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peppermint
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
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 Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 4:16 pm Post subject: Re: Foreigners stupid |
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| matthewwoodford wrote: |
| I hate to think how kids in my school would have treated a Korean native language teacher had we been required to take Korean classes at 10 or 11 years old; probably a lot worse than Korean kids here. |
Is this a race thing or a language thing? In Canada, most students are required to learn French from around age 8. My teachers spoke mostly French in class, from day one. I don't remember the French teachers being treated with any less respect than any other teacher. |
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VanIslander
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!
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| Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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Peppermint, I don't know where in Canada you are from but in my West Coast province of B.C. I can confidently say that French teachers were widely ridiculed, called "frogs" and resented by even some of the other kids' parents. My class began learning french in grade 3 on Vancouver Island, to wide disgust and teacher abuse. Then when my family moved to the Interior it was in time for french to begin in grade 6. Again, widespread jokes and negativity. There was nothing respected less than the French teacher (yet janitors were always cool. I wonder why.).
And in my university years in the other provinces of Alberta, Manitoba and Ontario, I've heard much criticism of others' french teachers from grade school. I remember because it always hurt a little: I really liked my French teachers but I learned not to admit it around peers.
Toute nation a le peuple qu'elle merite.
It's a language thing. |
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Hank Scorpio
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
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| Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 5:56 pm Post subject: Re: Foreigners stupid |
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| peppermint wrote: |
| I don't remember the French teachers being treated with any less respect than any other teacher. |
Except for when the German class annexes them  |
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peppermint
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
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| Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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I grew up bouncing between Newfoundland and Southern Ontario and I happened to be in Newfoundland at the time when the Meech Lake Accord was being discussed. As you can imagine, there was an awful lot of scoffing at there about the "Distinct Society".
I don't remember any bashing of French teachers, but there was a fair amount of anger at Quebecois once the backlash started. I hated my high school French teacher, but I wouldn't have liked her more if she'd taught another subject. |
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Ilsanman
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea
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| Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 6:08 pm Post subject: yes |
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My elementary school teacher was ridiculed by students, but only because she was a total creampuff.
Anyways, I hope most people are smart enough to know the difference between a Quebecer and a french speaker. Not always the same. If I had studied my ass off, I'd be fluent in french by now, and I am not from anywhere near Quebec. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| in my West Coast province of B.C. I can confidently say that French teachers were widely ridiculed, called "frogs" and resented by even some of the other kids' parents. |
In Canada, unfortunately, the "issue" of teaching French in schools gets lumped in with the issue of official bilingualism, a policy despised by many in the west. Some western rednecks probably assume that the teaching of French in schools is somehow connected to making Canada a bilingual country. What these idiots fail to realize is that learning a second language has traditionally been considered part of a well-rounded education, regardless of whether or not the government is trying to change the linguistic charater of the nation. Even in the abscence of official bilingualism, you'd most likely still have French or some other language being taught in the schools. |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 2:20 am Post subject: |
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[quote="VanIslander"]Peppermint, I don't know where in Canada you are from but in my West Coast province of B.C. I can confidently say that French teachers were widely ridiculed, called "frogs" and resented by even some of the other kids' parents. quote]
True.. when I went to school in England, we had a Phillipino maths teacher who was likewise treated as an outsider, not really to be taken seriously, by the kids... we paid much more attention, automatically to English teachers- which did leave our German and our black teachers out in the cold a bit... So I can see why korean kids see us as a less serious proposition than one of their own. |
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Pyongshin Sangja
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Location: I love baby!
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 5:47 am Post subject: |
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| I have had several friends from Vancouver Island who managed to pass French 11 without being able to say anything at all in French. It blew me away when I realized the parallels between that and Koreans "learning" English. I learned French fairly well in school in Vancouver and I guess I just thought that everyone else was, too. Boy was I wrong. Part of me thinks it has to do with a more insular attitude on the part of those living outside of Canada's larger, multicultural cities. Generalising again. Students that try will make progress, those that don't will still pass. In Canada and in Korea. |
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jajdude
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 6:04 am Post subject: |
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In Canada a lot of the English speakers know almost no French. and can easily get along without French. But still it is on a lot of products, and is a national language, though many will ignore it on products and tv. In Korea, English is on a lot of things but is not a national language and can easily be ignored. What's my point? Not sure  |
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Ilsanman
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 7:18 am Post subject: yes |
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I agree, I learned french for 8 years, and through the way it is taught, and not using it, I lost it. I can still read french very easily. I can usually understand it. I can sometimes understand it when it is spoken, but not often. As far as speaking...single words are my limit.
The thing is, I guess to inflate my ballon, if you will, if a Korean asks me if I can speak french, I say yes. If they start practicing it on me, I quickly switch to Korean. I am much better at it. |
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matthewwoodford
Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Location: Location, location, location.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2004 12:46 am Post subject: |
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| Gord wrote: |
| matthewwoodford wrote: |
| Yes or, as another example, noting that blacks have black skin and whites have white skin does not make one a racist. What's your point? |
My point being that saying we aren't all equal doesn't make a person a racist. |
Saying we aren't all equal is dangerously ambiguous. Obviously we are not all equal in the sense of being the same: that's what you pointed out and anyone can see that. It's important to note that this does not imply people or races do not have equal rights. You just left your statement about equality hanging there and that makes you sound like a right wing politician.
| Gord wrote: |
| The only logical reason I can think of why you added in that part about my posts in another debate was because you were foreshadowing how I will use facts, links, and reason to soundly bring in the truth. Well, ok. You're right. Look at me go, bringing in the truth of enlightenment into your dark, dark world. |
Well, thank you for the illumination but you can shove your light right up your own darkness.
| Gord wrote: |
| What conclusion do I want people to draw from my opinion in this thread? Just that the mere observance of a difference between races does not equal racism. |
You're absolutely right. Obviously. |
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Gord
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2004 1:24 am Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
| In Canada, unfortunately, the "issue" of teaching French in schools gets lumped in with the issue of official bilingualism, a policy despised by many in the west. Some western rednecks probably assume that the teaching of French in schools is somehow connected to making Canada a bilingual country. What these idiots fail to realize is that learning a second language has traditionally been considered part of a well-rounded education, regardless of whether or not the government is trying to change the linguistic charater of the nation. Even in the abscence of official bilingualism, you'd most likely still have French or some other language being taught in the schools. |
Personally, I would have rathered learned Japanese if we had a choice in learning a second language. Far greater cultural and economic avenues would have been opened to me if I had learned it instead.
We learn French because Canada is a bilingual country.
Where I am from in the west, that is why mandatory French in schools is not embraced in popularity contests. I'm all for the requirement of a second language and whatnot, but there is little economical benefit to learning French compared to other languages, especially since French is rarely ever used in day to day lives out west. |
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Gord
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2004 1:41 am Post subject: |
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| matthewwoodford wrote: |
| Saying we aren't all equal is dangerously ambiguous. Obviously we are not all equal in the sense of being the same: that's what you pointed out and anyone can see that. It's important to note that this does not imply people or races do not have equal rights. You just left your statement about equality hanging there and that makes you sound like a right wing politician. |
Did you even read what I said? I specifically used an example that showcase that everyone should be treated equally, thus we have "equal rights". Don't play to the people who just joined the thread and missed my original posting by incorrectly summarizing what I had said to gain popular support.
| Quote: |
| Well, thank you for the illumination but you can shove your light right up your own darkness. |
I'm sorry, what actions have you done to guarantee equal treatment and rights for all regardless of race? I'm spent a few thousand dollars in support of this concept, I'm curious what you've done now that you're suggesting I'm actually quite ignorant in this subject matter.
| Quote: |
| You're absolutely right. Obviously. |
Well, yes. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2004 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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Gord-OTOH exchange:
| Quote: |
On the other hand wrote:
In Canada, unfortunately, the "issue" of teaching French in schools gets lumped in with the issue of official bilingualism, a policy despised by many in the west. Some western rednecks probably assume that the teaching of French in schools is somehow connected to making Canada a bilingual country. What these idiots fail to realize is that learning a second language has traditionally been considered part of a well-rounded education, regardless of whether or not the government is trying to change the linguistic charater of the nation. Even in the abscence of official bilingualism, you'd most likely still have French or some other language being taught in the schools.
Personally, I would have rathered learned Japanese if we had a choice in learning a second language. Far greater cultural and economic avenues would have been opened to me if I had learned it instead.
We learn French because Canada is a bilingual country.
Where I am from in the west, that is why mandatory French in schools is not embraced in popularity contests. I'm all for the requirement of a second language and whatnot, but there is little economical benefit to learning French compared |
I see your point, but I'm not so sure that the preference for studying French can be chalked up entirely to official bilingualism. Even without an official policy, you'd still have a lot of French speakers in Canada, ergo a ready supply of teachers. My understanding is that most American school districts offer Spanish, even though the US doesn't have a nationwide policy of official bilingualism.
As for your point about Japanese being more useful: that's possibly true. I doubt, though, that the average anti-bilingualism yahoo is just waiting to enroll his kids in Japanese once French gets turfed from the schools.
Last edited by On the other hand on Sun Feb 15, 2004 5:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ryleeys
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Location: Columbia, MD
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| Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2004 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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My high school near Washington DC offered Spanish, French, and Latin. I believe there was a German club, but it wasn't a class.
I ended up in Spanish for a few years. |
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