward success.
None the less, I don't want people to be able to fail so badly it costs them their lives, or even seriously impairs their health. Nor do I want people losing their homes because they got sick; that doesn't benefit anyone. A non-profit , governmentally run system which pools risk in order to minimize its impact on any individual member of the pool (which is what insurance did, before it became a for-profit parasite on our society) is the ideal way to make this happen.
You can still have your system of success and failure while keeping something as important as health care out of bounds. |
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Morning_Star
Joined: 21 Jan 2009
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:41 pm Post subject: Re: Obama Hate Speech |
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| manlyboy wrote: |
| Morning_Star wrote: |
What a loser. Talking to people like you is like talking to a chair but at least a chair is not annoying. You're taking it of context. I listened to part of the speech and it was about how America was becoming a racist, nationalistic country. Which is actually kinda true. Did you even listen to the speech or were you too busy banging your first cousin?
BTW, not putting up with ANY opposition and beating down anyone who is against "your country" is the first symptom of facism. Oh the irony. Go read the Nazi Germany history you ignorant fool. |
Damn! I see we have Oscar Wilde posting on the forum these days! Very witty stuff with the chair simile, allstar! Good for you. And that was a very cogent and succinct argument as to how the act of mentioning simple facts is actually the act of cousin humpers taking things out of context. Well done. I must take umbrage with your usage of the word irony however. Irony is when the intended meaning is the exact opposite of the literal meaning. For example, when a juvenile, foaming-at-the-mouth, macho-posturing anonymous internet message board poster calls someone else a loser - now that is irony. |
You would get the irony if you weren't so dumb. See how you still don't get it? Maybe your inbred mind is too slow for normal comprehension. |
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proustme
Joined: 13 Jun 2009
Location: Nowon-gu
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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| At least if you're a prisoner, you are mandated to get some modicum of health care. |
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nathanrutledge
Joined: 01 May 2008
Location: Marakesh
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| Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:24 am Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| nathanrutledge wrote: |
The fact, in short, is that freedom, to be meaningful in an organized society must consist of an amalgam of hierarchy of freedoms and restraints. ~Samuel Hendel
Life is about choices. Some of my friends chose to go from high school straight into the workforce. Some of us chose college. Some of us had (what we considered, at the time) a lot of money and toys. Some of us had nothing. Now, some of us have no health insurance because we can't afford it because we didn't bother to spend our money wisely or invest in our future. Some of us have money, and toys, and insurance.
Yes, the system has flaws. But, see my above quote. We are a free society, and the basis of that freedom is choice. The choice to climb the ladder and achieve or to sit idly by and watch others achieve, taking from them what they want to give, not what they are forced at gunpoint by the government to give.
BUT, back on point, I have been called a racist so many times for simply saying I didn't vote for Obama and I never would. Who cares? If calling me a racist makes someone feel better about themselves, go wild.
The quote above generally summarizes my feelings. We are all free to succeed or to fail. Obama wants to take away the ability to fail and pay for it by taking from those who put in the effort to succeed. Yes, there are people who need assistance, and I have no problem with a safety net, but a safety net is just that. It's there to catch people. It's not a safety hammock. |
I'm fine with citizen failure meaning they can't have as many nice things. If you fail to succeed, you can't buy the car you want, you can't have as nice a home (or maybe can't own a home at all and must simply rent), you can't eat out as often, you can't go on many vacations, etc. Fine, great. We have that, and I think we can continue to have that. It's reasonable to reward success.
None the less, I don't want people to be able to fail so badly it costs them their lives, or even seriously impairs their health. Nor do I want people losing their homes because they got sick; that doesn't benefit anyone. A non-profit , governmentally run system which pools risk in order to minimize its impact on any individual member of the pool (which is what insurance did, before it became a for-profit parasite on our society) is the ideal way to make this happen.
You can still have your system of success and failure while keeping something as important as health care out of bounds. |
I agree, I don't want people dying because they can't afford health care. But I am reminded of a childhood story about the farm animals making bread and how at each step in the process, the hen asked who would help (till the earth, sow the seeds, harvest the grain, etc) and they all said "Not I," and in the end, when the bread was ready, none of them got it for they contributed nothing.
Fine, let's pool the risk in one giant group. But why should I pay for someone else's health insurance if they don't pay for any of it themselves? I work hard for my money and I'll be damned if I'm going to give it away. How do we stop the problem of free riders while maintaining our liberties? I don't think that we can and that's a huge problem with this situation.
Proustme, I almost pooped myself with laughter at your prisoner comment. If you'd like, I'll give you my brothers email address (the prison case worker) so you can hear what kind of health care the prisoners receieve (and the terrible cost they must pay for it!). |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 10:33 am Post subject: Re: Obama Hate Speech |
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| Morning_Star wrote: |
| bassexpander wrote: |
| Morning_Star wrote: |
| Quote: |
| On Facebook, I made mention that I wasn't against the whole idea of gov't healthcare, seeing as how it is inexpensive in Korea, but I am against giving illegals the chance to get healthcare. In response, a former co-worker went on a diatribe and wrote this: |
uh not gonna read that but where did you get the idea that illegals will be getting healthcare?
|
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/27/health.care.immigrants/
| Quote: |
(CNN) -- Immigrants living illegally in the United States could be mandated to have health insurance under the proposed health care reform bill but would be ineligible to receive subsidies to afford such coverage, a report from the Congressional Research Service says.
Rep. Xavier Becerra, D-California, rejected a citizenship verification system, calling rules it called for "unworkable."
The report, prepared by the nonpartisan policy research arm of Congress, provides a close reading of the treatment of noncitizens in the House bill on health care reform, HR 3200.
While the report found that federal subsidies to obtain health coverage would be restricted to U.S. citizens and legal residents, it also noted that the bill does not specify a citizenship verification system, something that critics say creates a loophole for undocumented immigrants to receive subsidies anyway.
The report, released Tuesday, "undermines the claims of the president and others that illegal immigrants would not be covered under the House version of the bill," Mark Krikorian, executive director of the Washington-based Center for Immigration Studies, told CNN. |
And in case you'd like to hear a Democrat support this kind of thing on video just this past week (and please don't say, "OH.. FOX NEWS!!!") Just listen to the Democrat talking:
http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?playerId=011008&streamingFormat=FLASH&referralObject=10153283&referralPlaylistId=df5603c3d11ca9a023b0070cfc5f297e279fd3a7
| Morning_Star wrote: |
| BTW are you gonna tell the 43 million poor AMERICAN CITIZENS that you don't believe they should get healthcare because you're too afraid some illegals will also benefit? In the meanwhile they should all just suffer? What a selfish opinion. |
Ummm... feel free to read what I said... I said I was in support of nationalized health care.
Just not for illegals. |
So what if they do? Are they any LESS people? Sure they shouldn't be here illegally but what happened to "human rights"? Or does that only apply for "Americans"? Do you get to pick and choose which nationality/race of people "deserve" healthcare. Obama shouldn't even be trying to defend his actions to those racist white guys who are peeved because a black man is above them. HELL YEAH I am for healthcare for ALL people. Does it make you happy to see some poor Mexicans suffering in America whether they are "legal" or not?
You are in "support" of nationalized healthcare as long as they cover ONLY Americans but you also believe that it IS covering illegals. See your logic? Please stop going in circles and trying to hide your tracks. |
The United States is not a global NGO. It has no obligations to non-citizens. None. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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| The United States is not a global NGO. It has no obligations to non-citizens. None. |
Urmmm...Some people think that people owe all people just because we're all people. Kinda like common courtesy. Anyway, it isn't like illegals don't contribute to society with their labor and their taxes--yes, every time they buy a gallon of gas or a pack of cigarettes they pay taxes. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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| I do appreciate the sentiment. But the American government is broke. It can't afford a paperclip. Get the house in order and then talk about it. The best gift America can give to the world is not "health care" but a robust, solvent economy. |
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