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sunnata1
Joined: 19 Nov 2009
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 Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 4:04 pm Post subject: I attended GETA yesterday. NETs not wanted |
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Yesterday in Gwangju I attended the Global English Teachers Association (GETA) symposium. The title was 'Transforming Learners, Teachers, and the English Classroom.
This was recommended to me as a professional development conference. For Native English Teachers it was anything but.
From the first presentation to the last NETs were bashed. Within the first hour a reference was made to crimes being commited by NETs. There were a few laughs during the day at our expense, and the overall purpose of the day seems to be to make the argument that monies would be better spent training Korean teacher's rather than recruiting and hiring NETs.
One discussion group was held entirely in Korea (although it was an English conference.) The topic of that presentation? 'Transforming ELT in Korea.'
This was not a small break out group - this was one of two late morning discussion groups. Native English speakers who were already seated in the auditorium were told to attend the 'Transforming ELT in Asia' discussion panel.
The fact that the Transforming ELT in Korea panel was held in Korean shows exactly how much input NETs have in the discussion.
There were a few interesting presentation in the afternoon during the break out sessions. These were mostly by grad students presenting their research. But the overall theme for the day was that NETs are bad for the development of teaching English in Korea. |
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nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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The KT's hadn't a clue as to how to teach english when I first arrived at my school.Nothing personal against them, they're fine. Its sounds arrogant, but its just a fact: their lessons were monotonous, boring, dicatotrial. There was no excitement, ingenuity, activities or genuine interraction.And there were dozens of blatant gramar and other errors.
fast forward a year later, and there is virtually not a single thing the KT's do which is not copied from how I do things. The classes are alive, fun, and learning.
I dunno. It just seems that there is a wall of determination to find fault with foreigners here no matter what. This is a massive insult to those of us who have excelled and done our best. Its all so needless, anyhow, because NET's are not threatening the KT's job security in any way.
From what I can see KT's are no way ready to take over teaching their country english. If because of some sort of xenephobia/inferiority complex/ inability to accept and work alongside foreigners/mass fabrication of foreigner crime hysteria.. they want to sieze the reains at this stage, it will be a backward step for english education in this country. |
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bassexpander
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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This was a global thing, yet almost entirely Korean?
How many foreigners were there, roughly? |
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cruisemonkey
Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Location: Hopefully, the same place as my luggage.
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:41 pm Post subject: Re: I attended GETA yesterday. NETs not wanted |
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| sunnata1 wrote: |
| Yesterday in Gwangju I attended the Global English Teachers Association (GETA) symposium... One discussion group was held entirely in Korea. |
One would think they could have split it up between Gwangju and Phuket. We have the technology.  |
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lifeinkorea
Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Location: somewhere in China
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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Well, let's see. You fly someone to your country to teach kids. You house them and put up a large security deposit. You hire a Korean to be their co-teacher.
Then, you stick the NET in an empty room with boards that are way too high for the students to reach (if they use chairs to stand on, they can only reach one third of it, you only half). You make the Korean teacher do completely unrelated tasks to teaching English and working with the NET.
After all that, you see no improvement in the students. Why is this? Must be the NET!!! |
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sunnata1
Joined: 19 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| bassexpander wrote: |
This was a global thing, yet almost entirely Korean?
How many foreigners were there, roughly? |
As far as presenters - there were a few from China, Russia, the Philippines, Taiwan, and Japan.
I estimate about 30 total presenters that were from outside Korea. This number includes their colleagues and spouses.
In addition there were maybe 20 people who looked like NETs.
The balance were Korean English teachers and academics from Korean universities. |
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halfmanhalfbiscuit
Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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| lifeinkorea wrote: |
Well, let's see. You fly someone to your country to teach kids. You house them and put up a large security deposit. You hire a Korean to be their co-teacher.
Then, you stick the NET in an empty room with boards that are way too high for the students to reach (if they use chairs to stand on, they can only reach one third of it, you only half). You make the Korean teacher do completely unrelated tasks to teaching English and working with the NET.
After all that, you see no improvement in the students. Why is this? Must be the NET!!! |
My take on this:
You fly someone in to teach kids and put up a deposit which will returned in a year.
You don't specify that they should have teaching experience nor do you plan any professional development for them outside of a demo class every 6 months. You provide limited scope for student assessment and are arbitrary about inviting input. You give the teacher 700-800 students who they will see once a week or fortnight.
You assign Korean English teachers to have this teacher as their assistant. You do not have to show any results.
You do not orient the new teacher to the school and do not put them on an equal footing to Korean teachers. You will control their movement, making them attend school when school is out of session.
You wonder why they think you could not organise a piss-up in a brewery and sit back in the belief that they cannot adjust to Korea and that English is difficult and cannot be approached like any other subject.
You take this failed relationship as evidence that subsequent teachers will require further screening and control. |
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Manuel_the_Bandito
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| The people who keep track of testing results know that schools that have NETs are doing better than those that don't. Were it not so we'd all be working in hagwon and unis. Until KETs prove that they can get better results without us we'll still be around the PS system. Based on what I've seen they're still a generation away from achieving this. |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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I recently conducted an interview for High School English teachers in Taegu. Out of the 7 candidates, 5 of them used excellent teaching techniques. They incorporated visual aids, audio aids, and have hands-on activities for the students.
2 of the teachers just lectured.
What's even more interesting was that 5 who used a lot of materials were women, and the 2 who just lectured were men. |
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Demophobe
Joined: 17 May 2004
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| nautilus wrote: |
From what I can see KT's are no way ready to take over teaching their country [sic]english. If because of some sort of [sic]xenephobia/inferiority complex/ inability to accept and work alongside foreigners/mass fabrication of foreigner crime hysteria.. they want to [sic]sieze the [sic]reains at this stage, it will be a backward step for [sic]english education in this country. |
Yeah...and NETs have been doing such a stellar job to date. |
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ytuque
Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Location: I drink therefore I am!
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
I recently conducted an interview for High School English teachers in Taegu. Out of the 7 candidates, 5 of them used excellent teaching techniques. They incorporated visual aids, audio aids, and have hands-on activities for the students.
2 of the teachers just lectured.
What's even more interesting was that 5 who used a lot of materials were women, and the 2 who just lectured were men. |
Are you looking for edutainers or teachers? Shame on the 2 guys for treating English like a serious academic subject. |
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Netz
Joined: 11 Oct 2004
Location: a parallel universe where people and places seem to be the exact opposite of "normal"
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| nautilus wrote: |
The KT's hadn't a clue as to how to teach english when I first arrived at my school.Nothing personal against them, they're fine. Its sounds arrogant, but its just a fact: their lessons were monotonous, boring, dicatotrial. There was no excitement, ingenuity, activities or genuine interraction.And there were dozens of blatant gramar and other errors.
fast forward a year later, and there is virtually not a single thing the KT's do which is not copied from how I do things. The classes are alive, fun, and learning.
I dunno. It just seems that there is a wall of determination to find fault with foreigners here no matter what. This is a massive insult to those of us who have excelled and done our best. Its all so needless, anyhow, because NET's are not threatening the KT's job security in any way.
From what I can see KT's are no way ready to take over teaching their country english. If because of some sort of xenephobia/inferiority complex/ inability to accept and work alongside foreigners/mass fabrication of foreigner crime hysteria.. they want to sieze the reains at this stage, it will be a backward step for english education in this country. |
I couldn't agree more.
This is just more �smoke and mirrors� for the KETs to try and take the focus off of themselves. They're trying harder than ever to do that, because they're being pushed harder than ever to actually do their job, and "teach" English.
Over the years, I've had several opportunities to work with KETs in teacher training classes, and what I've noticed is, that they've gotten better at being bad.
Some years ago, the teachers were gracious, and committed to learning something new, especially the older teachers. They actually listened to the FTs, and tried to incorporate English usage into their own teaching. Sadly, the most recent group I had the burden of teaching, were anything but pleasant to work with. They have convinced themselves collectively as a group, that they know how to teach English (using mostly Korean), better than any NT ever could, and in true Korean style, they all back each other up in their misguided thinking.
Lee Myoung Bak has put the heat on to ramp up public education (pandering to voters), and English education is part of that. The K Govt. has been spending large amounts of money to send KTs on extended training courses that are run through Korean Universities, and from my experience working at one, it is a waste of taxpayer money. The KT's look at is as nothing more than en extended vacation from their actual job duties. I found them to be exceptionally resistant to doing any type of real learning, up to and including their ridiculous arguments that they should not have to do any work outside of the classes they attend. In fact, they actually requested that I use more "pop songs and games". WTF?
The KTs themselves are the real root of the problem, they know it, and we know it. The only people who don't know it are the parents. In the end, the parents will get what they want. That's why all this posturing is occurring, in order for the KTs to convince the parents that NTs are useless criminals (and themselves as well). I doubt though, that the collective Korean mind of the parents can ever be dissuaded from what has been espoused to them over the decades, which is, that Foreigners have the ability to magically touch MinSoo on the forehead, and bestow him with lubricious English language abilities.
So, let the KETs use their time in the typical Korean fashion of "busy working" to appear as if they are actually doing some good, since it's obvious at this point they would rather spend their time on blaming us, than actually learning to do their own jobs.
And for the record, the last KET training I did was just that, the last. I walked out of the classroom one sunny afternoon, after telling them all they were �beyond my ability help", and that I would not be returning.
They (Koreans) are certainly more than a decade away from solving this problem (ELT), if anything, they are actually making backwards progress. In fact I doubt they will ever actually figure it out, but at this point, it's not my concern anymore. |
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nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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Good post.
| Netz wrote: |
They actually listened to the FTs |
Many FT's have experience and qualifications in TEFL. Few of the KT's have that, yet they claim to be better teachers on the basis of their govt. teaching certs (which actually have zero to do with ESL).
In my exp, the KT's are chosen based on their willingness to do the job (few want to). Of them, few have any formal training or qualifications in English itself.
Tragedy is, I have seen numerous Korean teachers in the hagwon system who have far better english than the certified Govt. school teachers. I mean people that have lived abroad and so on. They would make far better co-teachers...but they can't get in because they don't have education certificates.
| Quote: |
| They have convinced themselves collectively as a group, that they know how to teach English (using mostly Korean), better than any NT ever could, and in true Korean style, they all back each other up in their misguided thinking. |
What it is..is a sort of nationalistic reaction to the first few years of experiencing foreigners. Lets face it.. many koreans cannot relate to non-koreans and this has been a painful experience for them. Even worse the realisation that many foreigners are better in the classroom.
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| send KTs on extended training courses that are run through Korean Universities, and from my experience working at one, it is a waste of taxpayer money. |
Agreed. I got the impression that some KT's even signed on for a year just for the fact of a free holiday abroad. Culturally its good for them I think. But 2 weeks in the US does not magically enable you to speak english.
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| in order for the KTs to convince the parents that NTs are useless criminals (and themselves as well). |
Yeah, its quite a formidable self-deception that I've seen. They are using every mind-over-matter mechanism the human brain possesses to convince themselves that all foreign teachers are crims.
| Quote: |
| I doubt though, that the collective Korean mind of the parents can ever be dissuaded from what has been espoused to them over the decades, which is, that Foreigners have the ability to magically touch MinSoo on the forehead, and bestow him with lubricious English language abilities. |
Well in many cases the children do in fact pick up a huge amount of correctly spoken english by a simple osmosis- being around the foreigner in a fun environment. If you notice half the kids repeating to themselves phrases and mimicking stuff-they're actually learning in a very natural way. Compare this to the bored and idle kids propping up desks through the average KT's lectures.
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| it's obvious at this point they would rather spend their time on blaming us, than actually learning to do their own jobs. |
Thing is...being flexible, adaptable and using ingenuity is just not what koreans are good at, -yet its actually what being an ESL teacher absolutely requires. Instead they are clinging to their formulaic confucian authoritarianism in the classrooms.
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| They (Koreans) are certainly more than a decade away from solving this problem (ELT), if anything, they are actually making backwards progress. |
Thing is...they have closed themself off totally from listening to foreign advice...so all thats left is for them to band together and reinforce their lack of knowledge. How very Korean...! |
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storysinger81
Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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| In my exp, the KT's are chosen based on their willingness to do the job (few want to). Of them, few have any formal training or qualifications in English itself. |
Actually, the process for getting an English post at a public school is quite rigorous and difficult. The test is a three-tiered process that involves interviews and demo lessons and such (although I don't think the test necessarily picks the best TEACHERS, hence why a lot of hagwon teachers are so damned good but can't get a job with the gov't). The reason is that school districts accept a very small percentage of test-takers (all the graduates from English Education programs in the last couple years). In Daegu, it's less than 5%, on average. In Seoul, I'd imagine the percentage is even smaller. I think it's ridiculous and cruel of universities to allow so many students to be accepted to programs who never have a chance at getting the job they spend years preparing for--but unis gotta make the money.
Thing is, once you get it, it's considered a very sweet deal--high pay, great job security, guaranteed advancement if you want it and work for it, etc. And since so few people get the job, those who do quickly feel entitled and better than everyone else--meaning they resent the foreign teachers here who get many of the same privledges they do for what they BELIEVE to be a lot less work. This can create hostility.
Just wanted to clarify that the hiring process for a public school English teacher is by no means easy, nor are they even close to scraping the bottom of the barrel for such teachers in this country anytime soon. |
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Xuanzang
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Location: Sadang
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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| storysinger81 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| In my exp, the KT's are chosen based on their willingness to do the job (few want to). Of them, few have any formal training or qualifications in English itself. |
Actually, the process for getting an English post at a public school is quite rigorous and difficult. The test is a three-tiered process that involves interviews and demo lessons and such (although I don't think the test necessarily picks the best TEACHERS, hence why a lot of hagwon teachers are so damned good but can't get a job with the gov't). The reason is that school districts accept a very small percentage of test-takers (all the graduates from English Education programs in the last couple years). In Daegu, it's less than 5%, on average. In Seoul, I'd imagine the percentage is even smaller. I think it's ridiculous and cruel of universities to allow so many students to be accepted to programs who never have a chance at getting the job they spend years preparing for--but unis gotta make the money.
Thing is, once you get it, it's considered a very sweet deal--high pay, great job security, guaranteed advancement if you want it and work for it, etc. And since so few people get the job, those who do quickly feel entitled and better than everyone else--meaning they resent the foreign teachers here who get many of the same privledges they do for what they BELIEVE to be a lot less work. This can create hostility.
Just wanted to clarify that the hiring process for a public school English teacher is by no means easy, nor are they even close to scraping the bottom of the barrel for such teachers in this country anytime soon. |
It does seem closed off to me. I've heard many stories from teacher trainers with these wonderful, young graduates coming out of Sookmyung's course but then they can't get their foot into the classroom. Many times, it's just an ajumma who did a course or shopping trip...uhh I mean study abroad experience who gets plugged into the NSET co-teacher role. It's like the P or VP randomly throws a dart at a staff list and forces that person to be the NSET co-teacher. That's how it seems at my school.
Many hagwon teachers just didn't go to ____ University of Education or gyodae. Or they couldn't pass that PS test and needed money to support themselves. SMOE only wants Korean teachers from Seoul gyodae and limits the amount of applicants from Chungnam or other National University of Educations. |
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