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enochyoo
Joined: 23 Aug 2009
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 Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:44 am Post subject: |
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I'm not sure shaming them would be the best way. I think it would honestly make it worse for foreign teachers. Don't forget Koreans are prideful people.
Who knows? Perhaps it'll backfire and the hiring process will become more of a beeeeeeep** than it is for foreigners |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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Given all the griping about bureaucracy and paperwork I shudder to think what posters think if they tried to open a business back in their native countries. You think an annual AIDS test is an annoying inconvenience? Try getting 500 forms filled out to operate a restaurant or a repair shop. Welcome to the big boy world.
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| If i had AIDS why on earth would i want to spend my dying days teaching spoilt asian brats? |
Gee, given your level of anger, one has to wonder why you're spending your healthy days teaching spoiled asian brats.
| lifeinkorea wrote: |
Regardless if you have AIDS or not, you might not get paid at the end of the month. I think there are bigger fish to fry here.
Let's address things like sticking to contract terms (yes, I am talking about employers), paying on time, and living arrangements whether it be after or near the end of a contract so a teacher can better transition to another job. |
well said.
My contract did not have clauses on no racism from the general public or requirements that the Korea Times not publish ridiculous tripe. I am not here to be fawned over by Koreans. I am here to make money.
| winterwawa wrote: |
| Once again you have shown your ignorance of the issue at hand. The fact that this fringe group exists at all, and that they have helped influence policy making is something that every white person living in Korea should be worried about. |
Every white person? Those laws affect people of all colors as well as people of Korean descent.
But thanks for that 'every white person' bit, really shows that you ARE concerned about all of us and not just out for your own interests. Way to get the Bruthas and the Esses and the Orien-tals on your side.
As for showing ignorance in an issue....
| Quote: |
| If Facebook can get rid of a poll about whether people thought Obama should be assassinated, I think Naver can limit what Anti-Spectrum is allowed to post, it is not that difficult. Their just has to be the will to do it. |
It would be nice, but Search Engines are a different animal than a Facebook/Cyworld whathaveyou.
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| If Koreans were being targetted in Canada, you can be sure it wouldn't be left up to Koreans to defend themselves. Countless individuals, civil rights organizations, politicians, church leaders, university organizations etc. would be speaking up for them. Not here. |
Can't speak for Canada but the L.A. Riots sure fit the description of being left to defend themselves, and this wasn't from some 17,000 member hate rag it was defending themselves from looters and rioters.
Not to mention all the countless anti-immigrant orgs. in every developed country. These things just happen.
Quoted response of mine to Mithrae's other hysteria thread:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=169851&start=30
| Quote: |
Wasn't Ben Wagner involved with ATEK?
If you are going to send that report you might want to send a condensed version. I see the average editor taking one look at that, reading it for about 30 seconds, scrolling to see how long it is and then ditching it for some story about Rihanna.
By the way I'm sure the many African-Americans back home in the States will be real keen on the 'horror' stories about being constantly depicted as a criminal via the media. Join the line behind Arab-Americans, Palestinians in Israel, Muslims in Europe, Mexicans in the border states, People with long hair, people with tattoos, people with shaved heads, people who wear baggy clothes, people who wear black, and teenagers who walk into mini-marts.
Yes, its wrong and unfair, but at some point you have to say, welcome to real life. The terms of this job- drug tests, AIDS tests were made known before you signed. The slightest bit of research would have told you that Korean teachers in Korea are exempt from some of these things. If you had a problem with that you could have stayed at home and continued working at your place of employment there.
To say nothing about the countless teachers who work here and enjoy their jobs and don't feel like they are viewed as criminals. I'm glad that you feel
Every nation views immigrants as potential criminals, that's why we have baggage checks and your name gets scanned through databases when you enter another country.
Don't worry, I've prepared a cover letter we can all send to the editors of our local newspaper.
"Dear Mr. Editor, as an English Teacher in Korea I am writing to inform you of the oppressive racism that exists in this country for non-Koreans working as English Teachers. I'm sure you already now about it, this is after all, the biggest story out there, well at least to all of the people I talk to. Here is my tragedy- As per the terms of this contract, I was tested for HIV and Drugs, at which point I was provided with a furnished apartment and a salary of 2.3 million won/month (tax-free). Did you know that the Korean teachers are not required to take this test, nor are they provided with furnished apartments AND they have to pay taxes? This is so racist! Against foreigners, that is. In fact there is this fringe hate-group out there called the Anti-English Spectrum (This is the one part that might catch their eye- be sure to include some swastika-esque logo and a burning American flag pic) that believes that foreigners should be kicked out. They are so influential that Pro-American President Lee Myung-Bak won the most recent Presidential Election here. Me and my fellow teachers are constantly portrayed as potential pedophiles, totally unlike teachers in America! I would greatly appreciate it if you would postpone putting that article on Record High Unemployment & Foreclosures, Darfur, and that article where Obama calls for funding to provide free AIDS tests in Africa, and that story about the local factory closing on the front page and instead focus on a real tragedy- My AIDS test! Sincerely, Mr. Employed Teacher" |
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VFRinterceptor
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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According to an article in the New York Times, many people have found out that President Obama has recently announced that he would be nullifying the ban that prevented people with the HIV virus from entering the United States.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/31/us/politics/31travel.html |
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Mithrae
Joined: 22 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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Many of you (especially Steelrails) have not taken the time to read the report. Your commentaries, therefore, are way off base. This is not about the AIDS test per se. No reasonable person is against public health preventative efforts. I have no objection to taking an AIDS tests - so long as everyone else is taking one. If my good friend Min ho, born and raised in Canada, doesn't have to take an AIDS test to get a Korean work visa (because he's of Korean ancestry), then we know this isn't about preserving the public health. It's about something else.
Read the report. If you can't take the time to read it, then surely you don't have the time to offer lengthy posts about it. Less time posting, more time reading.
Sheeesh.
Last edited by Mithrae on Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:59 am; edited 1 time in total |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Mithrae wrote: |
Many of you (especially Steelrails) have not taken the time to read the report. Your commentaries, therefore, are way off base. This is not about the AIDS test per se. No reasonable person is against public health preventative efforts. I have no objection to taking an AIDS tests - so long as everyone else is taking one. If my good friend Min ho, born and raised in Canada, doesn't have to take an AIDS test to get his E-2 visa because he's of Korean ancestry, then we know this isn't about preserving the public health. It's about something else.
Read the report. If you can't take the time to read it, then surely you don't have the time to offer lengthy posts about it. Less time posting, more time reading.
Sheeesh. |
Since this report was posted last year, I should think everyone has had time to read it...and dismiss it as the fear-mongering it is.
And your good friend Min-ho WOULD have to take the AIDS test regardless of Korean ancestry...which is something people have been trying to drum into your head. Here is it again.
ALL E-2 visa holders, REGARDLESS OF KOREAN ANCESTRY or ANYTHING ELSE, must take the AIDS test.
The AIDS test is required to OBTAIN an E-2 visa. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:33 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Mithrae wrote: |
Many of you (especially Steelrails) have not taken the time to read the report. Your commentaries, therefore, are way off base. This is not about the AIDS test per se. No reasonable person is against public health preventative efforts. I have no objection to taking an AIDS tests - so long as everyone else is taking one. If my good friend Min ho, born and raised in Canada, doesn't have to take an AIDS test to get his E-2 visa because he's of Korean ancestry, then we know this isn't about preserving the public health. It's about something else.
Read the report. If you can't take the time to read it, then surely you don't have the time to offer lengthy posts about it. Less time posting, more time reading.
Sheeesh. |
Since this report was posted last year, I should think everyone has had time to read it...and dismiss it as the fear-mongering it is.
And your good friend Min-ho WOULD have to take the AIDS test regardless of Korean ancestry...which is something people have been trying to drum into your head. Here is it again.
ALL E-2 visa holders, REGARDLESS OF KOREAN ANCESTRY or ANYTHING ELSE, must take the AIDS test.
The AIDS test is required to OBTAIN an E-2 visa. |
TUM...you make a good point about the datedness of this issue.
As for little Min-ho...most likely just be getting an F4 visa, yes?
Again...just a different kettle of fish.
Somebody get another drum to bang.  |
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winterwawa
Joined: 06 May 2007
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| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:48 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
Given all the griping about bureaucracy and paperwork I shudder to think what posters think if they tried to open a business back in their native countries. You think an annual AIDS test is an annoying inconvenience? Try getting 500 forms filled out to operate a restaurant or a repair shop. Welcome to the big boy world.
| Quote: |
| If i had AIDS why on earth would i want to spend my dying days teaching spoilt asian brats? |
Gee, given your level of anger, one has to wonder why you're spending your healthy days teaching spoiled asian brats.
| lifeinkorea wrote: |
Regardless if you have AIDS or not, you might not get paid at the end of the month. I think there are bigger fish to fry here.
Let's address things like sticking to contract terms (yes, I am talking about employers), paying on time, and living arrangements whether it be after or near the end of a contract so a teacher can better transition to another job. |
well said.
My contract did not have clauses on no racism from the general public or requirements that the Korea Times not publish ridiculous tripe. I am not here to be fawned over by Koreans. I am here to make money.
| winterwawa wrote: |
| Once again you have shown your ignorance of the issue at hand. The fact that this fringe group exists at all, and that they have helped influence policy making is something that every white person living in Korea should be worried about. |
Every white person? Those laws affect people of all colors as well as people of Korean descent.
But thanks for that 'every white person' bit, really shows that you ARE concerned about all of us and not just out for your own interests. Way to get the Bruthas and the Esses and the Orien-tals on your side.
As for showing ignorance in an issue....
| Quote: |
| If Facebook can get rid of a poll about whether people thought Obama should be assassinated, I think Naver can limit what Anti-Spectrum is allowed to post, it is not that difficult. Their just has to be the will to do it. |
It would be nice, but Search Engines are a different animal than a Facebook/Cyworld whathaveyou.
| Quote: |
| If Koreans were being targetted in Canada, you can be sure it wouldn't be left up to Koreans to defend themselves. Countless individuals, civil rights organizations, politicians, church leaders, university organizations etc. would be speaking up for them. Not here. |
Can't speak for Canada but the L.A. Riots sure fit the description of being left to defend themselves, and this wasn't from some 17,000 member hate rag it was defending themselves from looters and rioters.
Not to mention all the countless anti-immigrant orgs. in every developed country. These things just happen.
Quoted response of mine to Mithrae's other hysteria thread:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=169851&start=30
| Quote: |
Wasn't Ben Wagner involved with ATEK?
If you are going to send that report you might want to send a condensed version. I see the average editor taking one look at that, reading it for about 30 seconds, scrolling to see how long it is and then ditching it for some story about Rihanna.
By the way I'm sure the many African-Americans back home in the States will be real keen on the 'horror' stories about being constantly depicted as a criminal via the media. Join the line behind Arab-Americans, Palestinians in Israel, Muslims in Europe, Mexicans in the border states, People with long hair, people with tattoos, people with shaved heads, people who wear baggy clothes, people who wear black, and teenagers who walk into mini-marts.
Yes, its wrong and unfair, but at some point you have to say, welcome to real life. The terms of this job- drug tests, AIDS tests were made known before you signed. The slightest bit of research would have told you that Korean teachers in Korea are exempt from some of these things. If you had a problem with that you could have stayed at home and continued working at your place of employment there.
To say nothing about the countless teachers who work here and enjoy their jobs and don't feel like they are viewed as criminals. I'm glad that you feel
Every nation views immigrants as potential criminals, that's why we have baggage checks and your name gets scanned through databases when you enter another country.
Don't worry, I've prepared a cover letter we can all send to the editors of our local newspaper.
"Dear Mr. Editor, as an English Teacher in Korea I am writing to inform you of the oppressive racism that exists in this country for non-Koreans working as English Teachers. I'm sure you already now about it, this is after all, the biggest story out there, well at least to all of the people I talk to. Here is my tragedy- As per the terms of this contract, I was tested for HIV and Drugs, at which point I was provided with a furnished apartment and a salary of 2.3 million won/month (tax-free). Did you know that the Korean teachers are not required to take this test, nor are they provided with furnished apartments AND they have to pay taxes? This is so racist! Against foreigners, that is. In fact there is this fringe hate-group out there called the Anti-English Spectrum (This is the one part that might catch their eye- be sure to include some swastika-esque logo and a burning American flag pic) that believes that foreigners should be kicked out. They are so influential that Pro-American President Lee Myung-Bak won the most recent Presidential Election here. Me and my fellow teachers are constantly portrayed as potential pedophiles, totally unlike teachers in America! I would greatly appreciate it if you would postpone putting that article on Record High Unemployment & Foreclosures, Darfur, and that article where Obama calls for funding to provide free AIDS tests in Africa, and that story about the local factory closing on the front page and instead focus on a real tragedy- My AIDS test! Sincerely, Mr. Employed Teacher" |
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To want laws are you referring? I was talking about the Anti-English Cafe, which targets WHITE ENGLISH TEACHERS. Hense the every white person comment. As Mithrae wrote, I doubt you even took the time to read the article.
TheUrbanMyth, As The Cosmic Hum pointed out no-one with Korean ancestry will ever need an E2 VISA. Even those with only one Korean parent qualify for an F4, so they would be exempt from the E2 laws that affect all other English teachers. If you are going to shout the laws in your text, please make sure you KNOW the law. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| To want laws are you referring? I was talking about the Anti-English Cafe, which targets WHITE ENGLISH TEACHERS. Hense the every white person comment. As Mithrae wrote, I doubt you even took the time to read the article. |
So if some black guy was walking around with a K-Chick it would be cool with the Anti- English group? If some Japanese guy was with some Korean girl it would be fine?
Great, you read the article, but a little bit of critical thinking would make you realize that people of other backgrounds draw the same wrath.
As for Wagner's article (again, ATEK link) 100 pages about the fact that there is a hate group on the internet  and why the AIDS tests are discriminatory (biggest whine of the century)
| Quote: |
| TheUrbanMyth, As The Cosmic Hum pointed out no-one with Korean ancestry will ever need an E2 VISA. Even those with only one Korean parent qualify for an F4, so they would be exempt from the E2 laws that affect all other English teachers. If you are going to shout the laws in your text, please make sure you KNOW the law. |
And before you lecture people on what VISAs they do or do not have (who are YOU to say such things?) try talking to them first. Lot's are here on E-2s. Take for example adoptees- A lot of them don't have the necessary records and paperwork to file for F-Series VISAs. Some (both kyopos and adoptees) had parents who did not want them to visit Korea and so would not release the paperwork.
http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/01/23/20-being-an-expert-on-your-culture/
| Quote: |
| No reasonable person is against public health preventative efforts. I have no objection to taking an AIDS tests - so long as everyone else is taking one. |
Then you care more about your image then public health efforts. If you truly cared you would be fine taking the test regardless of whether or not other people do. An AIDS test is part of one's public health responsibility. Whether or not other people are being responsible is irrelevant. What is relevant is my responsibility. My responsibility is to take that AIDS test.
| Quote: |
| If my good friend Min ho, born and raised in Canada, doesn't have to take an AIDS test to get a Korean work visa (because he's of Korean ancestry), then we know this isn't about preserving the public health. It's about something else. |
Frankly, I don't care if I have to take an AIDS test and someone else doesn't. I also don't care if it's racism that prompted that law. Racism prompted temperance laws and drug laws, they're a fact of life. Deal with it. I knew the terms of the agreement before I signed. I knew that Koreans born in Korea did not have to take it. My time to object was before I signed that paper.
I'm not here to right every wrong with Korean society. I'm here to get paid and have a fun time. I think the best way to right wrongs is just to go out and make friends with the locals and interact. If I walk around in a storm of anger over the AIDS test that interferes with my fun time. I'm going to let it go. The AES doesn't hound me or my friends. When I walk the streets of Korea there is no wave of fear gripping the foreign population.
You know once you make friends with the locals and get introduced to that girl, then when drunken ajosshi comes up and harasses you you'll have a group that will get upset at him and tell him to buzz off. The act of them 'backing' you over 'him' does more to progress this society. Why? Because its of their own choice and not the result of 20,000 English teachers whining and signing petitions and acting like a bunch of know-it-alls to the locals (which will get nothing done except rouse more anger).
You don't beat hysteria with hysteria. You beat it with calm and charisma. |
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winterwawa
Joined: 06 May 2007
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| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Quote: |
| To want laws are you referring? I was talking about the Anti-English Cafe, which targets WHITE ENGLISH TEACHERS. Hense the every white person comment. As Mithrae wrote, I doubt you even took the time to read the article. |
So if some black guy was walking around with a K-Chick it would be cool with the Anti- English group? If some Japanese guy was with some Korean girl it would be fine?
Great, you read the article, but a little bit of critical thinking would make you realize that people of other backgrounds draw the same wrath.
As for Wagner's article (again, ATEK link) 100 pages about the fact that there is a hate group on the internet and why the AIDS tests are discriminatory (biggest whine of the century)
| Quote: |
| TheUrbanMyth, As The Cosmic Hum pointed out no-one with Korean ancestry will ever need an E2 VISA. Even those with only one Korean parent qualify for an F4, so they would be exempt from the E2 laws that affect all other English teachers. If you are going to shout the laws in your text, please make sure you KNOW the law. |
And before you lecture people on what VISAs they do or do not have (who are YOU to say such things?) try talking to them first. Lot's are here on E-2s. Take for example adoptees- A lot of them don't have the necessary records and paperwork to file for F-Series VISAs. Some (both kyopos and adoptees) had parents who did not want them to visit Korea and so would not release the paperwork.
http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/01/23/20-being-an-expert-on-your-culture/
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| No reasonable person is against public health preventative efforts. I have no objection to taking an AIDS tests - so long as everyone else is taking one. |
Then you care more about your image then public health efforts. If you truly cared you would be fine taking the test regardless of whether or not other people do. An AIDS test is part of one's public health responsibility. Whether or not other people are being responsible is irrelevant. What is relevant is my responsibility. My responsibility is to take that AIDS test.
| Quote: |
| If my good friend Min ho, born and raised in Canada, doesn't have to take an AIDS test to get a Korean work visa (because he's of Korean ancestry), then we know this isn't about preserving the public health. It's about something else. |
Frankly, I don't care if I have to take an AIDS test and someone else doesn't. I also don't care if it's racism that prompted that law. Racism prompted temperance laws and drug laws, they're a fact of life. Deal with it. I knew the terms of the agreement before I signed. I knew that Koreans born in Korea did not have to take it. My time to object was before I signed that paper.
I'm not here to right every wrong with Korean society. I'm here to get paid and have a fun time. I think the best way to right wrongs is just to go out and make friends with the locals and interact. If I walk around in a storm of anger over the AIDS test that interferes with my fun time. I'm going to let it go. The AES doesn't hound me or my friends. When I walk the streets of Korea there is no wave of fear gripping the foreign population.
You know once you make friends with the locals and get introduced to that girl, then when drunken ajosshi comes up and harasses you you'll have a group that will get upset at him and tell him to buzz off. The act of them 'backing' you over 'him' does more to progress this society. Why? Because its of their own choice and not the result of 20,000 English teachers whining and signing petitions and acting like a bunch of know-it-alls to the locals (which will get nothing done except rouse more anger).
You don't beat hysteria with hysteria. You beat it with calm and charisma. |
Steelrails, you make a good point about black people, but in my experience, if the guy looks Asian, he experiences less BS than people of other races.
As for adoptes, they fall under a completely different set of rules. It is my understanding that once adopted they are no longer considered Korean and it is almost impossible to trace their roots (almost). But IF they ARE able to trace their roots and obtain their family register, they can get an F4. I personally know one adopte that is working at a university in Daejeon that is on an F4.
If a person gives up their Korean nationality through marriage or an extended stay in a foreign country, they DO NOT HAVE TO GET AN E2 VISA to teach here. I know, I HAVE TALKED to gyopos who are teaching here. I have also talked to gyopos who are doing things other than teaching. They are on F4 VISA. So, to compare adoptes, to those who willingly gave up their Korean citizenship is like comparing apples to oranges.
You apparently are here for the money, which is fine. I don't know how long you have been here, but I have been here 12 years and plan to be here longer. So, for you racism is OKAY. Use your charisma, make you money and then leave. Unlike you and others like you, there are a few of us who would like to see Korea change for the better, not just for the white guys, but for all.
There are things that I am doing that have nothing to do with hysteria, like working within the system to get places like the Emergency Support Center for Migrant Women to change their name to Emergency Support Center for Migrant Workers and for them to provide help and support for men as well as women. They currently only help women in need, but their are foreign men in Korea who also need the type of help and support they provide.
And while the AES does not hound you, or me for that matter, they DO influence Koreans and, according to what I read, government policy. Maybe you think that is okay. I for one do not. I don't plan to go into hysteria, but if there is a way to shut this group down, then I will work to do so.
From my perspective, you are either part of the problem, or you are part of the solution. Given your statements so far, you seem to be part of the problem, so have your fun, make your money and go back to where ever you are from. Just don't do anything stupid that will draw more negative attention to foreigners while you are in Korea. And please don't marry a Korean, that alone would be enough to open your eyes to what Korea is really like. I'd hate to have your little bubble busted.
Finally, temperance laws and drug laws were created because of racism. Where did that come from? |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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| but in my experience, if the guy looks Asian, he experiences less BS than people of other races. |
Clearly your experience is limited. I will say that if anything causes race to be thrown out the window (at least from the family's perspective) its wealth. "I'm marrying an Arab guy.""How dare you!" "He has 200 million dollars" "My son!"
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| I know, I HAVE TALKED to gyopos who are teaching here. I have also talked to gyopos who are doing things other than teaching. They are on F4 VISA. So, to compare adoptes, to those who willingly gave up their Korean citizenship is like comparing apples to oranges. |
There are plenty of gyopos who are on F-series. There are plenty of gyopos on E-Series. The point is that the E-series gyopos still have to do the drug tests. Heck even the F-Series have to take the test as well.
As an F-series who had to take the drug/HIV test it just baffles me that people come on here and say "Ethnic Koreans don't have to take the drug/HIV test" Can we please just acknowledge that people who are Korean DO have to take those tests. This isn't racial, it's nativist. They are similar but distinctly different. Like Taco Flavor Doritos vs. Nacho Cheese.
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| I know, I HAVE TALKED to gyopos who are teaching here. I have also talked to gyopos who are doing things other than teaching. They are on F4 VISA. So, to compare adoptes, to those who willingly gave up their Korean citizenship is like comparing apples to oranges. |
Well I guess this is just a philosophical difference. I tolerate a group like the AES because if they get shut down, the next time around my group might get shut down.
If the AES gets shut down the tit or tat will result in Dave's getting blocked. I for one am comfortable that our side will win in the free-exchange of ideas, so long as it IS a free-exchange. Remember, right is on our side. We can afford to be patient and calm. Groups like that have a tendency to collapse on themselves and self-destruct. Aggressively going after then only breeds sympathy for them.
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| From my perspective, you are either part of the problem, or you are part of the solution. |
Well you are free to think that solution to THIS problem is strenuous activism (don't get me wrong, this works on other issues- i.e. Domestic Violence) but I for one think that a big part of the solution is just going out and making friends with the locals. Not looking down on their culture and acting like a well-behaved nice person.
If any sort of activism is going to 'help our cause' it will be found with teachers enthusiastically complying with the AIDS test (Yes, we care about your kids, and we have nothing to hide) and rather than trying to get websites shut down, do something positive like a mass organized trash pick up or some other large-scale community service. However, I am fairly certain that filing law-suits over HIV tests is not going to win us much sympathy.
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| Finally, Racism temperance laws and drug laws were created because of racism. Where did that come from? |
Not sure if your question was rhetorical or not, but I'll treat it as non. You do realize that a lot of temperance and anti-narcotics laws are the result of hysteria over "negro jazz musicians" and "Mexicans", right? That doesn't mean Heroin shouldn't be illegal or that closing bars at 2AM is a bad idea.
Or rather, I don't care that Bolingbroke usurped the thrown illegitimately. I care about the fact that Prince Hal is a good Sovereign.
I don't care that the HIV law is the result of AES stupidity. I care about the fact that it is a sound precaution for stopping the transmission of a dangerous disease. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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| winterwawa wrote: |
[qu
TheUrbanMyth, As The Cosmic Hum pointed out no-one with Korean ancestry will ever need an E2 VISA. Even those with only one Korean parent qualify for an F4, so they would be exempt from the E2 laws that affect all other English teachers. If you are going to shout the laws in your text, please make sure you KNOW the law. |
Perhaps you should read what was written before posting nonsense and then getting humiliated? I bolded the relevant part so you can understand more easily.
Mithrae wrote "If my good friend Min ho, born and raised in Canada, doesn't have to take an AIDS test to get his E-2 visa..."
ALL E-2 visa holders have to take the AIDS test, regardless of ancestry. Now if Min ho had done his homework and gotten a F-series he wouldn't have to.
And as other people have pointed out, there ARE gyopos here who are on the E-2 visa...I know a couple myself.
I wish people would get it through their skulls that simply being of Korean ancestry DOES NOT GUARANTEE you a F-series visa...you have to PROVE IT. If for whatever reason you can not, or it is too much of a headache, then a E-2 visa would be the fall-back option |
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winterwawa
Joined: 06 May 2007
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| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
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| but in my experience, if the guy looks Asian, he experiences less BS than people of other races. |
Clearly your experience is limited. I will say that if anything causes race to be thrown out the window (at least from the family's perspective) its wealth. "I'm marrying an Arab guy.""How dare you!" "He has 200 million dollars" "My son!" |
And your comparisons are flawed. I wasn't talking about family acceptance or money. What I was talking about is the fact that if a guy is walking down the street with a K-girl and he looks asian (Japanese, Vietnamese ect) the couple is less likely to get stares and racists remarks thrown at them.
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| I know, I HAVE TALKED to gyopos who are teaching here. I have also talked to gyopos who are doing things other than teaching. They are on F4 VISA. So, to compare adoptes, to those who willingly gave up their Korean citizenship is like comparing apples to oranges. |
| Steelrails wrote: |
There are plenty of gyopos who are on F-series. There are plenty of gyopos on E-Series. The point is that the E-series gyopos still have to do the drug tests. Heck even the F-Series have to take the test as well.
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Yes, I know there are gyopos here on E2 VISA and yes they had to take the test. Happy??
| Steelrails wrote: |
As an F-series who had to take the drug/HIV test it just baffles me that people come on here and say "Ethnic Koreans don't have to take the drug/HIV test" Can we please just acknowledge that people who are Korean DO have to take those tests. This isn't racial, it's nativist. They are similar but distinctly different. Like Taco Flavor Doritos vs. Nacho Cheese. |
You have an F series VISA and had to take the AIDS test to get the VISA? I kinda doubt it. If you are telling the truth you are the first person on an F VISA that has been forced to take the AIDS test. I am on my second F2 VISA and I didn't have to take the AIDS test, and I am applying for an F5 and there has been no mention of an AIDS test or any other medical test. If you had to take the test I would guess it was because you WERE on an E2 and then got married and got an F2.
| Quote: |
| I know, I HAVE TALKED to gyopos who are teaching here. I have also talked to gyopos who are doing things other than teaching. They are on F4 VISA. So, to compare adoptes, to those who willingly gave up their Korean citizenship is like comparing apples to oranges. |
| Steelrails wrote: |
Well I guess this is just a philosophical difference. I tolerate a group like the AES because if they get shut down, the next time around my group might get shut down.
If the AES gets shut down the tit or tat will result in Dave's getting blocked. I for one am comfortable that our side will win in the free-exchange of ideas, so long as it IS a free-exchange. Remember, right is on our side. We can afford to be patient and calm. Groups like that have a tendency to collapse on themselves and self-destruct. Aggressively going after then only breeds sympathy for them.
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Being right is not always enough. The blacks in America were right, but to get the rights they have today they had to fight for them. If they had taken your attitude, slavery would still exist in America and the black man would still be sitting in the back of the bus.
Likewise, women's rights exist today because women fought for them. History is full of examples of people who had right on their side and lost land, life and liberty because they did nothing but talk.
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| From my perspective, you are either part of the problem, or you are part of the solution. |
| Steelrails wrote: |
Well you are free to think that solution to THIS problem is strenuous activism (don't get me wrong, this works on other issues- i.e. Domestic Violence) but I for one think that a big part of the solution is just going out and making friends with the locals. Not looking down on their culture and acting like a well-behaved nice person.
If any sort of activism is going to 'help our cause' it will be found with teachers enthusiastically complying with the AIDS test (Yes, we care about your kids, and we have nothing to hide) and rather than trying to get websites shut down, do something positive like a mass organized trash pick up or some other large-scale community service. However, I am fairly certain that filing law-suits over HIV tests is not going to win us much sympathy. |
I never said anything about the kind of activism you are accusing me of. And I have made friends with the "locals." I comply with the laws and work within them. And I don't look down on Korea or it's culture, but I also don't tolerate open bigotry.
I wonder, do you practice what you preach or are you all talk. When was the last time you did more than have fun while making money.
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| Finally, Racism temperance laws and drug laws were created because of racism. Where did that come from? |
| Steelrails wrote: |
Not sure if your question was rhetorical or not, but I'll treat it as non. You do realize that a lot of temperance and anti-narcotics laws are the result of hysteria over "negro jazz musicians" and "Mexicans", right? That doesn't mean Heroin shouldn't be illegal or that closing bars at 2AM is a bad idea. |
First I have heard of this. A source to back up what you claim would be nice.
| Steelrails wrote: |
Or rather, I don't care that Bolingbroke usurped the thrown illegitimately. I care about the fact that Prince Hal is a good Sovereign.
I don't care that the HIV law is the result of AES stupidity. I care about the fact that it is a sound precaution for stopping the transmission of a dangerous disease. |
It is not the HIV law I am against. What I am against is the implications that HIV is a problem that was brought to Korea by foreigners. And that is what this law is all about. It has nothing to do with stopping the transmission of a dangerous disease. If stopping the transmission of a dangerous disease was the real goal, the K-government would also require all Koreans who have lived abroad for more than a year to take the test before they are allowed back into the country. |
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winterwawa
Joined: 06 May 2007
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| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| winterwawa wrote: |
[qu
TheUrbanMyth, As The Cosmic Hum pointed out no-one with Korean ancestry will ever need an E2 VISA. Even those with only one Korean parent qualify for an F4, so they would be exempt from the E2 laws that affect all other English teachers. If you are going to shout the laws in your text, please make sure you KNOW the law. |
Perhaps you should read what was written before posting nonsense and then getting humiliated? I bolded the relevant part so you can understand more easily.
Mithrae wrote "If my good friend Min ho, born and raised in Canada, doesn't have to take an AIDS test to get his E-2 visa..."
ALL E-2 visa holders have to take the AIDS test, regardless of ancestry. Now if Min ho had done his homework and gotten a F-series he wouldn't have to.
And as other people have pointed out, there ARE gyopos here who are on the E-2 visa...I know a couple myself.
I wish people would get it through their skulls that simply being of Korean ancestry DOES NOT GUARANTEE you a F-series visa...you have to PROVE IT. If for whatever reason you can not, or it is too much of a headache, then a E-2 visa would be the fall-back option |
Sorry, but that is not what you said. What you said was
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
Since this report was posted last year, I should think everyone has had time to read it...and dismiss it as the fear-mongering it is.
And your good friend Min-ho WOULD have to take the AIDS test regardless of Korean ancestry...which is something people have been trying to drum into your head. Here is it again.
ALL E-2 visa holders, REGARDLESS OF KOREAN ANCESTRY or ANYTHING ELSE, must take the AIDS test.
The AIDS test is required to OBTAIN an E-2 visa.
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There is no mention of Min ho being born and raised in Canada. Perhaps you should reread what you wrote. You are correct that all E2 VISA holder have to take the AIDS test, but you are wrong when you said [b]regardless of Korean ANCESTRY. If they are on a Korean registry, they DO NOT have to take the test in order to live and work in Korea. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| winterwawa wrote: |
[q
There is no mention of Min ho being born and raised in Canada. Perhaps you should reread what you wrote. You are correct that all E2 VISA holder have to take the AIDS test, but you are wrong when you said [b]regardless of Korean ANCESTRY. If they are on a Korean registry, they DO NOT have to take the test in order to live and work in Korea. |
Will you PLEASE READ what was written!
In Mithrae's post he clearly said Min ho was born and raised in Canada. Here is his quote AGAIN. "If my good friend Min ho, BORN AND RAISED IN CANADA, doesn't have to take an AIDS test to get his E-2 visa..." (capitals are mine for emphasis)
If Min ho was on the registry he would be able to prove he qualified for a F-series visa.
But that was not the hypothetical situation proposed. The hypothetical situation was a person of Korean ancestry going for an E-2 visa.
Are there people of Korean ancestry over here on a E-2 visa? Yes there are. Were they tested? Yes they were. Yet in Mithrae's hypothetical situation they wouldn't be? Sorry but facts trump hypothetical situations.
There are people of Korean ancestry over here on E-2 visas and they were tested. End of story. |
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Old Gil
Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Location: Got out! olleh!
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| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
Given all the griping about bureaucracy and paperwork I shudder to think what posters think if they tried to open a business back in their native countries. You think an annual AIDS test is an annoying inconvenience? Try getting 500 forms filled out to operate a restaurant or a repair shop. Welcome to the big boy world.
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Irrelevant. Stop making this about a country we're not living in. |
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