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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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 Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:58 am Post subject: |
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Demophobe wrote:
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| Titles are extremely important in Korea, as yes, they don't take them lightly. Very few here are Assistant Professors, and I would bet that the number of actual professors on Dave's is countable on one hand, tenured or otherwise. |
+1
I might add, as there seems to be some discrepency in the title translations... though different universities may use different titles.. for what it is worth...
bu gyo su - assistant professor
jo gyo su - associate professor
At my uni the distinction between the two is substantial. |
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withnail
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul, South Korea.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:12 am Post subject: |
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| So what is the Korean for the oft-seen "Visiting Professor"? |
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Demophobe
Joined: 17 May 2004
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:17 am Post subject: |
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| withnail wrote: |
| So what is the Korean for the oft-seen "Visiting Professor"? |
객원교수
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bu gyo su - assistant professor
jo gyo su - associate professor
At my uni the distinction between the two is substantial. |
And at mine. Koreans use titles as a method also of delineating pay scales, thus adding more than simple semantic value to the title.
Speaking frankly, those I have met who insist that they are a 'professor' here seem to have swollen, yet fragile egos and have no idea just how difficult a PhD is to attain. |
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bassexpander
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:53 am Post subject: |
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My school ID, door title, and previous business cards had me listed as Kyo-su for two years. I actually was embarrassed by that, and had them change it because I merely have a BA. I am now Jo-nim-kang-sa, which is more fitting, IMHO. Call me whatever you want.... I still teach in Korea.
If I had a Ph.D, I'd have no desire to compare myself to BA's and MA's in Korea. I'd probably rather compare myself to my actual peers with Ph.D's teaching in the USA or elsewhere. Otherwise, it's kind of like a medical doctor from a low-ranked med school comparing him/herself to nurses from the same school and feeling proud of it. |
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HapKi
Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Location: TALL BUILDING-SEOUL
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:00 am Post subject: |
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bu gyo su - assistant professor
jo gyo su - associate professor |
I'm afraid you have the two mixed up.
Jo (조) comes before Bu (부) Professor in many years, and also in the things you have to do to get it. |
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_kojak
Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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| I've been applying for university jobs since mid October and haven't heard back from anyone yet. Does anyone know when interviews will start to be scheduled, or more generally, when they will get in contact? I have a MATESOL (actually, still need to finish my portfolio) and 3+ years experience teaching, 2 in Korea, and one semester at a Mexican university. |
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dorian_gray
Joined: 04 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| _kojak wrote: |
| I've been applying for university jobs since mid October and haven't heard back from anyone yet. Does anyone know when interviews will start to be scheduled, or more generally, when they will get in contact? I have a MATESOL (actually, still need to finish my portfolio) and 3+ years experience teaching, 2 in Korea, and one semester at a Mexican university. |
You should start getting calls mid to late November. However, I will warn you not to expect too much. You're still finishing your portfolio, which means you don't have diploma in hand yet. Being close to finished is the same as having nothing in the minds of Korean hiring committees. How do I know this? I am in the same boat (doing my thesis project now for MA in English). While you and I both know that nearly have an MA in TESOL or English makes us a lot more qualified than someone who has an MA in Biology, we don't yet have the diploma in hand. This will affect our chances I am sorry to say. With that said, you will still get some interest because of your experience and your education, it just won't be from the bigger schools. Good luck!  |
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Demophobe
Joined: 17 May 2004
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| dorian_gray wrote: |
| _kojak wrote: |
| I've been applying for university jobs since mid October and haven't heard back from anyone yet. Does anyone know when interviews will start to be scheduled, or more generally, when they will get in contact? I have a MATESOL (actually, still need to finish my portfolio) and 3+ years experience teaching, 2 in Korea, and one semester at a Mexican university. |
You should start getting calls mid to late November. However, I will warn you not to expect too much. You're still finishing your portfolio, which means you don't have diploma in hand yet. Being close to finished is the same as having nothing in the minds of Korean hiring committees. How do I know this? I am in the same boat (doing my thesis project now for MA in English). While you and I both know that nearly have an MA in TESOL or English makes us a lot more qualified than someone who has an MA in Biology, we don't yet have the diploma in hand. This will affect our chances I am sorry to say. With that said, you will still get some interest because of your experience and your education, it just won't be from the bigger schools. Good luck! |
Not quite true, I'm afraid. Being near completion (or even well into) an MA means a lot. Sure, for the unis who simply won't look at anyone without an MA in hand, but there are top-tiered unis that will regard this well. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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| HapKi wrote: |
| Quote: |
bu gyo su - assistant professor
jo gyo su - associate professor |
I'm afraid you have the two mixed up.
Jo (조) comes before Bu (부) Professor in many years, and also in the things you have to do to get it. |
oops...yes my mistake.
Jo gyo su - assistant professor
Bu gyo su - associate professor
Thanks for catching that Hapki...well done  |
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Unposter
Joined: 04 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:47 am Post subject: |
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Why is an MA TESOL a better qualification than an MA in Biology, especially when there are hundreds, possible thousands of MA TESOL people running around but you could probably count the number of MA in Biology people on one hand. When you figure how much a person with an MA in Biology could help Biology majors and quite possibly other natural science majors, what is your rationale?
Personally, I think there are a lot of advantages to having a well-rounded staff that have direct experience that is helpful to their students.
Most university students, especially in the good schools, are less in need of developing fluency and more in need of learning specific skills in English. That Biology major could be extremely useful, especially if they have a graduate degree. |
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cruisemonkey
Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Location: Hopefully, the same place as my luggage.
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:33 am Post subject: |
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| cdninkorea wrote: |
Not to mention that the Korean prof probably has to publish. |
... in what... the Han-guk Journal of Fan Death? It's not quite the Lancet |
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jinks
Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Location: Formerly: Lower North Island
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Unposter wrote: |
| Why is an MA TESOL a better qualification than an MA in Biology ... what is your rationale? |
Who would you choose to teach a biology programme, an MA TESOL or an MA Biol? |
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KoreanAmbition
Joined: 03 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Unposter wrote: |
Why is an MA TESOL a better qualification than an MA in Biology, especially when there are hundreds, possible thousands of MA TESOL people running around but you could probably count the number of MA in Biology people on one hand. When you figure how much a person with an MA in Biology could help Biology majors and quite possibly other natural science majors, what is your rationale?
Personally, I think there are a lot of advantages to having a well-rounded staff that have direct experience that is helpful to their students.
Most university students, especially in the good schools, are less in need of developing fluency and more in need of learning specific skills in English. That Biology major could be extremely useful, especially if they have a graduate degree. |
At the good universities, this above post reflects a true benefit.
Meanwhile, I would assume most of the "good" schools probably still don't possess a solid understanding of this benefit. Or, they don't have the budget to generalize as much as you suggesting.
My unigwon hires teachers with some different abilities so that we can provide a wider service offering. I do believe it's needed. |
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dorian_gray
Joined: 04 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Unposter wrote: |
Why is an MA TESOL a better qualification than an MA in Biology, especially when there are hundreds, possible thousands of MA TESOL people running around but you could probably count the number of MA in Biology people on one hand. When you figure how much a person with an MA in Biology could help Biology majors and quite possibly other natural science majors, what is your rationale?
Personally, I think there are a lot of advantages to having a well-rounded staff that have direct experience that is helpful to their students.
Most university students, especially in the good schools, are less in need of developing fluency and more in need of learning specific skills in English. That Biology major could be extremely useful, especially if they have a graduate degree. |
Well, I'd like to point out that it's probably not an MA in Biology (as I stated in my post), but an MS in Biology (Master of Science, not Arts). My mistake....
With that said, there are still quite a few holes in your argument that someone with an MS in Biology is just as qualified to teach English as someone with an MA TESOL (or related field such as English or linguistics, etc.). Teaching English to biology majors, would be classified as ESP or EAP ( English for Special Purpose or English for Academic Purpose), something that an MA TESOL would be familiar with. Perhaps they would need to brush up on some vocabulary, but the MA TESOL candidate would be much better equipped to teach the biology students because, after all, they are still teaching English to non-English speakers, even if it's for a specific purpose. The MA TESOL would have more theoretical (if not practical) knowledge of how to effectively teach these biology students English. The bottom line is that an MS in Biology is simply not qualified to teach English ~ in any way (unless they've taken a practical qualification, like the CELTA/Trinity TESOL).
In regards to your final statement (that University students need to develop their fluency and learn specific skills in English) ~ I think you proved my point entirely! FLUENCY (when specifically talking about teaching the English language and not in layman's terms) refers to a student's ability to communicate easily (about a topic or using a particular grammatical structure) without regard to the exactness or correctness of the structures that they use. ACCURACY (when specifically talking about teaching the English language and not in layman's terms) refers to exactly and correctly producing the grammatical structures. Most well planned lessons will have both a fluency and an accuracy stage.
The students to which you refer in your final paragraph, quite likely need to work on their accuracy, not their fluency.
IMHO, someone with a BA in English, CELTA (or some other practical, reputable qualification) and a few years of experience, is better qualified than an MS in Biology to teach English. That's because teaching English isn't just as simple as knowing English (which is a mistake that a lot of people, including hiring committees, make). Like most things, teaching English is something you need to be educated and trained for. |
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dorian_gray
Joined: 04 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Demophobe wrote: |
Not quite true, I'm afraid. Being near completion (or even well into) an MA means a lot. Sure, for the unis who simply won't look at anyone without an MA in hand, but there are top-tiered unis that will regard this well. |
Well, this is good news for me and the other guy that asked the question ~ YAY! Thanks for the heads up. |
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