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aboxofchocolates
Joined: 21 Mar 2008
Location: on your mind
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Bramble
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Location: National treasures need homes
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Joe666
Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Location: Jesus it's hot down here!
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 Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 12:20 am Post subject: |
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I can't speak for this area of Canada or Canada itself, but this kind of situation is happening quite frequently in parts of the U.S. Overpopulation leading to wild animals having nowhere to go. People in California are being attacked by Puma's etc. A few years ago, I saw a Turkey standing at a bus stop in the outskirts of a major U.S. city. There were 3 people standing with it.  I have seen groups of deer, foxes hanging out in not so rural areas.
Look what overpopulation did to the animals in S. Korea. They all took off for green(er) pastures. I would imagine most areas of Canada are fairly unpopulous and this was just a freak accident. Bananas!!! |
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nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
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| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:34 am Post subject: |
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| Joe666 wrote: |
| I can't speak for this area of Canada or Canada itself, but this kind of situation is happening quite frequently in parts of the U.S. Overpopulation leading to wild animals having nowhere to go. |
well thats it.
Wild animals tend to make the headlines only when they are demonised for hurting humans.
Fact of the matter is that we have invaded their territory with all our new housing complexes and encroaching suburbia. |
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halfmanhalfbiscuit
Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:55 am Post subject: |
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| Can't you carry guns there? |
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aboxofchocolates
Joined: 21 Mar 2008
Location: on your mind
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| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:35 am Post subject: |
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| halfmanhalfbiscuit wrote: |
| Can't you carry guns there? |
Not in the parks and I think it's illegal to carry guns 100 ft from a residential area. But I think people are rethinking those laws.
Experts recommend you take a knife with you when you go hiking, but man, I do not want to get into a knife fight with a couple of coyotes. For starters, they'd be way better at it, what with their knives being built in. They aren't going to drop theirs when they get injured. And deer have these great built in knives on their feet and head that haven't done them so much good over the years.
People are saying there is a coyote population problem- I don't think that's the case. I think there is a coyote confidence problem, as in they have way too much of it. Coyotes have this interesting breeding function where if there is a huge population cull, they will just have more pups to make up for the loss. I think you should just shoot them on sight, the genetic moral of that story being do not get in sight of a human. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:06 am Post subject: |
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| Bear-away might work with them as would a flash-bang. Don't know. Best, be armed when in the woods. |
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Janny
Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Location: all over the place
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| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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In my opinion, we should not blame the animals. They are doing something quite natural for them.
WE are the ones taking up too much of the land with our strip malls and huge parking lots etc. We should we expect our wildlife to know the zoning codes?
Also, anyone who goes hiking should know that you run the risk of seeing / being attacked by a large animal. If they're hungry, they might try to eat you. Big surprise.
I am so tired of human rights taking SO much precedence over animal rights. We all have rights to this Earth. I don't care if that sounds granola, it's just true.
We need a HUMAN cull. (sorry, true again) |
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halfmanhalfbiscuit
Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Janny wrote: |
In my opinion, we should not blame the animals. They are doing something quite natural for them.
WE are the ones taking up too much of the land with our strip malls and huge parking lots etc. We should we expect our wildlife to know the zoning codes?
Also, anyone who goes hiking should know that you run the risk of seeing / being attacked by a large animal. If they're hungry, they might try to eat you. Big surprise.
I am so tired of human rights taking SO much precedence over animal rights. We all have rights to this Earth. I don't care if that sounds granola, it's just true.
We need a HUMAN cull. (sorry, true again) |
What's natural-killing hippy chicks?
A human cull....beginning with? Hippies? Ajummas? Slavs in denim?
I don't know if you're ultra-hippy or something other.
Anyhoo-what's "Bear-Away"? |
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Janny
Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Location: all over the place
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| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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A typical (and unbiased) human cull would be a meteor hit, a huge earthquake / volcano, a rampant killer virus....psycho hitting a nuke button...
Would I be culled? Maybe..that's OK by me. I've lived. Life in this meat uniform is temporary anyway. |
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aboxofchocolates
Joined: 21 Mar 2008
Location: on your mind
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| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Janny wrote: |
In my opinion, we should not blame the animals. They are doing something quite natural for them.
WE are the ones taking up too much of the land with our strip malls and huge parking lots etc. We should we expect our wildlife to know the zoning codes?
Also, anyone who goes hiking should know that you run the risk of seeing / being attacked by a large animal. If they're hungry, they might try to eat you. Big surprise.
I am so tired of human rights taking SO much precedence over animal rights. We all have rights to this Earth. I don't care if that sounds granola, it's just true.
We need a HUMAN cull. (sorry, true again) |
No, it's not fair. We are a mean, greedy species. So are coyotes, but we are just way better at it
The area you are referring to actually has a shrinking human population. Not a whole lot of urban development going on on a Canadian National Park, either.
I am with you 100% on the need for a human cull (hypothetically, I am not about to be shooting for human pelts), but what idiot species in nature lets a competing species kill them and their kind- literally knock them down and eat them- because it's fair?
I just skimmed my copy of Singer's "Animal Liberation," and nowhere does it mention allowing animals to attack humans because we have been so unfair to them. We also can't sit coyotes down for diplomatic talks and create some kind of neutral zone for them. We probably did them a great disservice not doing things the coyote way earlier (mark territory, kill off intruders) because things became a little complex for a species that has three classifications (Our Pack, Stuff That's Meaner Than Us, Stuff To Eat). You can't make a dent in the coyote population, you can only make them shy of humans.[/quote] |
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Janny
Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Location: all over the place
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| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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I didn't see the word "fair" in my original post. We're not talking about fair at all. I don't advocate "allowing another species to eat our own because that's fair." Maybe I was too brief.
My main idea here is that BECAUSE we are more intelligent, we should a) find successful ways to share our land with animals; and b) not get all upset when a hiker gets attacked by a wild animal.
It happened in a big National Park? So there are lots of bigger predators about...yes? Keep that in mind when you're hiking maybe...?
The bigger point I was making is that most large, indigenous animals are fighting for survival because of land encroachment / widescale pollution by people. I think you'd agree with me on that one.
The end of the story is this...the hiker had some bad luck and ran into a couple of hungry and territorial coyotes. Simply a lesson learned for other hikers. Nothing to go crazy about...many, many more people have successful and lovely hikes in coyote territory. (No personal affront to the deceased intended, on a micro level I'm sorry someone lost her life. I'm sure she was a nature-lover too) |
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aboxofchocolates
Joined: 21 Mar 2008
Location: on your mind
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| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Janny wrote: |
My main idea here is that BECAUSE we are more intelligent, we should a) find successful ways to share our land with animals; and b) not get all upset when a hiker gets attacked by a wild animal.
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Why should intelligence keep us from getting upset? Seems to me our intelligence is what gives us the ability to get upset in the first place. In fact, being upset seems like the best response for an intelligent being.
I know this great way to share the land with coyotes- shoot every one you see until they decide not to be seen by people any more! Coyotes will be happy eating bambi in their woodland paradise, and people will be happy not to be eaten.
Also, it might be a little difficult for people who grow up in cities to get it when animals avoid urban areas like the plague, but if you live in the woods, you are not on the periphery chatting about humans relationship with nature idealistically, nature is very mush a part of your day to day survival, too. The hike she went on is a hike some people go on every day. There are people living in those communities whose families have been living there for generations. Coyotes have only been on the island since the 70's. What is it about coyotes that makes their survival more important than the folks in the town? |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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| aboxofchocolates wrote: |
| People are saying there is a coyote population problem- I don't think that's the case. I think there is a coyote confidence problem, as in they have way too much of it. Coyotes have this interesting breeding function where if there is a huge population cull, they will just have more pups to make up for the loss. I think you should just shoot them on sight, the genetic moral of that story being do not get in sight of a human. |
Have there been that many coyote attacks on humans?
This is one of the first cases I've ever heard of. Not only that, the game officials said this was their first case in 30+ years. |
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aboxofchocolates
Joined: 21 Mar 2008
Location: on your mind
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| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| aboxofchocolates wrote: |
| People are saying there is a coyote population problem- I don't think that's the case. I think there is a coyote confidence problem, as in they have way too much of it. Coyotes have this interesting breeding function where if there is a huge population cull, they will just have more pups to make up for the loss. I think you should just shoot them on sight, the genetic moral of that story being do not get in sight of a human. |
Have there been that many coyote attacks on humans?
This is one of the first cases I've ever heard of. Not only that, the game officials said this was their first case in 30+ years. |
It's not the norm, but people in the area aren't surprised. Consider coyotes are a relatively new species in the area, they are becoming increasingly comfortable in residential areas, and people have stopped shooting them. Also, quite a few anecdotal cases of coyote attacks have been coming up (cornered children and the like). She looks like a small girl in her pictures. So, two coyotes see what they have come to observe to be a slow, clumsy animal they can be relatively close to with no negative consequences (unlike most other predators) and it translates into lunch.
If you can see coyotes in your backyard, then they are invading your territory. They wouldn't do that to animals they are afraid of. If they aren't afraid of you, then the only thing you're good for is eating. Coyotes don't want to co-exist, they want dinner and don't care if you are it. This isn't diplomatic relations with another nation, these are dumb hungry mean things with built in knives. |
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