|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
scotty12347
Joined: 16 Sep 2009
|
 Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 5:38 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| djz wrote: |
| scotty12347 wrote: |
So if you break the rules, but dont get caught, its not cheating?
What if im playing football, and i decide to pick the ball up and put it under my shirt, i then go and dump the ball in the net and score for my team.
By your reasoning, its not cheating if the ref doesnt see it? |
If you are able to successfully pull that off in a World Cup match or even a local soccer club game you are a genius not a cheater.
This is the highest level of the game. Stuff like handball should be called for. In a UEFA match there would've been a ref on the goal line who would've seen the handball. Why can't World Cup matches have it? Or just a ref watching the game on TV with a two-way radio?
Would you agree that Ryan Howard is a cheater because he didn't touch home plate DURING THE WORLD SERIES and his run still counted? Is Derek Jeter a cheater because Jeffery Maier pulled his ball over the fence, giving the Yankees a tie in Game 1 of the ALCS? No. This is entirely on the umps. It's not the players' job point out the referees' mistakes. |
I agree with you that the onus is on the refereee to stop it obviously, but it makes no difference to the fact that Henry cheated. I'd just like to say that i have a completely unbiased view as i dont care for international football and im not attached to ireland in any way.
The handball thing i described is exactly the same thing that Henry did in that i would have been breaking the laws of the game and using an illegal move
By those rules, its cheating, simple as.
Thats not to say that i wouldnt have done it myself for my club in the same situation, i would gladly be labelled a cheat if it got my team into the European cup final.
Also, what you say about the referee on the goal-line is wrong. In a recent UEFA match they were trialling the system, and an incident happened in the box, right in front of both the normal ref and the goal-line official. Between them they managed to have a conversation and come to the conclusion to card a player that was totally uninvolved. It was the wrong decision and of course, the card was rescinded.
With regards to the other sports incidents you listed, i couldnt really comment as i dont the rules and whatnot, but for the touching home plate one, if the run was still awarded then no, it wasnt cheating, because he didnt commit an illegal move. This incident doesnt relate to a handball in football, its not the same issue, its the equivalent of a goal being given even when the ball didnt quite go over the line.
The example i gave in my previous post is regarding the exact same instance of rule breaking as in the Henry incident, do you consider it cheating or not? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Spike
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Seoul
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 6:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
For the last time, Henry didn't cheat... the ref missed the call and that is that.
Get over it already. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
scotty12347
Joined: 16 Sep 2009
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 6:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Spike wrote: |
For the last time, Henry didn't cheat... the ref missed the call and that is that.
Get over it already. |
How is Henry handballing it in the box (an offence according to the rules of the game) not cheating!?
definition of cheating:
S: (n) cheat, cheating (a deception for profit to yourself)
# S: (adj) cheating, dirty, foul, unsporting, unsportsmanlike (violating accepted standards or rules) "a dirty fighter"; "used foul means to gain power"; "a nasty unsporting serve"; "fined for unsportsmanlike behavior"
I give up. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
djz
Joined: 17 Jul 2009
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 4:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| scotty12347 wrote: |
I agree with you that the onus is on the refereee to stop it obviously, but it makes no difference to the fact that Henry cheated. I'd just like to say that i have a completely unbiased view as i dont care for international football and im not attached to ireland in any way.
The handball thing i described is exactly the same thing that Henry did in that i would have been breaking the laws of the game and using an illegal move
By those rules, its cheating, simple as.
Thats not to say that i wouldnt have done it myself for my club in the same situation, i would gladly be labelled a cheat if it got my team into the European cup final.
Also, what you say about the referee on the goal-line is wrong. In a recent UEFA match they were trialling the system, and an incident happened in the box, right in front of both the normal ref and the goal-line official. Between them they managed to have a conversation and come to the conclusion to card a player that was totally uninvolved. It was the wrong decision and of course, the card was rescinded.
With regards to the other sports incidents you listed, i couldnt really comment as i dont the rules and whatnot, but for the touching home plate one, if the run was still awarded then no, it wasnt cheating, because he didnt commit an illegal move. This incident doesnt relate to a handball in football, its not the same issue, its the equivalent of a goal being given even when the ball didnt quite go over the line.
The example i gave in my previous post is regarding the exact same instance of rule breaking as in the Henry incident, do you consider it cheating or not? |
The example of hiding the ball in your shirt is cheating because it is a deliberate violation of the rules. However, moving your hands around in soccer isn't really something you can control 100% of the time and incidental handball does occur. I don't think what Henry was deliberately dishonest, and therefore it wasn't cheating. For it to be cheating there has to be some intent to deceive. Henry's movement wasn't deceptive. It was a reflexive move, and it should have been called for.
The incident with the UEFA refs just shows how blind they are and proves that there should be another official watching the game on TV, with a two-way radio. It wouldn't slow the game down at all.
Not touching home plate is a form of cheating by your definition. Usually the catcher is blocking home plate. If you slide and don't have to touch the plate that makes the catcher's job infinitely harder.
I guess a better analogy would be running outside of the basepaths, which is an illegal move. If you can pull it off then you deserve whatever base you take. There are officials watching for a reason. If they're not going to call fouls and just let the players' play they should be out of jobs. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
scotty12347
Joined: 16 Sep 2009
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 8:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Well we're just going to have to agree to disagree, i've been watching and playing football all of my life and have come across a wide range of opinions and experiences and i can tell you with absolute certainty that what happens in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZBW5MoMpPU&feature=related
would be (and is) regarded as a deliberate handball by the vast majority of European fans and players, im not sure if incidents are judged with more leniency in America though.
There has been a massive divide in France over the incident, some choose to simply celebrate the fact that they got through whereas others feel "shamed" over what Henry did.
Have a look here, its a good read and quite a revelation:
http://sports.yahoo.com/soccer/news?slug=ap-johnleicester-112409&prov=ap&type=lgns
Theres nothing more i can say to support my view. Do you still not think its deliberate? If you dont, thats fair enough, just a difference of opinions.
At the end of it all, i still have a lot of respect for Henry because he's a great footballer, and if i was in the same position i would have done the exact same thing for my team. I would definitely expect and accept the criticism though, but im pretty callous when it comes to football! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mithrae
Joined: 22 Jul 2009
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 6:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
Adults, of any nationality, who get excited over sports events are beyond my understanding. How old are we here? Twelve?
Your millionaire ball kicker person cheated our millionaire ball kicker person. Ridiculous. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
andrewchon
Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Location: Back in Oz. Living in ISIS Aust.
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Sports stars, like it or not, are role models for children, you know.
Do you want your children to think that it's OK to scratch his balls in public? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
scotty12347
Joined: 16 Sep 2009
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Mithrae wrote: |
Adults, of any nationality, who get excited over sports events are beyond my understanding. How old are we here? Twelve?
Your millionaire ball kicker person cheated our millionaire ball kicker person. Ridiculous. |
So let me get this straight, people who get excited over sports events are immature and ridiculous, yet you came into a thread that you have no interest in just to slag off the people that the thread is relevant to?
Good going there Mithrae. You're a shining beacon of what sports fan should really be like... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
