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Ingredients of the H1N1 vaccine
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visitorq

Joined: 11 Jan 2008

Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 4:23 am Post subject:

ropebreezy wrote:

visitorq wrote:

ropebreezy wrote:

Thiomersal is a safe ingredient. The WHO has deemed it safe to use in vaccines.

The WHO says it's safe? Then it must be true! Rolling Eyes

I'm pretty sure the World Health Organization knows more about this than you.

This is just your trusting nature. Basically you know nothing about the WHO, its history, who created and funds it, or its motives. If you did then you wouldn't be so trusting.

Quote:

Care to show me the evidence that thiomersal is unsafe?

Look it up anywhere. It's a highly toxic substance, and nobody disputes this. It's like asking me for evidence that cyanide is unsafe. It's not really up for debate.

Quote:

visitorq wrote:

ropebreezy wrote:

Just because it contains mercury doesn't mean it's unsafe to the body. 5 micrograms is an exremely small amount (50^-6 grams), and mercury is only a part of thiomersal, so the actual amount of the mercury is even smaller.

Mercury is always bad for you. Thiomersol is extremely toxic, especially for children (who are most targeted for vaccination).

I guess we should stop eating fish then. Saying that mercury is always bad for you indicates that you know jack sh** about biology.

Ooh, and I suppose you consider yourself an expert? Listen to what you're saying... Of course Mercury is always bad for you. If you think otherwise, then you are truly confused.

Anyway, Mercury is especially bad for children, particularly young ones whose blood brain barrier hasn't fully developed yet. Moreover, these substances are injected directly into the blood stream. In the case of eating tuna it is ingested and mostly passes right through the system, not absorbed into the blood stream.

Quote:

This confirms my suspicions that you indeed know jack sh** about science. If it affects rats than no, it doesn't necessarily affect humans, sorry. If you question this assertion than feel free to take any entry-level biology course.

Ok, and your hostility here confirms that you're pretending to have a clue when you don't. Rats and humans are both mammals. If a toxic chemical adversely affects them, it is very likely to affect us in a similar way.

Anyway, your writing it off is completely asinine. Yours is just wishful thinking. But go ahead, inject your kids with crap that the vaccine makers claim they have no idea about how it will affect humans, yet sterilizes rats. Be my guest. Rolling Eyes

Quote:

visitorq wrote:

ropebreezy wrote:

Hey fiveeagles, did you know vaccines contain the actual virus itself? Yeah, that's right, H1N1 vaccine contains actual H1N1 particles! You better create a youtube video so that the public can be informed!

Actually they contain live (weakened) viruses. Grown on cancer cells. And inhaled into your nasal cavity. This is where the virus is prone to mutate and be shed by its host.

Yeah, that's the point. I'm demonstrating how easy it is to scare the public with scientific fact. We do inoculate live (weakened) virus into people. And that saves lives. And that's also easy to scare the (ignorant) public with. So please lay off the unfounded scare tactics.

Administering live viruses to people is not some tried tested and true method. It is controversial, and dangerous. People can actually get the sickness itself, and the virus can mutate into a more deadly form. This is especially true if you give it to hundreds of millions of people in the form of a nasal spray (who then go on to shed the virus everywhere they go). It's complete madness.

The WHO is encouraging this method, while the same time engaging in fear mongering over swine flu, which is basically a joke in itself. They're warning about mass deaths, which haven't happened (the vaccines are more dangerous than the flu itself), and now they're trying to give vaccines with live viruses to half the country. The whole thing is rotten.

Oh, and the WHO is basically funded by pharmaceutical giants and hard-core eugenicists like the Rockefellers. But I wouldn't expect you to actually look that up yourself. Because I'm just a nut, and you already know everything.

some waygug-in

Joined: 25 Jan 2003

Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:01 am Post subject:

The WHO... just add the RE on the end and you will understand who the great WHO really is. By the way, perhaps you're up for the challenge: http://www.listen2yourgut.com/blog/gut/200000-to-any-md-wholl-self-vaccinate/

ropebreezy

Joined: 27 Aug 2009

Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:11 am Post subject:

visitorq wrote:

ropebreezy wrote:

visitorq wrote:

ropebreezy wrote:

Thiomersal is a safe ingredient. The WHO has deemed it safe to use in vaccines.

The WHO says it's safe? Then it must be true! Rolling Eyes

I'm pretty sure the World Health Organization knows more about this than you.

This is just your trusting nature. Basically you know nothing about the WHO, its history, who created and funds it, or its motives. If you did then you wouldn't be so trusting.

On what basis am I simply being trusting? I have a B.S. in Microbiology. You still show no evidence towards thiomersal being unsafe.

visitorq wrote:

ropebreezy wrote:

Care to show me the evidence that thiomersal is unsafe?

Look it up anywhere. It's a highly toxic substance, and nobody disputes this. It's like asking me for evidence that cyanide is unsafe. It's not really up for debate.

And yet you don't link anything.

visitorq wrote:

ropebreezy wrote:

visitorq wrote:

ropebreezy wrote:

Mercury is always bad for you. Thiomersol is extremely toxic, especially for children (who are most targeted for vaccination).

I guess we should stop eating fish then. Saying that mercury is always bad for you indicates that you know jack sh** about biology.

Ooh, and I suppose you consider yourself an expert? Listen to yourself. Of course Mercury is ALWAYS bad for you. If you think otherwise, then you are truly full of it.

Anyway, Mercury is especially bad for children, particularly young ones whose blood brain barrier hasn't fully developed yet. Moreover, these substances are injected directly into the blood stream. In the case of eating tuna it is ingested and mostly passes right through the system, not absorbed into the blood stream.

So you admit it mostly passes through the system. Which is to admit mercury retains some presence in the system.

Please give me some evidence that thiomersal is unsafe.

visitorq wrote:

ropebreezy wrote:

Ok, and your hostility here confirms that you're pretending to have a clue when you don't. Rats and humans are both mammals. If a toxic chemical adversely affects them, it is nearly guaranteed to affect us.

Anyway, your writing it off is completely asinine. Yours is just wishful thinking. But go ahead, inject your kids with crap that the vaccine makers claim they have no idea about it will affect humans, yet sterilizes rats. Be my guest. Rolling Eyes

Actually, I have more than a clue. I say again: what affects rats does not necessarily affect humans. The fact that were both mammals does not definitely conclude that what happens to rats will happen to humans.

visitorq wrote:

ropebreezy wrote:

visitorq wrote:

ropebreezy wrote:

Actually they contain live (weakened) viruses. Grown on cancer cells. And inhaled into your nasal cavity. This is where the virus is prone to mutate and be shed by its host.

Injecting live viruses into people is not some tried tested and true method. It is controversial, and dangerous. People can actually get the sickness itself, and the virus can mutate into a more deadly form. This is especially true if you give it to hundreds of millions of people in the form of a nasal spray (who then go on to shed the virus everywhere they go). It's complete madness.

The WHO is encouraging this method, while the same time engaging fear mongering over swine flu, which is basically a joke so far. They're warning about mass deaths, which haven't happened (the vaccines are more dangerous than the flu itself), and now they're trying to give vaccines with live viruses to half the country. Seems pretty rotten to me.

Oh, and the WHO is basically funded by hard-core eugenicists like the Rockefellers. But I wouldn't expect you to actually look that up yourself. But you already know everything.

One individual is different from another. A very small percent of the population suffer adverse effects from flu vaccination. This cannot be avoided by virtue of the fact that every person is on some fundamental level different from the next. Biology is never 100%.

You're basing your fear-smearing of vaccination on this fact. Fine. A very few people get sick from vaccination. Responsible scientists and health care professionals accept this risk for the greater public good.

You are very concerned about the people who suffer adverse effects and get a "virus [that] mutate[s] into a more deadly form." Fine. Give me a study that demonstrates this concern. I will not accept more of your baseless rhetoric.

Swine flu is not a joke. It may seem like a joke to you, only because it's seriousness has yet to begin. Microbiologists and virologists fear it will mutate into something similar to the "Spanish flu" pandemic of 1918, which is considered the most lethal pandemic in human history. It may or may not happen.

Biological ecosystems are extremely complex and it's just not 100% whether this virus will go one way or the other. Most think it won't be that bad. But because it is so similar to the 1918 pandemic, we just simply cannot take the risk.

I'm not going to respond to the last part of your paragraph because

a) I'm not concerned about unfounded and ridiculous conspiracy theories

and

b) I'm actually concerned about hard, scientific fact, particularly those involved in microbiology.

If you have some links that support your doubt into WHO, I'm all ears. Please keep in mind that it is not just WHO that supports vaccinations.

visitorq

Joined: 11 Jan 2008

Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:04 am Post subject:

ropebreezy wrote:

visitorq wrote:

ropebreezy wrote:

visitorq wrote:

ropebreezy wrote:

Thiomersal is a safe ingredient. The WHO has deemed it safe to use in vaccines.

The WHO says it's safe? Then it must be true! Rolling Eyes

I'm pretty sure the World Health Organization knows more about this than you.

This is just your trusting nature. Basically you know nothing about the WHO, its history, who created and funds it, or its motives. If you did then you wouldn't be so trusting.

On what basis am I simply being trusting? I have a B.S. in Microbiology.

And yet you know nothing about the WHO.

Quote:

You still show no evidence towards thiomersal being unsafe.

Here's one:

Quote:

Short-term thimerosal toxicity was investigated in cultured human cerebral cortical neurons and in normal human fibroblasts. Cells were incubated with 125-nM to 250-�M concentrations of thimerosal for 45 min to 24 h. A 4', 6-diamidino-2-phenylindole dihydrochloride (DAPI) dye exclusion test was used to identify nonviable cells and terminal transferase-based nick-end labeling (TUNEL) to label DNA damage. Detection of active caspase-3 was performed in live cell cultures using a cell-permeable fluorescent caspase inhibitor. The morphology of fluorescently labeled nuclei was analyzed. After 6 h of incubation, the thimerosal toxicity was observed at 2 �M based on the manual detection of the fluorescent attached cells and at a 1-�M level with the more sensitive GENios Plus Multi-Detection Microplate Reader with Enhanced Fluorescence. The lower limit did not change after 24 h of incubation. Cortical neurons demonstrated higher sensitivity to thimerosal compared to fibroblasts. The first sign of toxicity was an increase in membrane permeability to DAPI after 2 h of incubation with 250 �M thimerosal. A 6-h incubation resulted in failure to exclude DAPI, generation of DNA breaks, caspase-3 activation, and development of morphological signs of apoptosis. We demonstrate that thimerosal in micromolar concentrations rapidly induce membrane and DNA damage and initiate caspase-3�dependent apoptosis in human neurons and fibroblasts. We conclude that a proposed combination of fluorescent techniques can be useful in analyzing the toxicity of thimerosal.

http://toxsci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/74/2/361

Quote:

So you admit it mostly passes through the system. Which is to admit mercury retains some presence in the system.

Yes, except unlike you I'm not saying this is a good thing.

Quote:

Please give me some evidence that thiomersal is unsafe.

This is just a cop out for you to hide behind. If you google it there are loads of articles discussing its link with things like autism. But I'm guessing what you want a squeeky clean WHO report which doesn't exist. Because they claim they don't even know. And yet thimerosal is a toxic substance (it comes with the hazard symbol of "very toxic" - T+).
http://www.chemblink.com/products/54-64-8.htm

Quote:

And yet the likelihood is very great. And you know it. You are being disingenuous here.

Quote:

One individual is different from another.

Meaningless tautology if I've ever seen one.

Quote:

A very small percent of the population suffer adverse effects from flu vaccination. This cannot be avoided by virtue of the fact that every person is on some fundamental level different from the next. Biology is never 100%.

This is just the propaganda they feed you. The last time they gave a mass swine flu vaccinations in the 70's many people became ill with Guillain-Barre Syndrome. The study of long-term adverse affects of vaccines on children is deliberately ignored and neglected by the WHO.

Quote:

You're basing your fear-smearing of vaccination on this fact. Fine. A very few people get sick from vaccination. Responsible scientists and health care professionals accept this risk for the greater public good.

This is you ignoring the evidence and parroting the propaganda.

Quote:

You are very concerned about the people who suffer adverse effects and get a "virus [that] mutate[s] into a more deadly form." Fine. Give me a study that demonstrates this concern. I will not accept more of your baseless rhetoric.

No, because you'd rather keep your false sense of security and remain willfully ignorant. I get it.

Quote:

Swine flu is not a joke. It may seem like a joke to you, only because it's seriousness has yet to begin. Microbiologists and virologists fear it will mutate into something similar to the "Spanish flu" pandemic of 1918, which is considered the most lethal pandemic in human history. It may or may not happen.

Swine flu was manufactured in a lab. The population is now being primed with it, and given live viruses. But this is a-okay with you. Because conspiracies never exist.

Quote:

Biological ecosystems are extremely complex and it's just not 100% whether this virus will go one way or the other. Most think it won't be that bad. But because it is so similar to the 1918 pandemic, we just simply cannot take the risk.

Yeah, so lets go and give half the population live flu viruses so they can mutate even faster. Brilliant.

Quote:

I'm not going to respond to the last part of your paragraph because

a) I'm not concerned about unfounded and ridiculous conspiracy theories

Yes, you've already mentioned that you prefer willful ignorance to actually looking into these matters.

Quote:

b) I'm actually concerned about hard, scientific fact, particularly those involved in microbiology.

Funny that. Because these pharmaceutical companies and the WHO admit they are using us as guinea pigs, injecting us and our children with deadly toxins and live viruses, having done "no" research before hand. Thimerosal is a toxic chemical, period (classified as such), and yet the WHO claims it doesn't know how it affects humans. Yeah right.

Quote:

If you have some links that support your doubt into WHO, I'm all ears. Please keep in mind that it is not just WHO that supports vaccinations.

I don't think you are all ears... but if you want to understand the WHO, you need to understand who funds it. The Rockefeller Foundation is a big one - they are hard-core eugenicists who have funded the movement since before WWII (when it was actually called eugenics outright). The major pharmaceutical companies like Merck also fund the WHO.

Just google it - information abounds. If you really can't find anything I'll post some links in awhile. You'll probably disregard it as conspiracy nonsense though, without actually following up on it.

some waygug-in

Joined: 25 Jan 2003

Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:12 am Post subject:

http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2003/jan/03013003.html GENEVA, January 30, 2003 (LifeSiteNews.com) - Dr. Jong Wook Lee, a relatively unknown World Health Organization (WHO) insider beat out high profile competitors to become the head of the World Health Organization Tuesday. Other candidates for the post included Dr. Julio Frenk Mora - currently Mexico's Minister of Health and Dr. Pascoal Mocumbi - the Prime Minister of Mozambique. However, Lee's work with WHO included being in charge of and weathering one of the most scandalous accusations to be brought against the organization. Lee, a vaccine expert was in 1994 placed in charge of the WHO Global Programme for Vaccines and Immunizations. In 1995 the BBC aired an investigative documentary verified by the Philippine Department of Health and the Philippine Medical Association that tetanus vaccines from the WHO were combined with a chemical known as beta Human Chorionic Gonadotrophin, an anti-pregnancy agent. The BBC Horizon program entitled "The Human Laboratory", which was never aired in the United States, noted that Philippino women of child-bearing age were administered the tainted vaccine and many miscarriages ensued. Dr. Reynaldo Echavez of the Philippine Medical Association stated that the presence of the HCG in the tetanus shot would cause the women to develop HCG antibodies, which will then cause spontaneous abortion if the women become pregnant. WHO denied the accusation and claimed to have found negligible amounts of HCG 'independent' in the vaccines. However, the BBC report said that "There are several research programmes around the world testing the contraceptive vaccine linked to tetanus, which creates an immune response." Moreover pro-life leaders in the Philippines were alerted that a similar program of surreptitiously sterilizing tetanus vaccines had been perpetrated in Mexico.

ED209

Joined: 17 Oct 2006

Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:29 am Post subject:

visitorq wrote:

Quote:

Please give me some evidence that thiomersal is unsafe.

How about some tightly controlled trials that demonstrate this? Thimerosal was removed from most vaccines except flu shots back in 2001, yet autism continues to rise. There are many things in vaccines that if you gave them in high enough doses they'd cause harm including Dihydrogen Monoxide!

Thimerosal-free vaccines are however available.

visitorq

Joined: 11 Jan 2008

Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:01 am Post subject:

ED209 wrote:

visitorq wrote:

Quote:

Please give me some evidence that thiomersal is unsafe.

I'd like to see a link for this (in bold) if you have one. It is my understanding that thimerosal is still in many vaccines, and trace amounts are still in vaccines where it was supposedly "removed".

Anyway, as for my pointing out that thimerosal is designated a toxic chemical, that is the hazard symbol it is provided with (I believe it's from the European Commission). This is just obvious. It amazes me that people actually want to debate whether organomercury compounds are toxic or not...

ED209

Joined: 17 Oct 2006

Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:07 am Post subject:

visitorq wrote:

ED209 wrote:

I'm not debating whether it is toxic, you amaze yourself. At what point does it cause harm? All medicine contains toxins. Fish contains mercury, but one fish isn't going to kill you or harm your child.

http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/UCM096228

Quote:

Thimerosal has been removed from or reduced to trace amounts in all vaccines routinely recommended for children 6 years of age and younger, with the exception of inactivated influenza vaccine

Many countries have followed yet there has been no fall in autism. Where are you getting your information from that thimerosal can cause autism or is unsafe? Do you have any links to controlled trials or published papers?

Do you still believe thimerosal causes autism? Despite it's removal, rates have increased!
http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/01/vaccines_and_autism_a_tale_of.php

Troutslayer

Joined: 03 Oct 2009
Location: Dark Side of the Moon

Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:14 am Post subject:

Quote:

Just a little note on Smallpox. It's worth remembering.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox

Smallpox has been around for at least 10,000 years. In the 18th century it killed roughly 400,000 Europeans every year. It obviously killed many more Asians and Africans, and thousands to millions of Native Americans (along with other diseases.)

The death rate from this disease was approximately 50% for adults and 80% for children.

At 400,000 a year that's 40,000,000 deaths in the 18th century alone. Add in all the rest of the world outside Europe and all the other centuries before and after the 18th and you have more deaths than all the wars we've ever fought-combined. WWII caused an estimated 40,000,000 deaths.

Smallpox is estimated to have killed about half a billion people in the twentith century alone.

Smallpox was completely erradicated in the second half of the 20th century by a comprehensive vaccination campaign. The lives saved by this campaign must already number in the millions.

Anyone trying to criticise vaccinations as a whole rather than say, one particular vaccination in particular needs to come up with a hazard from vaccination at least as severe as the hazards prevented from vaccination. This is impossible. A vaccination would pretty much have to kill half the western world before it's as bad as what we've been living with for years. Most people have simply forgotten. We just don't know what it's like having kids knowing that there's a 50% chance that they'll

A good post.

Just one thing......smallpox, I don't think, was a sickness developed in a laboratory.

slayer of trout

visitorq

Joined: 11 Jan 2008

Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:26 am Post subject:

ED209 wrote:

visitorq wrote:

ED209 wrote:

The point is that the WHO and vaccine producers won't tell us! They either won't do the research, or won't report it. You're just supposed to trust their good will that they wouldn't do anything to harm you and your children.

I for one have zero trust, whatsoever in the WHO. I happen to know a little about who funds it and the history of eugenics. Of course I can't prove all of it (so you just can wave it off as conspiracy nonsense), but much of it is documented and the connections between the WHO, the pharmaceutical companies and eugenics funders (like the Rockefeller Foundation, the biggest funder in history) are undeniable. The agenda of population control/reduction may be a conspiracy, but it's not a theory.

Quote:

http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/UCM096228
Thimerosal has been removed from or reduced to trace amounts in all vaccines routinely recommended for children 6 years of age and younger, with the exception of inactivated influenza vaccine

Not that I trust the FDA (they're basically a pack of liars), but assuming that's true, the damage is still already done:

"Links between autism and thimerosal
Autism affects 500,000 to 1.5 million Americans and has grown at an annual rate of 10 to 17 percent since the late 1980s. California found a 273 percent increase in autism between 1987 and 1998. Maryland reported a 513 percent increase in autism between 1993 and 1998 and several dozen other states reported similar findings. Some scientists say the estimated number of cases of autism has increased 15-fold �1,500 percent � since 1991, when the number of childhood vaccinations doubled. Whereas one in every 2,500 children was diagnosed with autism before 1991, one in 166 children now have the disease.

This increase in reported autism cases eerily parallels the increase in the number and frequency of thimerosal-containing vaccinations administered to infants. As of today, children are given as many as 21 immunizations in the first 15 months of life. After a number of scientists and concerned activists noticed the correlation, an investigation was launched to get to the heart of the matter.
http://www.naturalnews.com/011764.html

Quote:

Here's a study that shows it can induce autism-like symptoms of neurotoxicity:

"Mitochondrial dysfunction, impaired oxidative-reduction activity, degeneration, and death in human neuronal and fetal cells induced by low-level exposure to thimerosal and other metal compounds"
http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a910652305~db=all~jumptype=rss

"Abstract
Thimerosal (ethylmercurithiosalicylic acid), an ethylmercury (EtHg)-releasing compound (49.55% mercury (Hg)), was used in a range of medical products for more than 70 years. Of particular recent concern, routine administering of Thimerosal-containing biologics/childhood vaccines have become significant sources of Hg exposure for some fetuses/infants. This study was undertaken to investigate cellular damage among in vitro human neuronal (SH-SY-5Y neuroblastoma and 1321N1 astrocytoma) and fetal (nontransformed) model systems using cell vitality assays and microscope-based digital image capture techniques to assess potential damage induced by Thimerosal and other metal compounds (aluminum (Al) sulfate, lead (Pb)(II) acetate, methylmercury (MeHg) hydroxide, and mercury (Hg)(II) chloride) where the cation was reported to exert adverse effects on developing cells. Thimerosal-associated cellular damage was also evaluated for similarity to pathophysiological findings observed in patients diagnosed with autistic disorders (ADs). Thimerosal-induced cellular damage as evidenced by concentration- and time-dependent mitochondrial damage, reduced oxidative-reduction activity, cellular degeneration, and cell death in the in vitro human neuronal and fetal model systems studied. Thimerosal at low nanomolar (nM) concentrations induced significant cellular toxicity in human neuronal and fetal cells. Thimerosal-induced cytoxicity is similar to that observed in AD pathophysiologic studies. Thimerosal was found to be significantly more toxic than the other metal compounds examined. Future studies need to be conducted to evaluate additional mechanisms underlying Thimerosal-induced cellular damage and assess potential co-exposures to other compounds that may increase or decrease Thimerosal-mediated toxicity."

Quote:

Do you still believe thimerosal causes autism? Despite it's removal, rates have increased!
http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/01/vaccines_and_autism_a_tale_of.php

That excerpt seems rather dubious... it discusses autism in Sweden and Denmark in the early 1990s. Then at the end of the article is a disclaimer: "Full disclosure: One of the paper's authors is "...a coinventor and patent coholder of the rotavirus vaccine Rotateq and has served on a scientific advisory board to Merck.""

If you actually want to believe what a Merck advisor (who has even patented his own vaccine Rolling Eyes

) has to say about vaccines, then be my guest.... I for one won't be falling for their lies or injecting any of their poison into my body any time soon.

OneWayTraffic

Joined: 14 Mar 2005

Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:06 pm Post subject:

Troutslayer wrote:

Quote:

A good post.

Just one thing......smallpox, I don't think, was a sickness developed in a laboratory.

slayer of trout

It might have been.

Please provide evidence that it wasn't developed by aliens.

*Takes off tinfoil hat.

The problem that I have with this is that many people are tarring all vaccinations with the same brush. When we have hundreds of thousands of people falling over dead after getting vaccinated, then I'll sit up and take notice. But all I see is arguments over micrograms and milligrams. So where's the beef?

*Mises, thanks for clearing up your opinion on vaccinations. I'm not too big on flu shots either. It's too much of a moving target.

ED209

Joined: 17 Oct 2006

Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:17 pm Post subject:

visitorq wrote:

I for one have zero trust, whatsoever in the WHO. I happen to know a little about who funds it and the history of eugenics. Of course I can't prove all of it (so you just can wave it off as conspiracy nonsense), but much of it is documented and the connections between the WHO, the pharmaceutical companies and eugenics funders (like the Rockefeller Foundation, the biggest funder in history) are undeniable. The agenda of population control/reduction may be a conspiracy, but it's not a theory.

You called it. It wouldn't only be the WHO in on this conspiracy but also every major health authority in the world.

visitorq wrote:

Quote:

Not that I trust the FDA (they're basically a pack of liars), but assuming that's true, the damage is still already done:

How can the damage already be done when those being diganosed with autism today were given thimerosal free vaccines? You don't even have correlation any more.

Quote:

http://www.naturalnews.com/011764.html

Anything showing a link after thimerosal was removed, such as a drop in autism diagnoses?

visitorq wrote:

Quote:

http://autism.change.org/blog/view/misrepresenting_autism_the_geiers_the_lupron_and_vaccine_litigation

Quote:

Dr. Mark Geier and his son, David Geier, are two rather well-known figures in the annals of litigation about autism as "vaccine injury." Dr. Geier trained as a physician and genetic counselor and has testified almost 100 times in vaccine-related cases presided over by "special masters" in the U.S. Court of Federal Claims; his son has a bachelor's degree in biology. Referring to Dr. Steven Novella on the Neurologica blog refers to the Geiers and others who use alternative biomedical methods to "treat" autistic children as part of an "autism treatment subculture."

More at that site on the dubious nature of the Geier's practices.

visitorq wrote:

Quote:

Do you still believe thimerosal causes autism? Despite it's removal, rates have increased!
http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/01/vaccines_and_autism_a_tale_of.php

) has to say about vaccines, then be my guest.... I for one won't be falling for their lies or injecting any of their poison into my body any time soon.

Yes, I'd hate for you to get autism at your age. If you really want me to list more studies I can. Anyway the numbers don't support a link between thimerosal and autism. Also, do you want to trust the Geier's, who are pedalling their own unproven treatment to autism?

visitorq

Joined: 11 Jan 2008

Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 2:28 am Post subject:

ED209 wrote:

visitorq wrote:

You called it. It wouldn't only be the WHO in on this conspiracy but also every major health authority in the world.

Typical. Just because it's a conspiracy doesn't mean it's not true. Your trust in the government amounts to sheer gullibility.

Quote:

How can the damage already be done when those being diganosed with autism today were given thimerosal free vaccines? You don't even have correlation any more.

Thimerosal is still in vaccines.

Quote:

http://www.naturalnews.com/011764.html

Anything showing a link after thimerosal was removed, such as a drop in autism diagnoses?

Thimerosal is still in vaccines.

Quote:

http://autism.change.org/blog/view/misrepresenting_autism_the_geiers_the_lupron_and_vaccine_litigation

Quote:

More at that site on the dubious nature of the Geier's practices.

Got anything else besides baseless ad hominem attacks? Like a rebuttal maybe?

Quote:

Autism is just one of the issues. Mercury is toxic in other ways. Obviously. Not to mention the other toxic substances, or the fact that the bloody thing contains live flu viruses. I guess you forgot about those...

OneWayTraffic

Joined: 14 Mar 2005

Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:19 am Post subject:

Quote:

Live viruses in a vaccine? Whatever will they think of next? The vaccine has to be effective. To be effective it needs to trick the immune system into targeting the real virus. Using live viruses is one way to do it. There's ways to reduce potency so it triggers the immune system, but doesn't get you sick.

Yes Mercury is toxic. But you'd need to show that this risk is worse than that of the flu. And you have yet to do so. Flu causes hundreds of thousands of deaths every year. Just regular flu now mind you.
So where's the hundreds of thousands of thimerosal deaths?

visitorq

Joined: 11 Jan 2008

Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:15 am Post subject:

OneWayTraffic wrote:

Quote:

Balls. These live viruses can mutate and return to virulence. They are not perfectly safe. This is especially the case with the flu. Yet they want to administer live viruses in nasal spray form to millions of people.

There are plenty of scientists on payroll who will whip up fancy reports telling you how safe everything is, when it isn't. Vaccines have killed many people, and yet they always tell you it has nothing to do with vaccines. They're lying to you.

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Yes Mercury is toxic. But you'd need to show that this risk is worse than that of the flu. And you have yet to do so. Flu causes hundreds of thousands of deaths every year. Just regular flu now mind you.
So where's the hundreds of thousands of thimerosal deaths?

Oh man. Please think before you post. You are aware that the last time they vaccinated people for swine flu (in 1976) that 25X more people died (and around 25X that many got Guillain-Barr� syndrome) from the vaccines than the flu itself? You did know that right?

These vaccines are deadly. They kill people and disable them for life. The current swine flu was made in a lab, and now they're going around spraying it into people's nasals and shooting them up with deadly toxins. And you love it!

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