Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Koveras]

Like me, a few of you must have looked into this degree. What do you think? Traditionally authors have been autodidacts. Does having a writing degree automatically void authors of street cred? Or is it acceptable and effective to teach them, like musicians and architects and painters? Do you think it's a good or bad choice for literary hopefuls?

[The Gipkik]

I'm assuming you've read Francine Prose's Reading Like a Writer. She writes a long and persuasive argument on the pro's and cons of getting an MFA. Here's an interview: http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200607u/francine-prose

I would imagine an MFA will make you a highly polished writer, but it also probably blunts a writer's creative imagination in terms of an original and idiosyncratic world view and an unselfconscious capacity to tell a good story. I'm almost always disappointed by writers who've gone the MFA route. The writing is sophisticated, edgy, elaborate, and intellectually demanding, but it's so often just a lousy story. Still, like Prose says, an MFA gives a writer a year of concentrated effort with a supportive and intellectually demanding peer group. For some writers, it is absolutely essential.

[blurgalurgalurga]

Can creative writing be taught? Many say it cannot.

"This skepticism is widely shared, and one way for creative-writing programs to handle it is simply to concede the point. The University of Iowa Writers� Workshop is the most renowned creative-writing program in the world. Sixteen Pulitzer Prize winners and three recent Poet Laureates are graduates of the program. But the school�s official position is that the school had nothing to do with it. �The fact that the Workshop can claim as alumni nationally and internationally prominent poets, novelists, and short story writers is, we believe, more the result of what they brought here than of what they gained from us,� the Iowa Web site explains. Iowa merely admits people who are really good at writing; it puts them up for two years; and then, like the Wizard of Oz, it gives them a diploma. �We continue to look for the most promising talent in the country,� the school says, �in our conviction that writing cannot be taught but that writers can be encouraged.�

Read more: http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/atlarge/2009/06/08/090608crat_atlarge_menand#ixzz0YKjCmuUd
Great article summarizing the history of creative writing departments, writers' workshops, and similarly relevant issues.

[VanIslander]

unless you wanna use it to teach in a college.... take the money and TIME you would have spent on the program and write a book! don't even think of whether a publisher will want to buy it - focus on the craft and treat it as a learning experience. worst case scenario is you self-publish it cheaply and send a copy to friends or family, like the product of a hobby. just finishing a book, actually writing it, gets respect from those one knows, especially since most won't read it anyways so don't worry about how good it'll be

as one famous writer once put it: write the truth into every fiction, speak the gut through every mouth, and the page will be alive and worthwhile

[Moldy Rutabaga]

I studied at UNLV, and the English department there has quite a large contingent of Creative Writing people. Some were nice, some were posers with giant attitudes because of their art.

I'm not the romantic type who thinks that poets and writers are only born and never made. Certainly, there are creative types who would be better off finding a job which gives them free time to write and develop their craft alone, but I think an MFA is useful for comparing your work to others and receiving feedback and support. MFA students read lots of books-- just like most published authors in history did. If nothing else, it brings a lot of contacts in a small and competitive industry.

Having said all that, I'm not sure what you do with an MFA other than writing. It may not get you into a doctorate program. There was some hostility between the Lit and Creative Writing people, as the Lit people tended to look down on the MFA's less academically rigorous program.

But I think the program is fun. What's wrong with fun sometimes?

[morrisonhotel]

[.38 Special]

A lot of people quibble about whether writing is a skill and not a talent, and therefore may or may not be taught. There are those people, and then there are the people who actually did study writing at the university.

Writing is like singing. You can get coached, you can get feedback, and you can even technically master the skill of singing. But if you haven't got talent then you're boned. Or a music teacher. Which is still boned in my book.

Writing is the same way. It is a skill to be technically mastered. Grammar, style, voice, etc., are all skills learned in English classes. Applying those skills to your writing is what happens in Workshops. But writing is a talent, just like singing. And just like singing, the few and the lucky can make a true career out of it. For everyone else, it pays very poorly.

I have no talent, nor did I care enough to gain technical mastery, so take that for what it's worth. But I can tell you this: You will not benefit without a really great program that will instill discipline into you. That was the problem at my university, no one cared. But oh well...

Do the MFA if you are really passionate and dedicated to writing. If not, you'll just be another asshat with huge debt for a useless degree, just like me

[.38 Special]

[.38 Special]

[what the thunder said]

I kind of have to disagree with those saying that you can't be taught how to write. I love writing and have definitely benefited from my great writing professors. They helped me clear through all the junk in my work to find a clearer, more precise vision.

But I don't know what you guys are talking about in terms of wasting tons of money--a lot of writing programs ensure that their students aren't spending a good deal. You can be a TA or something.

[Koveras]

I don't have the single-mindedness to write a novel in the way VanIslander recommends, and I don't know if that's something the discipline of an MFA could rectify. I hope it could, but maybe it's a character flaw that prevents me.

I'm mainly looking at two year programs in fiction, ones with strong financial support. I can't say if I'd prefer an 'experimental' or more 'conventional' program - I'm not even sure what the terms mean nowadays. I assume it's no longer considered avant garde to write about neocolonialism and social justice - maybe now it's all about being transgendered? Who knows. I'll apply to UBC and four or five schools stateside; one top-ten program like UI or UCI, then more realistic options. Any suggestions? Thanks for the advice thus far.

[morrisonhotel]

Are you only considering US universities? If not, how about the University of Glasgow's M. Litt. in Creative Writing? Nearly every major Scottish writer (and a fair few other British writers) of the last few decades has graduated from that degree program.

[Moldy Rutabaga]

Las Vegas is a nasty place to live, but the MFA students at UNLV are a pretty close-knit bunch, and the financial support is adequate (they fund Canadians). UBC is a good university, but Vancouver is a very expensive place to live.

There are autodictats, but I think people who are already good writers benefit from MFA programs. I would also be realistic and look at practical training for a career, whether it be teaching or technical writing. What do Chaucer, Shakespeare, Hawthorne, and T.S. Eliot have in common? They had day jobs!

[DrugstoreCowgirl]

I REALLY wanted to get a MFA in Creative Writing but there's not much you can do with that degree when you're done. My suggestion would be to try to take some writing classes and read a lot of books on writing. A lot of authors never majored in CW. You can be just as good of a writer if you practice a lot and read a lot.

[Koveras]