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If North Korea falls and South Korea opens up, would you...
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bassexpander



Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:31 am    Post subject: If North Korea falls and South Korea opens up, would you... Reply with quote

... fear for your bi-racial family? Would you worry about North Koreans hoping to take out their anger on foreigners (whether or not they truly are Americans, or not)?

I came across this quote (below), which is from a long time ago (1950's). Obviously, Koreans have made strides, but what will happen when North and South come together again? Or will we find ourselves having to leave, fearing for our families?

Will foreigners be able to stand around and watch the excitement as they did during the 2002 world cup? What about soon after, when reality sets in for South Koreans, and they come to realize how much they and their family will have to sacrifice to bring North Korea into the 21st century? Where will all of that excitement be channeled? We saw the nationalism channeled into an anti-US story about some children being run over by a tank back in 2002. What would happen if excessive pride caused a blame-the-foreigners situation to develop around here? I can seriously see this happening once North and South reunite. Some believe the split of North and South was caused by outside sources (nevermind the war launched by KJ il), and that South Koreans shouldn't have to pay for reconciliation. How would you and your bi-racial children deal with the growing anti-foreigner wave of Korean pride at school? At work?

Where will the pent-up emotions flow once Korea realizes the burden of cost involved in rebuilding the North, and that the rest of the world isn't going to pay for it all?

I thought of these things as I listened to my Korean colleague talk about how much North and South Korea need each other to become a great world economy. I've heard this echoed before. I have a feeling that a great many proud Koreans harbor such thoughts, and I wonder what effect woori-nara will have on my mixed-race family when waves of emotions take over.


Quote:

http://www.koreanwarbaby.com/2009/05/dr-bob-pierce-recruits-holts.html

�The Koreans are very race conscious,� Dr. Pierce said. �Mixed-race children will never be accepted into Korean society. Even the youngsters, themselves, are conscious of the difference. At a very early age they seem to sense that something is wrong.�


Last edited by bassexpander on Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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Junior



Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I often thought about this. Basically south Korea would be flooded overnight with economic migrants whose attitudes and beliefs are out of the stone age. Southerners caught up in patriotic fervour would seek to ally themselves with their northern brothers in every way. There would exist for a time a state of semi-lawlessness in which foreigners would become targets of attacks on the streets, and no police officer would lift a finger to ensure their safety.
Basically if reunification happens, time to head for the airport and not bother returning for another 20 years or so. This probably goes for all the vietnamese brides and their progeny as well.
Personally i'd probably stick around and risk it for a few days with my photographic gear.. to get lots of footage to sell to the worlds media.
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bassexpander



Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Junior wrote:
I often thought about this. Basically south Korea would be flooded overnight with economic migrants whose attitudes and beliefs are out of the stone age.


I don't think it would be flooded overnight. But actually, I'm not sure if I should fear North Koreans more, or South Koreans once this happens. For all we know, most North Koreans might love Americans/foreigners. They could even be crazy about wanting to learn English.

We've already seen some North Korean refugees who praised George Bush, hearing through outside news reports, realizing that he was the only person calling the North Korean gov't what it was. They actually had words of disgust for South Koreans, who turned a blind eye to the suffering of people up North, save for some food & goods shipments some have said often fed the Nork army first. (It's the former military/concentration camp guys who never let go of their love of collapsed country would be ones I would fear might attempt to kill me, my bi-racial child, or Korean wife for marrying me).

I do, however, expect that the initial pride of the whole event would be such a high that the reality check of the following low could prove to be quite nasty for foreigners living here.


**I will also ad that I hope the mods don't view this as something to be immediately deleted. And I hope that people can keep this thread civil. It's a serious issue some of us with mixed-raced families need to consider/possibly plan for.
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Ukon



Joined: 29 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For starters, I never understood the "flood of refugees" argument....unless they plan on traveling across the heavily forrested and landmined DMZ which will likely be inhabited by post-collapse bandits.

The only way north koreans would be able to travel en masse to the south would be via boat....and few North koreans can actually swim...

I assume most of them will stay put and dine on food aid....US food aid.....a hungry man is an easily swayed man....
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benji1422



Joined: 02 Jun 2009
Location: Los Angeles & Seoul

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a retarded thread, full of the same kind of racism and xenophobia is proports to rally against.

First off, if you did even a 5 minute google search on Korean unification you would know that billions of dollars are being spent by ROK and US military on contingency plans to prevent refugees from streaming across the border in the event of a regime collapse. In essence the border will be closed with limited travel back and forth and it will be similar to Hong Kong/China, and not West/East Germany in 1989

2nd, if you bothered to keep up with changing trends (instead of quoting articles from 50 years ago), you'd know that multi-culturalism/racial problems is a hot topic now that 1/3 of all marriages in the countryside are to foreigners (korean men marrying Vietnamese/Chinese women). The idea of a KKK/yob uprising is a fantasy that could only be conjured up by someone who is steeped in the racial politics and violence of North America/England/Australia...
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GwangjuParents



Joined: 31 Oct 2008

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sometimes the comedy really writes itself on this board.

And that's why I keep coming back Laughing
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jvalmer



Joined: 06 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The North will become a huge factory with cheap labour for SK companies. That's how the North will catchup to the South income wise. Inflation in the North would be high and income levels and infrastructure will take about a generation to catch up (maybe 10-25 years). I think the average SK citizen would want them caught up as fast as possible. Korean, with a few American, construction companies will make a killing developing the north.

This would however leave a lot of lower skilled people in the south in a bind and the foreign factory workers would either have to go back home or stay around and "scrounge" for money. Good chance in a big increase in non-violent crime like pick-pocketing and stealing.

The US army will probably stick around for a while, and probably will stay south of the DMZ in order to keep China happy.
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mc_jc



Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Location: C4B- Cp Red Cloud, Area-I

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
...you would know that billions of dollars are being spent by ROK and US military on contingency plans to prevent refugees from streaming across the border in the event of a regime collapse.


That is not exactly true.
The US and China signed a bilateral agreement during the last 6-party talks in which states that the CFC/UNC would not deploy troops north of the 38th Parallel.
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Troutslayer



Joined: 03 Oct 2009
Location: Dark Side of the Moon

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
full of the same kind of racism and xenophobia is proports to rally against.



How so? How is discussing refugee displacement, economic speculation and possible cultural shifts represent racism?


Oh...Koreans are not a race.


slayer of trout
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shamham



Joined: 29 Jul 2009

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you'll see a lot of Korean men eager to have North Korean women for wives. Very eager. These women would be extremely traditional, which would appeal to a lot of K-guys.

There's also a view that North Korean women are 'especially beautiful.' My wife told me this once, as an offhand statement of 'fact' that she didn't think twice about.

I don't know, I'd think a wave of SK men marrying traditional NK women would have some affect on Korean society. I wonder what it would mean for issues like women's rights and xenophobia? Would it mean nothing at all? Or would the current 'buyer's market' for SK women that's sent so many rural guys looking for Vietnam brides change overnight?

Not positing good or bad on this, but I agree that it's food for thought on many fronts.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jvalmer wrote:

This would however leave a lot of lower skilled people in the south in a bind and the foreign factory workers would either have to go back home or stay around and "scrounge" for money. Good chance in a big increase in non-violent crime like pick-pocketing and stealing.


This sounds about right. Foreigner victims of crime would be in the pickpocketing/fraud/taxi driver driving off with your luggage style, not some kristallnacht. Sure there'd be some NK farmer who'd flip at the sight of an interracial couple, but he'd be an exception not a rule.

Money trumps anger.

For every one South Korean person that'd see that guy and think"good for him" there'd be 5 that would look at him like "you ignorant Peasant" and would explain how 'things are different here'. The SKs would try to present themselves as more cosmopolitan to that random NK stranger. One of those weird psychological power things.

The North Koreans would be too worried about food and looking up family connections and perhaps settling scores amongst each other to worry about foreigners. The South Koreans would be looking up family as well and trying to make a buck off the whole situation.

Sorry folks, we are not the center of Koreans' lives.

It's scary how many FTs I talk to predict that in the event of an NK-SK war/reunification how things would turn into this apocalyptic scenario for foreigners. Truly ludicrous is the idea that somehow the Korean people would ditch the Starbucks and Louis Vuitton to go and side with Kim Jong Il's legions. These same people are the ones who talk about Kim Jong Il's magic tunnels where his million man army (of course to these people every one of them is infantry- what's logistics?) will pour out while his 20,000 nukes rain down.
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tiger fancini



Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Location: Testicles for Eyes

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GwangjuParents wrote:
Sometimes the comedy really writes itself on this board.

And that's why I keep coming back Laughing


+1
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bassexpander



Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:


It's scary how many FTs I talk to predict that in the event of an NK-SK war/reunification how things would turn into this apocalyptic scenario for foreigners. Truly ludicrous is the idea that somehow the Korean people would ditch the Starbucks and Louis Vuitton to go and side with Kim Jong Il's legions. These same people are the ones who talk about Kim Jong Il's magic tunnels where his million man army (of course to these people every one of them is infantry- what's logistics?) will pour out while his 20,000 nukes rain down.


Sorry, but nobody is talking about South Koreans ditching Starbucks and Louis Vuitton. Pretty poor attempt, strawman.

What I am saying is that I forsee "urinara" getting out of hand. Those of us who are long-timers have seen what happens when excessive amounts of national pride with nowhere to go is so easily manipulated for political gains in a power struggle.

Just sit back and talk to several Koreans about whether or not it will be good for the country for North and South to come together. You'll get some interesting, and varied answers -- many of which follow an odd "we're going to be the next world superpower" tone of world domination. It's almost creepy.

Only they don't seem to take into account that North Koreans might not just roll over and let the South rape all of their natural resources in order for rich Southerners to build Hyundais and LED TV's for the world. That alone could spark a fresh batch of problems.
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cdninkorea



Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Junior wrote:
Basically south Korea would be flooded overnight with economic migrants whose attitudes and beliefs are out of the stone age.

As other poster said, no they wouldn't. They wouldn't be allowed to move around freely, at least not right away.

Junior wrote:
Southerners caught up in patriotic fervour would seek to ally themselves with their northern brothers in every way.

South Koreans discriminate against the North Koreans like crazy. Have you read about how NK refugees are treated here? It's not good.

Junior wrote:
There would exist for a time a state of semi-lawlessness in which foreigners would become targets of attacks on the streets, and no police officer would lift a finger to ensure their safety.

I have to wonder how you came to this conclusion. Care to share your premises?
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bassexpander



Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

benji1422 wrote:
This is a retarded thread, full of the same kind of racism and xenophobia is proports to rally against.



Actually, it is a discussion about racism, only the concerns here are for the minority half-Koreans and foreigners within a post-reconciliation environment. The ones who would be racist in this hypothetical situation, and thus causing concern, would be a part of the full-blooded Korean population.

Are you saying it's wrong for minorities to discuss racism?
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