Korean Job Discussion Forums

[bcraig]

It seems like people always have such horror stories about teaching at Hagwons or private language institutions in South Korea ... but I'm determined not to let it discourage me.

Does anyone have recommendations of good schools to teach at? I'm trying to put together a list.

Thanks in advance.

[lifeinkorea]

I think you should talk to the school. No one is just going to tell you a good hagwon.

For me a good hagwon is a nice school which doesn't have a high turnover rate. By asking for a list, you are basically asking for a list of hagwons that are no longer hiring that teacher. Do you really want that?

Get photos of the school, classroom photos especially. Talk to the owner. If the owner won't at least say hi over the phone, move on to another school.

When you get a school you think is good, post the contract here in the appropriate area.

[cruisemonkey]

[bcraig]

Ummm ... I'm asking for recommendations. I suppose the wording of my question was redundant. So sorry if that offended you.

Maybe you're implying that there are no good schools? I'm not sure. I do know that I have about 15 friends that are or were in South Korea, teaching at Hagwons, with little or nothing negative to say. I can't imagine my friends are the only ones having positive experiences.

If you don't have a recommendation, then please don't post.

[cruisemonkey]

[bcraig]

I have, thank you very much. I'm just trying to do research and see if anyone in this community has anything to offer ... is that so wrong?

I'm not sure why you're so cranky, or why you're so appalled that I'm asking for advice. I'm sure there are people that post here that have just finished, or are about to finish a job at a Hagwon that they recommend.

What's your story? Where do you teach?

I don't mind if you post. I just don't understand why you're being so mean.

[yoja]

I echo the recommendation that you ask your fifteen friends for the names of the schools where they work(ed).

And for the sake of enlightenment, let's say I work at a great school. If it's really that wonderful, likely scenarios are that I would (1) continue to work there myself, eliminating a potential job opening, or (2) have some emotional investment in the place, making it more likely that I recommend the school to one of my OWN friends or at least someone I know to be a decent teacher ahead of a total stranger on the internet. Another consideration that you will understand after a year or two of experience under your belt is that my definition of a "great school" is going to be entirely different than your definition. Further, because hakwons especially have such a high turnover rate (that's generally the nature of the business when so many people are on one-year contracts), just because it was a "great school" when I worked there is no guarantee that the owner, office staff, other teachers, students, etc. haven't become a total nightmare to work with, or that *you* will enjoy them as much as I did.

I think your question is kind of like asking (and asking anonymously on the internet, mind you) for references for someone who would make a great girlfriend. That's just not going to happen for so many (hopefully obvious) reasons. It's just something that you have to find for yourself. That's why your thread is not getting the response you were hoping for.

[bcraig]

Yoja,

Thanks for your post. I have asked my friends, I just figured I wouldn't be doing any harm by asking a bigger pool of people their recommendations.
I understand that there is a high turnover rate. Most of the people I know have taught English abroad for just one year and left (even great jobs) because they only wanted to be abroad for a year. I also understand that friends would likely recommend good jobs to friends, I just thought maybe a few people out there wouldn't mind helping someone they don't know.

I also understand that experience is completely relative, but I'd still like to hear positive feedback from people who enjoyed their teaching position.

Would a better question be: Share your positive teaching experiences at a Hagwon, including the name of the school? Or is asking for this just a waste of time?

Thank you.

[Carla]

Honestly, probably the best way to go is just ask if anyone is happy at their current school and will be leaving in the near future. I could give you a list of schools but they chances that they are hiring anybody now are 0 to none.

And as a previous poster said, people have different experiences, at the same time, at the same school. Different presonalities clash sometimes.

If the posters here were to actually make a list of every school they've been happy with, it would be too large to do you any good, and half those schools would be on somebodies bad list also.

Basically, your original question has no answer, and at the same time, an answer too large to help.

To find a job, you should just find one that matches what you want, and then ask if anybody knows about that job.

[cruisemonkey]

[blonde researcher]

When doing your research on 'good schools' you do need to factor in that many hagwons in Korea change their name every few years as the owner ditches the name he has used for 2 years in order to buy into the latest "best -I've got to be in" franchise of the year.

As one franchise gets a good name such as Avalon in 2008, then another franchise or named brand loses out.

Also you may get told a franchise name like ECC or BCM to go and work in; BUT many hagwons with common names are owner operated and may have terrible work hours, conditions and housing and others will be managed from head franchise offices and will be more reliable.

Then factor in that the majority of hagwons are run like the corner store by zealous mom and pops who want to start their own new business, so they go and buy a hagwon that may have been great and well liked by parents and students in 2007.

Then with their new unskilled ownership underway the students all get moved by their parents to another new hagwon nearby as the foreign teachers leave or do runners as other issues arise that will be caused by mom and pop having no understanding of the laws and taxes and pension deductions etc.

The majority of hagwon owners in Korea are small time players and know nothing about selling real education, and the hagwon is run just like a business selling set franchise and labelled products products.

As a broken and poor mom and pop walks away from a hagwon that may have had troubles and been blacklisted by a foreign teacher as a hell hole to work at, another new owner will step in and change the dynamics and bring new students back.

You will never find what you are looking for because of the speed of change in ownership and the turnover of good and bad foreign teachers and their reports, along with the frequent start up of the new franchises and single hagwons to be the best 'McDonalds' or corner store of the market.

You are best to get good word of mouth of a vacancy opening up. BUT sooner or later you have to take a chance and make a decision. You have a 50-50 chance of getting it right!

[cruisemonkey]

[seonsengnimble]

Hagwons are generally hit or miss. A safe way to go is to work for a chain rather than a franchise. If you work for YBM, CDI, JLS or another chain, you're more likely to be paid on time and screwed a little less. People still have troubles with these places, but not as many as with franchises.

[blonde researcher]

Chain = franchise

What do you see as the difference?

Individual Koreans with the know how and the money can buy an ECC or an Avalon named hagwon if they are prepared to use their trademarked materials and sell the school bags to the students and have the signage on their pick up mini buses.

CDI trains the teachers they hire then sells them to teach at specific locations. CDI also is involved in recruiting for EPIK and other educational ventures as well. Is this good?????

[KoreanAmbition]

OP,

Possibly I can shed light on why you're getting blitzed with sarcasm and ridicule.


I work at what I consider a very good university job. (unigwon).

However, there have been many negative things said about the job. So even if I post and say it's a good job, there are going to be a bunch of others that don't share my opinion. In the end, what will you have learned?


Also, a "good job"? What is that to YOU?

Do you want to work only a small number of hours?
Do you mind working a lot of hours?
Do you want to work mornings?
Do you want to work evenings?
Do you mind working weekends?
Do you care greatly about vacation?
Does workplace politics matter a lot?
Does poor administrative operation matter to you?
Does location matter to you?
Does housing matter to you?
Does the risk of mandatory overtime bother you?
Do you want to ONLY work class-hours or is it okay to be sitting in the hagwon doing prep during expected working hours?
Do you want to teach kids?
Do you want to teach adults?
Do you want to teach middle school, high school, or university kids?
Do you want to design your own courses, or work with a textbook, or have an entire curriculum already designed for you to follow?


All of the above concepts merge into a "salary expectation" based on which choices you make.

No one here works for free; they all get paid. But what they get paid changes based on the characteristics of their job. Further, based on their payment and characteristics, the concept of a job being "good" will also change.


Example:

Joe works 20 hours a week and earns 2.0 million won per month. He gets 1 week of vacation and doesn't have to work any overtime unless he truly wants to.

Bob works 30 hours a week and earns 2.5 million won per month. He gets paid for overtime but he also has to work it if he's asked. He gets 2 weeks of vacation per year.

Which job is good?

Oh, and Joe gets free housing, but Bob gets housing allowance of 500,000 per month.

Did I mention that Joe teaches young children and Bob teaches adults?

Joe has split shifts but no weekends... Bob works only evenings and always works weekends.


etc etc.

If you really want specific answers... design your dream job and ask if it's possible to find. If it is, maybe someone can give you an idea of where to send an application.


I hope this post has helped you realize why the regular posters are giving you a hard time.

Oh, also, they're doing it because this is Dave's... welcome to Dave's. You'll get used to it.