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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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 Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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| youtuber wrote: |
| I dunno I just don't really understand the whole baby making thing. Do people feel that their genes are superior to others so they should "go forth and multiply"? That's kind of weird isn't it? Kind of narcissistic isn't it? |
I don't think that's the motivation most people use when having a child. I think the inclination is mostly emotional, and hard to explain in logical terms. Viewed purely objectively, you're right, a child should be a child. Viewed through the lens of emotion, I at least feel differently about the situation. I think a lot of people do, which is why adoption isn't as common as it could be.
| youtuber wrote: |
| What's wrong with someone else's "burden"? If an adoptee is healthy, what's the problem? Why not help a kid out? Seems kind of selfish doesn't it? |
Donating over a decade of your life and over a hundred thousand dollars of your earned money to raise a child is more than helping a kid out. It's an immense, dedicated effort. It's hardly surprising many people want to reserve said immense effort for a being they feel an inate emotional bond to: their own child.
| youtuber wrote: |
| It boggles my mind that some people in Canada will spend tens of thousands of dollars on fertility treatments when they could just adopt. |
I don't think it's particularly shocking. Humans have been reproducing and raising their own children for thousands of years. It's pretty clearly a natural inclination. Maybe you feel there shouldn't be a difference, but people clearly think there's one, which is why people do spend money on fertility treatments instead of adopting. |
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youtuber
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
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youtuber
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| youtuber wrote: |
| I dunno I just don't really understand the whole baby making thing. Do people feel that their genes are superior to others so they should "go forth and multiply"? That's kind of weird isn't it? Kind of narcissistic isn't it? |
I don't think that's the motivation most people use when having a child. I think the inclination is mostly emotional, and hard to explain in logical terms. Viewed purely objectively, you're right, a child should be a child. Viewed through the lens of emotion, I at least feel differently about the situation. I think a lot of people do, which is why adoption isn't as common as it could be.
| youtuber wrote: |
| What's wrong with someone else's "burden"? If an adoptee is healthy, what's the problem? Why not help a kid out? Seems kind of selfish doesn't it? |
Donating over a decade of your life and over a hundred thousand dollars of your earned money to raise a child is more than helping a kid out. It's an immense, dedicated effort. It's hardly surprising many people want to reserve said immense effort for a being they feel an inate emotional bond to: their own child.
| youtuber wrote: |
| It boggles my mind that some people in Canada will spend tens of thousands of dollars on fertility treatments when they could just adopt. |
I don't think it's particularly shocking. Humans have been reproducing and raising their own children for thousands of years. It's pretty clearly a natural inclination. Maybe you feel there shouldn't be a difference, but people clearly think there's one, which is why people do spend money on fertility treatments instead of adopting. |
Just for interest's sake, are you female? |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:00 am Post subject: |
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| youtuber wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| youtuber wrote: |
| I dunno I just don't really understand the whole baby making thing. Do people feel that their genes are superior to others so they should "go forth and multiply"? That's kind of weird isn't it? Kind of narcissistic isn't it? |
I don't think that's the motivation most people use when having a child. I think the inclination is mostly emotional, and hard to explain in logical terms. Viewed purely objectively, you're right, a child should be a child. Viewed through the lens of emotion, I at least feel differently about the situation. I think a lot of people do, which is why adoption isn't as common as it could be.
| youtuber wrote: |
| What's wrong with someone else's "burden"? If an adoptee is healthy, what's the problem? Why not help a kid out? Seems kind of selfish doesn't it? |
Donating over a decade of your life and over a hundred thousand dollars of your earned money to raise a child is more than helping a kid out. It's an immense, dedicated effort. It's hardly surprising many people want to reserve said immense effort for a being they feel an inate emotional bond to: their own child.
| youtuber wrote: |
| It boggles my mind that some people in Canada will spend tens of thousands of dollars on fertility treatments when they could just adopt. |
I don't think it's particularly shocking. Humans have been reproducing and raising their own children for thousands of years. It's pretty clearly a natural inclination. Maybe you feel there shouldn't be a difference, but people clearly think there's one, which is why people do spend money on fertility treatments instead of adopting. |
Just for interest's sake, are you female? |
No, I'm not. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:18 am Post subject: |
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Your first link says nothing of substance. The second one talks about things they 'heard' - but the third is a decent article.
That's one decent source... and the vast majority was about Korean/African American mixed kids... often from single parents (ie. Ward).
So, you think Koreans have been racist to you.. fine... I wouldn't want to take away from that. I have no doubt that's how you feel.
But here, you're talking about shitty treatment for mixed kids saying:
| Quote: |
| Mixed kids are generally treated like shitt so that should be your main concern. |
And I'm confused as to where you get this 'generally' bit from?
I'm guessing I know far more mixed kids than you (and their parents). I'm involved in a number of married expats groups here... and the instances of 'shitty treatment' for their mixed kids, is on the rare side.
I have a mixed kid, and the oddest/worst thing I get is 'she doesn't look Korean' or 'she's not Korean' - but if you think that's being 'treated shitty', then we have different takes on that word.
So, I'll ask again - do you actually know any mixed kids in Korea? Do you have any?
Other than some pretty lame articles that you posted, do you actually KNOW anything about the subject?
Edit: and from your own source (the one decent one):
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Things have changed the last three years. Han met Ward in 2006. When classmates saw pictures of the two together, Han was suddenly treated differently. Most antagonism ended. Some peers even find his biracial heritage �cool,� he said.
�I can see Korea is changing every year,� he said. �It�s slowly changing.� |
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youtuber
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:38 am Post subject: |
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The first article was a Korea Times article that significantly says
"Moreover, they are treated differently, with indirect words and in indirect ways, people are reluctant to accept them as members of our society, only because they are biracial."
The kids thought the mixed kid was cool after he posed with Hines Ward. How shocking. And how do you know that I/Molly is not black? So I guess the black/Korean mix is ok to be treated poorly?
Nope I don't have any kids in Korea. And I don't think I would want to. I have lived in Korea for long enough to know better.
It's just my opinion based on my experience. If your experience is much different, well, ok.
I don't think you should such paint a rosy picture though. Obviously Korea's pride is largely based on "purebloods".
I think a lot of your rationalizing has to do with the comfort and security of your job rather than the best interests of your child. Or maybe you just aren't cogniscent of the racist environment in which you live. 
But alas, I defer to you, expert of all experts. |
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NightSky
Joined: 19 Apr 2005
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:48 am Post subject: |
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| youtuber wrote: |
I dunno I just don't really understand the whole baby making thing. Do people feel that their genes are superior to others so they should "go forth and multiply"? That's kind of weird isn't it? Kind of narcissistic isn't it? What's wrong with someone else's "burden"? If an adoptee is healthy, what's the problem? Why not help a kid out? Seems kind of selfish doesn't it?
It boggles my mind that some people in Canada will spend tens of thousands of dollars on fertility treatments when they could just adopt. |
most people get over this kind of angsty attitude by around age 13, when they sit down and ask their parents, "why did you even have me, anyway"?
Call your mother and ask her why she bothered having you. |
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travelnguy
Joined: 27 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 4:52 am Post subject: Back to the original question |
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My wife and I had a baby here. My wife is from Peru and I am from the US. It has been nothing but a positive experience for us. We do live in a smaller town and that might make a little difference.
Just after giving birth, my wife's friends from church showed up to clean the house and to cook for us. This lasted for about a month as they knew we didn't have any family here.
My school has been great as well. They gave me a month off with pay to be with my wife.
The medical care here is very different than in the states but the doctors did everything that we wanted. We were given a private room and I was able to be in the room when our son was born. Apparently, this is not the norm here.
We have become good friends with our son's pediatrician and she even comes to our house to give him his vaccines. She doesn't want him at the clinic because too many children are getting tested or being treated for H1N1.
The local Home Plus has mommy and me classes. My wife doesn't speak any Korean, but the classes aren't just for her. It's about interacting with other children.
Our only problem is that we really want to get our son in the pool but have been told that he can't go in the pool until he is 2 years old.
We don't plan on being here long enough for our son to go to school here, so that is not a problem either. If we were to stay here, he would probably go to an international school as we do want an English education.
Good luck and congrats on what ever you decide to do. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| youtuber wrote: |
Nope I don't have any kids in Korea. And I don't think I would want to. I have lived in Korea for long enough to know better.
It's just my opinion based on my experience. If your experience is much different, well, ok. |
Based on WHAT experience?
The topic is raising a kid in Korea - possibly a mixed kid. WHAT experience do you have with that?
Seriously, you keep talking about 'your experiences', but from what I can tell, you don't have any in this area.
So call me the expert if you like, but the truth seems pretty obvious - there are people who actually have experience with this issue on this thread - and they seem to run counter to your stance.
So, exactly what experience do you have with raising a (mixed?) kid in Korea?
None?
The STFU and listen to people that do. |
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meangradin
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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As a parent of a "mixed" child I would say that my 3 year old is treated very well; in fact, perhaps too well. It may be too early to tell, but I think he's arrogant. He will never say goodbye to people, just give them a "peace out" type of hand gesture. I attribute this to all the adjumas coming up to him and telling him he's so cute, blah blah blah. At his kindie he is given special treatment by the teachers and the students. The former because he is different (and my wife is very good friends with the owner of the school - and I teach a few days a week) and by the latter because parents want their children hanging out with the English speaking kid. The strange thing is that when I teach his class, he will never say a peep, and he actually gets pretty choked when the kids talk to me and participate in my lessons. But when we are at home, I can't shut the kid up.
The OP asked about sending kids to school in Korea, and this is an issue I am concerned with. Not soo much with the Korean education system, but rather with his ability to speak Korean at a level that is appropriate for a student. I have a few friends who have kids in the Korean system, and the problem is that although they can speak Korean, they are behind the native speakers, so they have a difficult time with school material. Beacuse our son IS going to be attending Korean elementary school, I want to make sure that he is speaking at an age appropriate level. To this end, my wife spends a lot of time speaking only Korean to him, and he spends time with his cousins. This was also the rational behind sending him to Kindie from 2 years old. |
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DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP
Joined: 28 May 2009
Location: Electron cloud
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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| youtuber wrote: |
I dunno I just don't really understand the whole baby making thing. Do people feel that their genes are superior to others so they should "go forth and multiply"? That's kind of weird isn't it? Kind of narcissistic isn't it? What's wrong with someone else's "burden"? If an adoptee is healthy, what's the problem? Why not help a kid out? Seems kind of selfish doesn't it?
It boggles my mind that some people in Canada will spend tens of thousands of dollars on fertility treatments when they could just adopt. |
You ever been in love? When you are you can find yourself wanting to share the whole experience with your partner and also making someone who you will both love and bring up that is part of both of you. |
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sofaking
Joined: 30 May 2008
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| youtuber wrote: |
I think a lot of your rationalizing has to do with the comfort and security of your job rather than the best interests of your child. |
You are obviously not a parent and to make this assumption is ludicrous. As a parent living here in Korea, I would be on the first plane out of here if I thought my kids were being treated badly. The best interests of my children is the FIRST thing on my mind. I am sure this is the case for all other parents out there too.
You have been told by several other posters that their children have had no problems. Let me add my family to that list. The best you can do is throw up a few newspaper reports when you have people giving you first hand accounts.
Grow up, have a couple of kids, then come back and talk to the people who know what really happens. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:34 am Post subject: |
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Lived in Korea with our son until he was nearly 3. Now living in Canada with our 5 year old son and our baby daughter.
Korea pros
Family support
General acceptance of kids in all public spaces (restaurants for example)
Heaps of activities for kids (classes, activity groups, play rooms (see Kids cafe), play areas in most department stores...)
Safety in neighborhoods as everyone knew everyones kids so they watched out for each other.
The absence of the fear from strangers (more secure feeling)
Korea cons
Pollution in certain areas
Traffic and the hazards it brings
Cost of daycare in certain places
As I have two mixed kids, one of which was mostly raised in Korea, I will add my voice to refute this "mixed kids are treated like crap" statement that was made earlier in the thread.
My son was treated very well at his daycare, at the activities he attended (swimming, family taekwondo, arts and craft classes). In the public sphere (public transit, restaurants, malls) he was treated well. At certain department stores they had supervised playrooms. We left him there for an hour or so on occasion and he had a ball.
I also have mixed couples who still live in Korea, many of them with school age mixed kids and the bad story is extremely rare. Their kids go to public schools and do fine.
My son had numerous play dates with Korean kids in our old neighborhood. There were no issues to speak of beyond kids sometimes arguing.
Dealing with car traffic was somewhat stressful as he started to run around. It took some looking out for him and some teaching of how to be safe.
We had no plans to leave Korea but life intervened and we are now in Canada. I had no problem seeing my son grow up in Korea. The pollution was something on my mind but our area in Busan was pretty good in that department. We had a great neighborhood life, some solid community contacts and an extended familial support network.
On another note, when you have mixed kids, it is your responsibility to put equal value on the culture and language from of parents. It would be pretty ignorant and sad to try to cut off your mixed kid from half his cultural heritage or to openly crap on half his heritage. In fact it would be the perfect example of being closed-minded and passing on bigotry and racism. Where do you think kids get their values? How do you think a person would feel if their all their spouse did was crap all over their culture and rant about how bad people from their country are?
Making generalizations about mixed kids when you have none and are not even raising kids in Korea is a bit odd. |
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MollyBloom
Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Location: James Joyce's pants
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:14 pm Post subject: Re: parenthood in general and in korea |
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| youtuber wrote: |
| MollyBloom wrote: |
I'm getting married in the spring, so I'm thinking a lot about motherhood! Well, I'd like to wait 3-4 years before I have my first child...
I was also wondering how many posters have children. Also, if they were born in Korea, how is raising them here? Furthermore, if they are in school in Korea, how is that working out? |
Mixed kids are generally treated like shitt so that should be your main concern. Why not adopt? There are thousands of abandoned kids here. |
I'm marrying a non-Korean guy, but we would adopt if for some reason we couldn't have kids.
For other posters:
The reason why I brought this up is because after we get married in the states, we might come back to Seoul and work. We don't plan on having kids for a few years after we are married, but if we are in Korea and I get pregnant, we will certainly have the child here, and enroll the child in school if he/she gets to that age. I'm just looking for some info from experienced parents if we are in that situation.
I'm wondering about schooling; did you put your child in a Korean school or international one when it came time? How did you make your decision, and what did you base it on? Do any of you have older children in the middle/high school system for some time?
Last edited by MollyBloom on Thu Nov 19, 2009 4:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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GwangjuParents
Joined: 31 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:33 am Post subject: |
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We have two kids here (mixed).
I'll be honest... they are treated a bit differently. They do sometimes get the migook/waygook thing, and my daughter has been teased in a mild way a couple times about having a waygook dad.
But no situation is ever 100 percent perfect. However, generally they're extremely happy. They're treated like royalty. Everyone wants to touch them.
If you want to raise kids here, the big thing is you, and your attitude toward Korea.
If you like Korea and you're happy, then you won't have a problem.
But if you don't like Korea, that attitude will seep over onto your kids and it will hurt them, and maybe make them paranoid about Koreans.
For schooling, we put our daughter in a foreign school. She's now becoming tri-lingual at the school.
We put her there because of the added language and because private education is almost always superior to public education. Also, at the foreign school, you're dealing with 'liberal' type parents, so the migook/waygood chorus is basically non-existant.
At a public school, I'm sure my daughter would be subject to the migook/waygook chorus, at least for a little bit. |
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