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Geckoman
Joined: 07 Jun 2007
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 Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:00 pm Post subject: Outrageous Korean Court Ruling Regarding Self-Defense |
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An outrageous Korean Court ruling regarding self-defense!
A Korean woman's husband tried to kill her and so she defended herself with a knife, resulting in his death, and the Korean court ruled that her action was unjustified and sentenced her to 3 years in jail and took away custody of her two children.
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The court also ruled that her stabbing her husband to death was excessive and may not be seen as legitimate self-defense.
The husband had carried out a violent attack on her, punching her in the face, holding her underwater in the bathtub and strangling her. The wife picked up a knife from the kitchen sink and urged him to stay away.
He attacked her again, upon which she stabbed her husband.
The husband was immediately taken to the hospital but died the following day.
The wife was indicted for injury resulting in death and was sentenced to three years in jail. She also lost the custody of her two children. |
See the rest of the article at:
http://www.koreaherald.co.kr/NEWKHSITE/data/html_dir/2009/11/03/200911030047.asp
Simply outrageous!
Another outrageous ruling from a Korean court.
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Konglishman
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Nanjing
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| I would suggest that some of us should forward this to international news networks such as CNN, BBC, Al Jazeera, etc. Also, alerting prominent newspapers such as the New York Times would be a good idea. |
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Bloopity Bloop
Joined: 26 Apr 2009
Location: Seoul yo
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Who are these judges that keep handing out these ridiculous rulings? Do you have to FAIL a psychiatric evaluation before you're allowed to become a judge in this country? God, this is so sickening. Puts me in a stabby kind of mood myself. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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(shakes head)
Hopefully some outrage will start over this. Self-Defense rights should never be chipped away at.
EDIT- I heard from my co-teacher that this sort of thing isn't uncommon and that this a standard punishment- the "logic" and I use that term very loosely, being that someone died and that no matter how bad beating is, killing someone is still killing someone. Even more disturbing is that SHE was somewhat indifferent to the whole thing- like "eh, this is just the crap we have to put up with till the older generation drops dead."
Al-Jazeera?
Last edited by Steelrails on Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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calicoe
Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Yeah, I was afraid of that. I've pondered that scenario myself. I will forward the details of this case to women's orgs overseas. I'm sure they will be interested. |
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Nemo
Joined: 28 May 2006
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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She only got three years. That's the injustice.
Judges are merely applying the law. In self defense cases, there's often a fine line between proportionate and excessive force.
If she didn't kill him, for example, and merely seriously injured him (enough to stop his attacks), it would be justified self defense. She was unlucky he died.
Western, common law jurisidictions have had problems with self-defence for a while now (esp. battered women syndrome type cases), so don't be so hasty in crying foul. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| What kind of a country is this? |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Bloopity Bloop wrote: |
| Do you have to FAIL a psychiatric evaluation before you're allowed to become a judge in this country? |
No, you just have to be a confucianist chauvinist pig from the old school.
The dinosaurs that are propped up in courts across the land are part of the old guard who have sworn to maintain unquestionad male domination in this country.
her crime was to kill a Korean man. If it had been the other way round he probably would've got off with a suspended sentence at worst. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Nemo wrote: |
She only got three years. That's the injustice.
Judges are merely applying the law. In self defense cases, there's often a fine line between proportionate and excessive force.
If she didn't kill him, for example, and merely seriously injured him (enough to stop his attacks), it would be justified self defense. She was unlucky he died.
Western, common law jurisidictions have had problems with self-defence for a while now (esp. battered women syndrome type cases), so don't be so hasty in crying foul. |
Sounds like someone who actually knows what they are talking about. |
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nathanrutledge
Joined: 01 May 2008
Location: Marakesh
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Nemo wrote: |
She only got three years. That's the injustice.
Judges are merely applying the law. In self defense cases, there's often a fine line between proportionate and excessive force.
If she didn't kill him, for example, and merely seriously injured him (enough to stop his attacks), it would be justified self defense. She was unlucky he died.
Western, common law jurisidictions have had problems with self-defence for a while now (esp. battered women syndrome type cases), so don't be so hasty in crying foul. |
You're right, it IS a fine line, but a clear line. In my state, the rule is that if you use deadly force, you use deadly force. A knife, a gun, whatever, if you pull it out and use it, you go for the kill.
There are legal and practical reasons for this. Legally, it's deadly force, not seriously injure force. Practically, once you kill them, it's your word against no one. You don't, they testify that you're a liar and then sue you in civil court.
Had this happened before? Did she report it? Did the police do anything about it? There are so many unknowns here. We cannot assume that she is 100% innocent and a victim of the system. Like the many, many cases that came before that seem unfair, the judges must work with what the law allows. Personally, I'd love to have judges like this in the United States. It's not the place of the judiciary to implement new law.
I.E., if you think this is unfair, write your representative in the legislature (well, if you're Korean, that is) to change the law. The judges just go with what they are given.
Long story short, we don't have the whole story, and while this seems terrible, we shouldn't rush to judgment on this news story alone. |
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Geckoman
Joined: 07 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Nemo wrote: |
| She only got three years. That's the injustice. |
Give me a break.
I don't know what country you're from, but in the United States, after a thorough investigation by the police department, no charges would of been filed against her.
In Korea sentences are greatly less than what people get in the US. So 3 years is what serious offenders, such as rapists, get in Korea.
Also, remember that in addition to the 3 years she lost custody of her childern.
This court verdict is OUTRAGEOUS!
Last edited by Geckoman on Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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shamham
Joined: 29 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Nemo wrote: |
She only got three years. That's the injustice.
Judges are merely applying the law. In self defense cases, there's often a fine line between proportionate and excessive force.
If she didn't kill him, for example, and merely seriously injured him (enough to stop his attacks), it would be justified self defense. She was unlucky he died.
Western, common law jurisidictions have had problems with self-defence for a while now (esp. battered women syndrome type cases), so don't be so hasty in crying foul. |
Keep in mind, though, when talking about the US - it varies from state to state.
In Texas, for example, self defense and protection of property is taken farther than some other states. There's the famous (and true) story of the guy calling 911 because he sees someone taking things from his neighbors house. When the cops don't show up fast enough, he goes out with his shotgun and blows the guy away. He ended up getting no penalty because the burglar made the mistake of stepping onto this guy's property while making his getaway. If the burglar had been on the other side of the property line the shooter would have been in deep doo-doo. Had he done the same thing in California, he would have been in a lot of trouble regardless of whose property the burglar was on.
I used to have a Korean-American friend who was a Hapkido expert. He worked as a professional bodyguard. A fan threw a punch at the guy he was protecting and my friend broke the fan's jaw. He ended up serving 2 years in prison for assault. The court decided that his use of force wasn't proportionate, especially given his training and coupled with the fact that he was not the one directly attacked. This was in New York State.
In many places in the USA simply saying "I'm going to kill you!" can get you arrested. Conversely, if someone says "I'm going to kill you!" just before they 'invade your personal space in a threatening manner', then you will have a case for self-defense if you happened to kill them in the fight. BUT... not in all states. Regardless of the state, self-defense where murder results is ALWAYS going to be suspect without serious evidence.
I can't actually speak to Korea's laws in this area. I'm not sure if self-defense laws are applied the same way to men and women. I'm sure there will be those who jump in and assert that they are not - but I wonder what the actual history is.
Does anyone know? Do men and women in Korea get the shaft on this issue equally? |
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Xuanzang
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Location: Sadang
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| I can sympathize why abused victims would feel helpless here. The cops are more likely to chastise you for ratting on your husband. Battered women's shelters are unavailable or far between. The courts are no recourse. Sure, we might be jumping to conclusions here but considering the plethora of inane court cases we've all seen in the past. A spade is a spade. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Geckoman wrote: |
| Nemo wrote: |
| She only got three years. That's the injustice. |
Give me a break.
I don't know what country you're from, but in the United States, after a thorough investigation by the police department, no charges would of been filed against her.
) |
You don't know that. We only have her word that her husband was strangling her and holding her head underwater.
Suppose they did a through investigation and found there was no evidence to support her claims? |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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Some of the responses in this thread make me glad that in Canada judges have life time appointments. Judges make decisions based on law, not public opinion. It's politicians jobs to change laws. I wonder how many posters have a deep understanding of the laws here?
It takes a long time to change laws, and often it happens when the public demands it. So slowly Korea is changing some of its laws, that may seem backwards now, but probably had a perfectly logical reason, based on local customs and culture, whenever it was first put in place
So, unless one of you posters hating on the judge can show me that he clearly handed down the wrong decision base on KOREAN law, it's wrong to attack the judge on this. |
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