|
Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
ironclad80
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
|
Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:49 am Post subject: Finding a reliable hagwon |
|
|
Hi everyone,
I'm new to the Korean job scene. Initially I've had my sights set on Japan and spent the past three years studying Japanese, earning my CELTA and the past year I've been applying to jobs in Japan with no luck. I know the job market there is quite satured and I'm strongly considering Korea as an alternate choice. At least for now...
I've heard the hagwon from hell stories and I want to take all measures possible to avoid a situation like that but I'm not sure how.
From what I gather, job postings in Korea differ very much from schools in Japan. For example, sometimes I see a job ad such as Position #1, #2, etc.. but never any mention of the school name and when there is a name I never see a website.
I know EPIK would probably be a safer bet, but I want to be the sole teacher and not an assistant. I do know some people who are quite content with their hagwon jobs. Was it luck or are there ways to research?
Would going through a recruiter help ensure an honest employer?
Thanks, any feedback is appreciated! Please point me in the right direction.. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
xingyiman
Joined: 12 Jan 2006
|
Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 2:21 pm Post subject: Re: Finding a reliable hagwon |
|
|
ironclad80 wrote: |
Hi everyone,
I'm new to the Korean job scene. Initially I've had my sights set on Japan and spent the past three years studying Japanese, earning my CELTA and the past year I've been applying to jobs in Japan with no luck. I know the job market there is quite satured and I'm strongly considering Korea as an alternate choice. At least for now...
I've heard the hagwon from hell stories and I want to take all measures possible to avoid a situation like that but I'm not sure how.
From what I gather, job postings in Korea differ very much from schools in Japan. For example, sometimes I see a job ad such as Position #1, #2, etc.. but never any mention of the school name and when there is a name I never see a website.
I know EPIK would probably be a safer bet, but I want to be the sole teacher and not an assistant. I do know some people who are quite content with their hagwon jobs. Was it luck or are there ways to research?
Would going through a recruiter help ensure an honest employer?
Thanks, any feedback is appreciated! Please point me in the right direction.. |
I've been in Korea for several years and only had hogwan jobs. I will start by saying that of all the "hell" stories you've come across, there is most likely a signifigant portion where the problems were instigated by employees themselves. I will not argue that there are some extremely shady bosses out there(public schools included), but not many bosses will generally go out of their way to make life hell for an employee unless it is in retribution for something that employee has done themselves. Schools rely upon foreign teachers to bring in the students and if the school loses a teacher generally it will be reflected in their enrollment.
Most problems stem from cultural misunderstandings. The biggest culprits are percieved disrespect and different expectations of the boss and employee with regards to individual cultural backgrounds. Some hogwan owners will only want you to work a few hours a day and not care if you spend your off time playing PC games. Others will want you to work spilt shifts and weekends up to and over the amount of time stated in your contract. The most important thing to remember is that contracts here are not "iron clad"(no pun intended) as we percieve them to be in the West. Everything is negotiable and therein lies the key to success or failure for an employee, and knowing how to negotiate with your employer means everything.
My first bit of advice-drop any attitude. Korean employers aren't impressed by it and to be truthful they really don't understand it. Many a boss has terminated an amployee early simply out of frustration of being unable to determine what their employee's problem was.
Koreans have a profound sense of hospitality. The genuiness of it is irrelevant. The best way to succeed in getting your requests granted is to make yourself out to be the victim (hint, screaming and threats wont accomplish this). You project to them that you are the victim of injustice and hardship and they are the only ones who can help you. I've used this tactic time and time again with wonderful results. It takes practice and you must realize that niether you or your boss are going to have every thing your way. It's a give and take and you have to orchestrate it to where the giving is in your favor and the boss doesn't feel slighted in the process.
But like I stated earlier, there are genuninely crappy hogwans and the key to avoiding them is to do a good job of snooping them out to begin with. This is difficult if you are still overseas but you might be able to talk to the existing employees to get an idea of what the school is really like.
When you are on the job be flexible and don't throw a hissy fit or show any undue emotion when something small happens that apparently isn't to your liking. Be diplomatic and not insistant. There's a way to deal with these people and it is in stark contrast to how we we brought up to handle those situations back home.
Also please be aware that any insult or slight of disrespect your boss percieves will result in retribution of some sort ranging from mild annoyances to really bad things depending on how much "face" he or she has percieved to be lost. Nitpicking is the common result, outright denial of requests is more severe, or in extreme cases - not paying or terminating an employee without paying the bonus. I've known many emplyees in bad hogwan situations who worked things out with their bosses and got though it. I've also known others who "pulled their lips" copped an attitude and suffered the consequences. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Zaria32
Joined: 04 Dec 2007
|
Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 4:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I worked for two different hogwons and was happy and well treated at
both. Neither tried, in any way, to take advantage of me or treat me
other than with respect. I left both schools with mutual respect.
I relied on my own evaluation of the manager/owner, and did not consider working for anyone who would not talk to me on the phone,
several times. People are pretty much the same the world over, although there are, of course, massive cultural differences. But what I mean is that
jerks are pretty much jerks in any culture, and the devious and dishonest are pretty much that in any culture. You can tell the difference... |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
ironclad80
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
|
Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks for the very detailed advice xing and zaria. I'm a pretty easy going person and it's unlikely I'd initiate any problems unless I wasn't getting paid or something.
So how did you guys find your jobs? Just checking the job board here? |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
WoBW
Joined: 07 Dec 2007 Location: HBC
|
Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I honestly don't know why people keep banging on about how great public school jobs are.
I worked in Korea for several years, and the one public school job I had was the worst job I ever had in Korea. It was misery. They fired me for having two days off when I was in intensive care in hospital with a brain hemorrhage
I'd take a hagwon anyday over a public school. Yeah, you get more holidays at a public school - you usually don't have to work weekends, but you have to deal with an army of kids. I'd much rather be in a room with a handful of adults than 30-40 kids, whatever the money and holidays.
If you are new to teaching, don't bother with EPIK, GEPIK, SMOE and so on. Go to a hagwon. They're not all bad. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
lilred
Joined: 09 May 2009 Location: Seoul, South Korea
|
Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Most of the jobs posted for Korean hagwon jobs are from recruiters so they don't tell you the names of the schools because they want to get their commission. Just tell the recruiter what you want and they can be pretty accommodating trying to find the right school for you. It's okay to get offered a contract and turn it down if it's not what you want. Just don't sign a contract or start the visa process then change your mind or you'll be screwed. I worked for YBM ECC for 4 years and it was fine. I never worked in Japan but I think Korea is great! |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
xingyiman
Joined: 12 Jan 2006
|
Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
WoBW wrote: |
I honestly don't know why people keep banging on about how great public school jobs are.
I worked in Korea for several years, and the one public school job I had was the worst job I ever had in Korea. It was misery. They fired me for having two days off when I was in intensive care in hospital with a brain hemorrhage
I'd take a hagwon anyday over a public school. Yeah, you get more holidays at a public school - you usually don't have to work weekends, but you have to deal with an army of kids. I'd much rather be in a room with a handful of adults than 30-40 kids, whatever the money and holidays.
If you are new to teaching, don't bother with EPIK, GEPIK, SMOE and so on. Go to a hagwon. They're not all bad. |
Ditto. Public school teachers (at least many on Dave's) seem to have that attitude. I never could figure out why seeing how they aren't making near what the majorithy of people working at hogwans are. I've also known some people who got the shaft at public schools just as bad as they talk about at hogwans. I still stand by my assertion that there are two sides to every bad hogwan story. I've known quite a few cases where teachers have got the shaft and about 1 out of every 10 I can honeslty say the employee was not at fault in some way. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
xingyiman
Joined: 12 Jan 2006
|
Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
ironclad80 wrote: |
Thanks for the very detailed advice xing and zaria. I'm a pretty easy going person and it's unlikely I'd initiate any problems unless I wasn't getting paid or something.
So how did you guys find your jobs? Just checking the job board here? |
The majority of my jobs I've gotten through my recruiters. A couple I actually did the footwork. Just check the place out. I have only worked at one job that ended prematurely but I got all my pay and help from the administration in locating a new job and making the transition. As a previous poster siad talk to the administration. You might be in a situation especially if you are dealing with a rural school that no one speaks any English. If thats the case I would definitley find a school where the boss spoke enough English so that you could understand each other.
The advantage of a recruiter is that they have a wide network of job opportunities that are not published on job boards. The downside of that is that recruiters will not always be truthful about things because they are trying to sell the job (ie. Telling you that a hogwan is in a town only 40 minutes from Seoul and it takes about 3 hours by bus.) |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Carla
Joined: 21 Nov 2008
|
Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I work for hagwons, I like the hagwons, and I've never had a problem with them (except 1 creepy guy, but there can be a creepy guy anywhere).
Now, don't get me wrong, there are some bad hagwons, but there are bad public schools too. It's just the luck of the draw.
I can say this from observations, hagwons are the two ends of the spectrum, while they can have some of the worst jobs, they can have some of the best jobs too. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Location: Retired
|
Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
xingyiman wrote: |
[
Ditto. Public school teachers (at least many on Dave's) seem to have that attitude. I never could figure out why seeing how they aren't making near what the majorithy of people working at hogwans are. . |
It depends. The majority of people working at hakwons seem to make in the 2-2.5 million a month range. However if you have several years of experience and certifications, plus you don't mind doing a little OT, you can easily pull 3 million/month at a public school. Getting that at a hakwon...you're going to be working like a dog six days a week...and that's if your employer doesn't pull any shady business. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
son of coco
Joined: 14 Mar 2008
|
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
xingyiman wrote: |
[
Ditto. Public school teachers (at least many on Dave's) seem to have that attitude. I never could figure out why seeing how they aren't making near what the majorithy of people working at hogwans are. . |
It depends. The majority of people working at hakwons seem to make in the 2-2.5 million a month range. However if you have several years of experience and certifications, plus you don't mind doing a little OT, you can easily pull 3 million/month at a public school. Getting that at a hakwon...you're going to be working like a dog six days a week...and that's if your employer doesn't pull any shady business. |
Yeah, I'm applying to a few private schools in Ulsan at the moment but have the fact that (without privates) I'll be making less money in the back of my mind. Take away the renewal bonus of 2 million won, possibly the pension (another 2 million), possibly the airfare if I'm already here looking for work - a mate got a job through being in Korea already but didn't get paid the airfare (1.3 million won), and as I do an extra week's summer and winter camps at my school and one other another 2 million won for that.
As far as I can see at a hagwon I'll get 2.1-2.3 million won a year, bonus at the end, maybe airfare, and that's about it. With other avenues to earn money I might make a little more but it's not guaranteed.
So 6-7.5 million won less is a lot to make up over the course of a year...on the other hand, my girlfriend may hate me for not coming to Ulsan to live with her. She is angry with me today about it for instance
Trying to explain that the money I miss out on is a car to drive around or over half a year's rent next year when we're in Australia doesn't seem to cut it. I'll undoubtedly get an offer from Ulsan in the next week which means I have to make a decision which has its low points either way.
Just want to relax, enjoy my last 9 days of this contract and have a great time in Australia for 3 weeks to be honest.  |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|