Korean Job Discussion Forums

[mrwright]

I am looking at the international schools. But I have a non-teaching wife and a daughter. Apparently, that can put a teacher out of the running for many jobs. Not sure if I would make enough money teaching esl in Korea to support them either. One just hears that Korea is the best asian country to make and save money.

[TheUrbanMyth]

[Manuel_the_Bandito]

It's not that bad at all if you get a school that cares, if you've adapted to a completely different way of education from the west, if you're good at dealing with naughty pupils trying to ruin a class of 40, if you know how to rub your co-workers the right way, and if you can speak some Korean.

Ergo a lot of people find it quite bad.

[jpotter78]

[ippy]

[outkast_3000]

mrwright,

Well, it's tough to overgeneralize student "types", as I'm sure you've experienced in America that there are some great students, some downright disrespectful and nasty ones, and a whole bunch of students who're quiet enough that barely register a blip on the radar. At any rate, my own personal experience has been quite varied and as far as any broad underlying generalizations I can make it's that your co-teacher(s) might very well determine the enjoyment of your experience. I'll assume first that you're looking into public schools, as that's all I've taught plus a part-time unigwon on the side.

Basically, my first placement - where I lasted all of 6 months - was in Jeollabuk-do with EPIK. I rotated between 6 schools over the course of the week, with rarely a teacher present by my side. It was a mix of middle schools and public schools. It was chaotic. The students couldn't understand what it was I wanted them to do, and simply lost focus/interest, and I don't blame them. Of the 6 schools, the most successful classes I had were the ones that had an engaged co-teacher present - not necessarily to punish and discipline, but simply to translate some of the instructions I was giving.

My second placement was out in Namyangju with GEPIK at the elementary level, where I didn't have to rotate around to different schools. I had one classroom, one co-teacher, and that was it. Co-teacher was a great guy, really nice and understanding, but...and I hate saying it, but he was a terrible teacher. He was pretty pre-occupied with "side business" - I think he was into publishing textbooks on the side. In any case, the kids were always pretty well behaved since he was always there and we really co-taught. However, he just wasn't very creative or interested in doing things beyond the textbook. It was an easy year that flew by without stress, except I felt like it was also a wasted year in that I didn't develop at all as a teacher. I had no hassles from him, and he kept the administration at bay and protected my interests and vouched for longer vacation time/no "seat warming". Needless to say, on a personal level, he was my best co-teacher, but it was a stagnant environment that had to change.

My third and present placement, is in a high school with GEPIK up in the northern area. Since it's a high school, all the english teachers speak pretty fluent english, and it's been a lot less alienating at the school in that regard. I have 4 co-teachers here, and all have been engaged in the class. Basically, the one bad experience I've had here was a substitute co-teacher who had nothing at stake in the class, and pretty much checked herself out in the mirror the full 50 minutes and chatted it up with students - if she wasn't text messaging. The classes with the substitute were the worst - I couldn't care less about her, but the students just didn't take me or what I was teaching seriously. And why would they, when the co-teacher was giving the symbolic middle finger to me. Those exact same classes with this substitute teacher pulled a direct 180 when the regular teacher returned. Only thing at this school is I don't have someone to vouch for me like I did in Namyangju and no one's been in my corner when I've complained about seat warming. But otherwise, with disciplinary matters with students, I'm 100% supported. I've had students write me 3 page essays, in Korean mind you, that had to be signed by the principal and homeroom teachers and their parents. The students always try to negotiate punishments, but my co-teachers have never wavered and the punishments have always stood. In fact, this past weekend I took a girl's phone for the weekend after a Friday class in which she was text messaging. The girl complained of course to my co-teacher, begged, pleaded, cried and my co-teacher just kind of shrugged her shoulders with a "I can't do anything about it".

I've written quite a bit there, but I guess all I'm trying to illustrate is that how "bad" or "good" your students are is largely dependent on the kind of co-teacher you get - if you're at a public school that is. I don't think my experiences are the general case, but I don't think it's particularly unique either. The things that might be most frustrating might lie outside the sphere of the classroom, and might have to do with the bureaucracy of the school and other possible "cultural differences".

If I had to compare with the students I taught in Toronto, the Korean students are no better, nor are they worse. The cultural divide can be astounding at times, and you've got to approach them differently. The school system itself is completely different and you have to take that into account as well.

Anyhow, I've rambled on quite a bit. Best to you.

[DrugstoreCowgirl]

It's not bad here, most of the time I'm very happy with my school and the job (although I don't feel as if I'm making a real difference most of the time). If you get a crappy school, you'll probably dislike Korea but if you get a decent one it can be a good place. Most of my frustrations come from the Korean bureaucracy than the job itself.

[mrwright]

But what about Korea itself? I have read some horrible, horrible stuff about the Korean people on this forum. If it had just been a few times, I could chalk that up to some ingnorant, racist people projecting their displeasure onto the "foriegn" people they find themselves surrounded with. But these complaints have been thorough, severe and plentiful. How does this square with you? They are characterized as grumpy, unhappy, xenophobic and all around nasty folks. This can't be right, can it? Obviously, regardless of your opinion on this, we are speaking in generalities. I want your overall appraisal, not about how your co-worker is the best, or worst, human on the planet, so thereby disproving someone else's conclusion. I'm not asking for the exceptions. What's the rule? Thx.

[Captain Obvious]

[some waygug-in]

The truth is it's not as bad as all that. People come on to this forum to vent and whine, relieve stress because they may feel isolated and have no one to talk to about things. So, it's not surprising that a lot of things get blown out of proportion.
I am one of them.

That being said, I'm not saying there aren't bad aspects to life in Korea, just that you should take things you read on here with a grain or two of salt.

[mrwright]

Good point Capt. Obvious. Now that you mention it! I guess your name is appropriate. I, indeed, do have issues with American people and culture, even though I am one, and that is a factor, aside for my affinity and love of other cultures, in my departure. What you and waygug-in say makes perfect sense. I knew it couldn't be right. Every people and culture have their pros and cons, and no where is perfect. We are all human, after all. Its just a matter of picking your poison, I suppose. But to a noob just reading about teaching in Korea for the first time it would not be unreasonable to conclude that it must be the seventh-level of hell. I'm glad we cleared that up!

[Captain Obvious]

[outkast_3000]

mrwright

I'm not sure if you were referring to me in particular when you mentioned not wanting to hear personal stories disproving other peoples' conclusions, but that certainly wasn't the point. I was just trying to illustrate that different people have been dealt different hands, some have lucked out with good schools, and others have not. You could get lucky with a good co-teacher, or you could get screwed. That would be "the rule"...that your workplace satisfaction here will be determined by the academic bureaucracy you submit yourself to. I mentioned that my situation wasn't the rule, nor was it an exception - I'd speculate that the vast majority of us out here have minor to middle of the road quibbles with our workplace, but haven't had it so ridiculously bad that we've jumped ship, and have found it tolerable enough to renew our contracts at the end of the year. Some have had it miserably bad out here as well, and some have had it terrifyingly good.

At any rate, for some reason I thought you wanted information on the workplace situation here. If you want to know about "Korea itself"? Like something of a banal "overall appraisal", I could give it you you, but it'd be a personal appraisal, which might be construed by you as me simply trying to "disprove someone else's conclusion". So in fact, I'm not quite sure what to say. I'd tell you that in general, I've had a pretty positive time out here, and that as far as the "unhappy, xenophobic and all around nasty" Korean that's projected from these forums, I've yet to meet "that" dude or gal. Well, maybe the couple of old men who told my group of friends to "shut up" because our English was "too loud" might qualify. But for some reason, I simply chalked it up to individual ignorance instead of projecting that onto every person on the peninsula. But if that's the kind of generalizing you want, then so be it. Every goddamn Korean hates hearing groups of foreigners speak English, and they'll let you know about it too.

Sorry for being snarky. But I just found it amusing that you'd want a general appraisal from people - and they can only speak from personal experience - then tell them that their personal experience isn't general enough, or that they're simply trying to disprove other people. I think the fact that there are currents and counter-currents in various opinions of Korea show that it's too dynamic of a place to be streamlined into a single narrative.

As for the oodles of negativity spewing out of these forums? Well, there's a ton to complain about! Is there racism out here? Of course. Are there attitudes and values here that run against what you know and believe to be true from your own positionality as an American/Canadian/Australian/South African/Brit/etc.? Absolutely. Are there hardcore nationalists who believe in the purity of Korean "blood" and are stubborn as mules in defending "their" country and "their" people? Yup. Are any of these "issues" in your face 24/7 that tug at every fibre of your being and consciousness making it impossible to breathe or experience any glimmer of joy? I'm sure some would say "for freaking sure!", and that's totally valid. But for the majority of us, I just don't believe that to be the case. Should any of this stop you from exploring this country? Just depends on what floats your boat and what you're able to tolerate (how's THAT for general? haha).

Cheers.

[hagwonnewbie]

[ippy]

one of the big things about korea is that its not uniform. On the JET programme for example, people can be on crappy placements and they can be on nice ones, but the disparity between the two isnt ever really that wide. The extreme outliers are exactly that: extreme outliers.

Korea seems much more like a crap shoot if i go by what people have said on here and elsewhere. But take it with a pinch of salt. In fact it was because one of my friends told me to stop being so bloody melodramatic and that his time in korea was WAY better than his time in japan that i finally balanced the worries i had from reading threads like the contract thread and peoples horror stories about hagwon owners screwing them over, that i finally decided to come here. It SEEMS like a crap shoot is maybe what im saying

As it happens i have a great and helpful coteacher, a lovely school, great students, and a really sweet contract. The conditions here are WAY better than what i had on JET in fact Where i live though is NOWHERE NEAR as comfortable (in terms of creature comforts, easy shopping, and diverse products), as i had in japan. Which of course has its benefits since this time around its about making the cash i failed to save on JET in order to get on my actual career ladder. In truth i would probably happily live in japan for the rest of my life, but as far as korea goes, it feels already like its somewhere id only be happy to live in so far as the job gives me personal satisfaction. This of course is particular to me what with ESID and all But i cant really see myself living here for longer than a few years (unless i accidentally tripped and fell face first into a wife and kid :p)

Bear in mind though, im effectively a countryside NET, i havent really seen a foreigner community to even begin networking with, and ive seen only one big city (and its kinda crappy). Lucky i have friends in japan and a nice long holiday in february to keep my sanity.